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Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 6.0

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He was quite fond of the drink. It was the drink that killed him.

How awful. He was an alcoholic?

No, he was hit by a Guinness truck.
 
What about people who down 12 beers, stay fully sober for 5 days then drink 12 beers and repeat.

You can't really say they are physically dependent because most of the time there is no alcohol in their system so how can they say they are withdrawing when they stop drinking altogether?

I mean if they can go 5 days without drinking how can withdrawal be a problem? Maybe purely psychological? This has always confused me.
 
RecoveringPothead said:
What about people who down 12 beers, stay fully sober for 5 days then drink 12 beers and repeat.

You can't really say they are physically dependent because most of the time there is no alcohol in their system so how can they say they are withdrawing when they stop drinking altogether?

I mean if they can go 5 days without drinking how can withdrawal be a problem? Maybe purely psychological? This has always confused me.
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I think withdrawal is overstated, you have to be drinking a really good bit for this to happen. Like more than 8 units of alcohol every night regularly.

What your describing is binge drinking which can be worse than maintenance drinking in terms of your brain. Supposedly it can be as bad as getting tackled regularly. The liver is actually a lot more regenerative than people think, I mean think about it the people with end stage cirrhosis have been drinking large amounts of alcohol for decades everyday.
 
SilverFeniks said:
If I want a Drs appt I have to wait 6-8 weeks and try to get a day off (difficult) .. and I'm super nervous on the phone so I've never been able to call in. Never been able to be honest with Docs, formed the habit of lying for avoidance at an early age. I want to overcome it but it's as difficult as willing sobriety.

Had some disturbing thoughts about alcohol lately. Saw my family this weekend so naturally I drank even more than normal.
Looks like next week I'm gonna be bar-hopping in the big city, or else getting tanked in my hotel room. If I can control my urges to escalate this week I guess that will be victory enough.
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You're right to aim for the 'little victories' as you put it, Rome wasn't built in a day. Your post just communicated a lot of pain with regards to your relationship with alcohol.

If it's causing you as much trouble as you suggested it was, I would strongly recommend going to the doctor, even if it is difficult. Why will it take 6-8 weeks? That's mad! I know being honest with doctors is difficult for some people but I would urge you to make the appointment. It really is as simple as saying the words 'I think I have a drink problem', not easy necessarily but simple. If you make the appointment and go to it then the words will come out.

If you choose not to do that then good luck, there are plenty of other ways of helping to reduce consumption. I myself am currently fighting a bit of a battle with alcohol, I'm down to about 5 UK units a day from 30 at the beginning of the year but I've only mannaged to get one or two alcohol free days in the last 9 months. I think I was in denial about the extent of my drinking for quite a while. Set myself up for an alcohol free day yesterday, went out for a bike ride and ached like fuck afterwards, used it as an excuse to drink....

It's only a small amount but it's the psychological reliance on having those couple of drinks there every day which is a concern for me.
 
RecoveringPothead said:
What about people who down 12 beers, stay fully sober for 5 days then drink 12 beers and repeat.

You can't really say they are physically dependent because most of the time there is no alcohol in their system so how can they say they are withdrawing when they stop drinking altogether?

I mean if they can go 5 days without drinking how can withdrawal be a problem? Maybe purely psychological? This has always confused me.
Click to expand...

They're the most common type of alcoholic or the type that's called high functioning or the type that will binge on alcohol, stop for a bit, and then binge again but they're not physically addicted to alcohol and do not get withdrawals.

Also if the person binge drinks it can be a slipper slope from doing this to eventually becoming an alcoholic.

Alcoholism isn't about how often you drink, but how you drink. If you lose control when you drink, or continually drink more than you plan/want to, these are warning signs.

Most of us here, if we had found a way to control our intake or stick to rules and self-imposed limits, we wouldn't be here.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
They're the most common type of alcoholic or the type that's called high functioning or the type that will binge on alcohol, stop for a bit, and then binge again but they're not physically addicted to alcohol and do not get withdrawals.

Also if the person binge drinks it can be a slipper slope from doing this to eventually becoming an alcoholic.

Alcoholism isn't about how often you drink, but how you drink. If you lose control when you drink, or continually drink more than you plan/want to, these are warning signs.

Most of us here, if we had found a way to control our intake or stick to rules and self-imposed limits, we wouldn't be here.
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Well said, I tell myself today I am not having a drink. Then I cave and have one drink... a couple of hours later I'm on my 6th. Sad times. Especially when you prolong periods between eating to maximise the absorption. Sigh :( But in an effort to curb my hate of what i am becoming, at least I eat healthy :)
 
noone1 said:
I think withdrawal is overstated, you have to be drinking a really good bit for this to happen. Like more than 8 units of alcohol every night regularly.
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That isn't really my experience at all. It seems that after you cross some kind of threshold, any type of use causes some kind of withdrawal. I know if I had even two or three beers tonight I would feel like garbage in the morning. So I am not going to do that. Also, many of us around here on BL have had poly-substance addictions. I sure as fuck do. I was thinking in a meeting today about how many of us 30 and younger identify as "alcoholic addicts". It just seems that nowadays that most addicts are going to at least have some type of access to different substances. Its just the way it is. I believe that this makes us more susceptible to withdrawal.. especially if you have used other gabergenics.

And then of course as I am thinking this during my morning meeting (yeah, right now I am trying to hit two a day.. I don't care what anybody else thinks of that.. its what I gotta do), an old timer shares about how he is thankful that the "drug scene wasn't as big back then compared to today". Funny how that works. Its almost like my ultra liberal addict self still shares many similarities with a conservative, gun owning, bearded biker dude then I thought. ;)

What your describing is binge drinking which can be worse than maintenance drinking in terms of your brain. Supposedly it can be as bad as getting tackled regularly. The liver is actually a lot more regenerative than people think, I mean think about it the people with end stage cirrhosis have been drinking large amounts of alcohol for decades everyday.
Click to expand...

Yup. My liver still checks out normal somehow. And yes, binge drinking is likely worse then maintenance drinking. I was more of a maintenance drinker myself, however I have started binging occasionally as well. That has to stop right fucking now.

Also, a large amount of my friends drink at levels that are medically dangerous. Society itself does. Americans in particular have a really weird relationship with alcohol. We really like to turn it into an almost forbidden fruit which for people like me makes it more tempting. Our puritanical roots also come into play and I think that the Alcohol Industry knows this, which is why they sometimes try to portray drinking as rebellious (and we a are a country formed via rebellion).

Anyways, I have 6 days today. Sleep sucks but overall I feel better. I have no idea how I am getting off so light. Its hard as hell and I need tons of help, but I am very thankful that I am able to at least function and go about my day during this withdrawal period (which really feels as if the physical stuff is ending, but I know what comes next and it ain't pretty.)


Also, as for Doctors, while it sucks to do, it is important to be honest and acknowledge you are an alcoholic and or addict (if you have such problems). Why? Because its your life and you need to try to be as healthy as possible. This includes working with your Doctor (if you are lucky enough to have insurance of course.)
 
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^For myself, I also can have only 3or4 drinks and feel diff. the next day.(and unlike normal people complaining of a headache, my whole personality changes...wierd) The days of drinking all night, coming home, taking a shower and going to work are looong gone. Which makes me think that a withdrawl is a very subjective term. There's some info on HAMM website(they promote resposible drinking for alcoholics vs. abstanence and safe quiting techniques) that I read awhile ago about how you can get a hangover from drinking one beer. It all depends on how bad of a drinker you are, they also state that your brain gets kind of trained on how to act in the presence of any amount of alcohol on board(thats why hard alcoholics get drunk on a couple of sips)I know that for myself I feel alcohol right after that first sip of beer...but still can drink for days. I'm also a poly-addict and it seems to me like alcohol is always a catalyst in my countless relapses with drugs. I have been to alot of meetings but just never quite felt like I fit in at any of them, because of a poly-addict issue. Not knocking them but just didn't work for me...maybe I wasn't working it idk. I'm over 30 but never identified with the oldtimers there. Or the kids that were there b/c their mom made them go. I feel they just don't understand that aspect of addiction. Another issue that I very recently noticed that I never had before is that I have nightsweats after I drink for like a week, longer, if I drink more. In this country if you have more than 4 drinks in a single setting you are binging. I must have binged for one third of my town in a single weekend.HA!
Congrats on your 6 days Phactor. Yeah, I don't know how north you are, I'm by Randhurst mall.I don't know if you read my earlier post.For me it's been 5 days totally clean. Court in two days...damn.
Later man.
 
phactor said:
That isn't really my experience at all. It seems that after you cross some kind of threshold, any type of use causes some kind of withdrawal. I know if I had even two or three beers tonight I would feel like garbage in the morning. So I am not going to do that. Also, many of us around here on BL have had poly-substance addictions. I sure as fuck do. I was thinking in a meeting today about how many of us 30 and younger identify as "alcoholic addicts". It just seems that nowadays that most addicts are going to at least have some type of access to different substances. Its just the way it is. I believe that this makes us more susceptible to withdrawal.. especially if you have used other gabergenics.

And then of course as I am thinking this during my morning meeting (yeah, right now I am trying to hit two a day.. I don't care what anybody else thinks of that.. its what I gotta do), an old timer shares about how he is thankful that the "drug scene wasn't as big back then compared to today". Funny how that works. Its almost like my ultra liberal addict self still shares many similarities with a conservative, gun owning, bearded biker dude then I thought. ;)



Yup. My liver still checks out normal somehow. And yes, binge drinking is likely worse then maintenance drinking. I was more of a maintenance drinker myself, however I have started binging occasionally as well. That has to stop right fucking now.

Also, a large amount of my friends drink at levels that are medically dangerous. Society itself does. Americans in particular have a really weird relationship with alcohol. We really like to turn it into an almost forbidden fruit which for people like me makes it more tempting. Our puritanical roots also come into play and I think that the Alcohol Industry knows this, which is why they sometimes try to portray drinking as rebellious (and we a are a country formed via rebellion).

Anyways, I have 6 days today. Sleep sucks but overall I feel better. I have no idea how I am getting off so light. Its hard as hell and I need tons of help, but I am very thankful that I am able to at least function and go about my day during this withdrawal period (which really feels as if the physical stuff is ending, but I know what comes next and it ain't pretty.)


Also, as for Doctors, while it sucks to do, it is important to be honest and acknowledge you are an alcoholic and or addict (if you have such problems). Why? Because its your life and you need to try to be as healthy as possible. This includes working with your Doctor (if you are lucky enough to have insurance of course.)
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...Damn, I had a whole paragraph painstakenly typed up(my typing sucks!) Tried to edit, and did something wierd again like yesterday. I'm close to Randhurst mall btw Phactor, I don't know how far up north you are. But to summarise and save an hour and a half, I just wanted to say that on the contrary, imo, withdrawls are very understated and I completely agree with you about feeling like shit after 3 drinks. I feel the same way.Thats why I feel the term withdrawls very subjective. It's not like it used to be stay out all night, take a shower, go to work. Now my personality changes for the next 3 days and I have nightsweats for a week, depends on how much I drink.
I never really felt like I fit in at AA, cause despite them not saying that it's a safe enviroment I always felt like I could not identify with them and vice-verse. Idk maybe I wasn't working it... When I just got on house arrest 22nd last month, I kind of had to kick it cold turkey(can't ask my girl to go shopping...). She was kind of buying me beer in the begining(like 24x2) but I kind of determined that it's a waste and all that was doing was just teasing me if I can't get properly liquided. HA!
It's been 5 days for me...totally clean.
Court in 2 days...damn! :)
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
They're the most common type of alcoholic or the type that's called high functioning or the type that will binge on alcohol, stop for a bit, and then binge again but they're not physically addicted to alcohol and do not get withdrawals.

Also if the person binge drinks it can be a slipper slope from doing this to eventually becoming an alcoholic.

Alcoholism isn't about how often you drink, but how you drink. If you lose control when you drink, or continually drink more than you plan/want to, these are warning signs.

Most of us here, if we had found a way to control our intake or stick to rules and self-imposed limits, we wouldn't be here.
Click to expand...
I don't know how people drink a 12 pack and still function the next day(or maybe I just forgot). My girlfriend's sisters b/f drinks like that every weekend. 24beers in two days and nothing in between, has been doing that for a while. A couple of weeks ago he went to work Mon. and passed out flat on his face in the middle of a dealership floor. When they brought him to the hospital they determined that he had too much carbon monoxide in his blood, fire dept. checked the whole dealership for leaks and said there were none. I think it was an alcohol related seizure. Btw, he drinks that 12pack in an hour...even I couldn't do that on my best day. Always a 12pack Sat, Sun. Never less, never more, for years. Go figure, I guess that would be a high functioning alcoholic? Imo, that's a drunk. I think there's a diff.
...Damn, I wish I could learn to edit without messing up the whole thread.
 
itchyscratchy said:
It's been 5 days for me...totally clean.
Court in 2 days...damn! :)
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Keep it up! I sent you a PM with my location. I was never a mean drunk, but I become a total asshole when I am hungover. It often startles people because I am pretty sensitive and consider myself pretty compassionate (I am a Social Worker). At first I tried to hide this by saying I was "cranky" in the morning (I am sure I smelt like a craft brewery, I used to sweat IPA. Now, I couldn't even afford that shit). I thought people actually believed that lol. The things we tell ourselves....

Also, that dude probably did have a seizure at work. I had one myself! One of the worst moments in my life. I also traumatized a bunch of co-workers and then later blew them off after I got sober because I was too embarrased. Going to have to work on that later, but trying hard not to beat myself up about it now. Today I just gotta stay clean and that is it. Pretty exicited for my nightly meeting, I got some shit I gotta get out there. Did I mention I tend to thrive in support groups? I have been well conditioned at this point, its the actual "living life" shit that fucks me up.
 
phactor said:
Keep it up! I sent you a PM with my location. I was never a mean drunk, but I become a total asshole when I am hungover. It often startles people because I am pretty sensitive and consider myself pretty compassionate (I am a Social Worker). At first I tried to hide this by saying I was "cranky" in the morning (I am sure I smelt like a craft brewery, I used to sweat IPA. Now, I couldn't even afford that shit). I thought people actually believed that lol. The things we tell ourselves....

Also, that dude probably did have a seizure at work. I had one myself! One of the worst moments in my life. I also traumatized a bunch of co-workers and then later blew them off after I got sober because I was too embarrased. Going to have to work on that later, but trying hard not to beat myself up about it now. Today I just gotta stay clean and that is it. Pretty exicited for my nightly meeting, I got some shit I gotta get out there. Did I mention I tend to thrive in support groups? I have been well conditioned at this point, its the actual "living life" shit that fucks me up.
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Hey Phactor, I got your PM, thanks man, I replied back with a labored paragraph(typing is horrible for me), hit send aaand...nothing! LOL! Checked the box that said "sent" Then I sent you another one and asked for you to let me know if you got it aaand...nothing. So I'm doing something wrong(but it's funny cause I was able to tell this one dude off that was trying to source, I don't know what I was doing that's diff.)
I was never a mean drunk either...but everybody was telling me I'm an annoying retard, then I turn into a mean drunk...eh, they probally had no sense of humor.HA! Sweat IPA...funny...I used to stink like shit too but thought a shower takes care of that.Besides being cranky and having an isatiable urge to drink the next day, I used to get real anxious and agoraphobic(like the whole world knew how much of a fuck up I was last night) to a point of feeling like I had brain damage. Like stuff that you would do any other day with your eyes closed, became real comlicated on that day and for a few days afterwards. I drive a truck locally(used to before this arrest) and that was hell man. Btw, in the county where you are at, they have ZERO policy in regards to any kind of bullshit. They want your time AND money. Glad to hear you are benefiting from meetings..."I thrive in groups..." HA! Of course you're a social worker! Just kidding. I just never felt like I could be completely honest in group, cause no matter how fucked up other stories were, to me I always felt like I was the most fucked up person there. I never told anybody untill here that I used to drink rubbing alcohol for instance..."WHOA!! You did that? WOW! you are a scumbag...me and my husband were drinking too many wine coolers on Sat., that's when we knew we had a problem..."That's the reaction I expected. Idk, maybe I just didn't give meeting a chance in fear of being judged. People say they don't but they kind of do. Anyway, got to go bust out my polyester powder-blue suit with bellbottoms for court.=D Got to show the judge I respect the proceedings.
Later bud, tomm. is day 7 for you, 6 for me.
Take care ppl.
 
itchyscratchy said:
I don't know how people drink a 12 pack and still function the next day(or maybe I just forgot). My girlfriend's sisters b/f drinks like that every weekend. 24beers in two days and nothing in between, has been doing that for a while. A couple of weeks ago he went to work Mon. and passed out flat on his face in the middle of a dealership floor. When they brought him to the hospital they determined that he had too much carbon monoxide in his blood, fire dept. checked the whole dealership for leaks and said there were none. I think it was an alcohol related seizure. Btw, he drinks that 12pack in an hour...even I couldn't do that on my best day. Always a 12pack Sat, Sun. Never less, never more, for years. Go figure, I guess that would be a high functioning alcoholic? Imo, that's a drunk. I think there's a diff.
...Damn, I wish I could learn to edit without messing up the whole thread.
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If he's passing out at work he aint functioning for shit.=D
 
Since I'm too nervous on phone calls and don't have a Doctor I tried logging onto my HMO website hoping to connect electronically ...

"We're sorry, but we are unable to complete your request right now. Please try again later."

Finally summon the courage and dial all the numbers out of desperation, "all offices are closed at this time."

:( another day gone. Already plotting my course of alcoholism for the next two weeks.
Hope for better luck next month...
 
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itchyscratchy said:
I don't know how people drink a 12 pack and still function the next day(or maybe I just forgot). My girlfriend's sisters b/f drinks like that every weekend. 24beers in two days and nothing in between, has been doing that for a while. A couple of weeks ago he went to work Mon. and passed out flat on his face in the middle of a dealership floor. When they brought him to the hospital they determined that he had too much carbon monoxide in his blood, fire dept. checked the whole dealership for leaks and said there were none. I think it was an alcohol related seizure. Btw, he drinks that 12pack in an hour...even I couldn't do that on my best day. Always a 12pack Sat, Sun. Never less, never more, for years. Go figure, I guess that would be a high functioning alcoholic? Imo, that's a drunk. I think there's a diff.
...Damn, I wish I could learn to edit without messing up the whole thread.
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You don't start out drinking that much at once.

The people that do wind up OD'ing and have to go to the hospital to get their stomach pumped, or some die. Or some drink really watered down crappy beer that has a low alcohol content, and they're regular drinkers so they do have a tolerance to the alcohol in it.

When you get to drinking as much as 12 drinks in a night or on the weekend it happens when you have a tolerance, there can be other factors at play as well, and if someone does drink 12 drinks then they're probably already an alcoholic or will become one.

Most people drink normally or have only 1-2 drinks in a night and do not drink more than that.

When I was at my worst with drinking way too much daily I got that way from drinking what I thought were low amounts of alcohol daily like 3-6 drinks-both beer and liquor either shots or mixed drinks, and eventually that barely got me buzzed or drunk, and you have to keep drinking more and more alcohol just to get drunk.

At my worst I was able to function quite well but I was taking classes at a university fulltime, passing them and exams with excellent grades, and working at the time. But I would only start drinking after classes at home alone after my work was done, in the very late afternoon/early evening and stay out drinking way too much in bars or at home alone until late at night. Then I'd go to bed drunk and wake up hungover, drink a strong coffee, have some food, go to classes and work, and then do it all over again. I never drank in the morning or during the start of the day but I know some alcoholics who do or who have.

I did this for a long time and then I did realize I had a problem when I was blacking out. I did not want to completely quit so slowly cut back drinking, and I started to smoke pot instead of drinking; but this was just a substitute addiction and while I was not drinking massive amounts of alcohol daily instead I was smoking pot daily and for about a month my entire life revolved around nothing but getting very stoned when I'd come home from work, and I did eventually start drinking a lot again.

I did wind up starting to drink again but I would binge a lot on weekends, and I'd try to tell myself I wouldn't drink during the week but I started doing that but I did not get totally out of control like I was before but it still was not good.

It was only going to get worse for me so I stopped drinking. I slowly cut back and stopped. I did not get any sort of withdrawals but I was not physically addicted to alcohol. I do not recommend that anyone do this. I only did it because I could not afford treatment, and I did have people suggest that I go to AA/NA but I did not want to go there at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-functioning_alcoholic
 
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PriestTheyCalledHim said:
You don't start out drinking that much at once.

The people that do wind up OD'ing and have to go to the hospital to get their stomach pumped, or some die. Or some drink really watered down crappy beer that has a low alcohol content, and they're regular drinkers so they do have a tolerance to the alcohol in it.

When you get to drinking as much as 12 drinks in a night or on the weekend it happens when you have a tolerance, there can be other factors at play as well, and if someone does drink 12 drinks then they're probably already an alcoholic or will become one.

Most people drink normally or have only 1-2 drinks in a night and do not drink more than that.

When I was at my worst with drinking way too much daily I got that way from drinking what I thought were low amounts of alcohol daily like 3-6 drinks-both beer and liquor either shots or mixed drinks, and eventually that barely got me buzzed or drunk, and you have to keep drinking more and more alcohol just to get drunk.

At my worst I was able to function quite well but I was taking classes at a university fulltime, passing them and exams with excellent grades, and working at the time. But I would only start drinking after classes at home alone after my work was done, in the very late afternoon/early evening and stay out drinking way too much in bars or at home alone until late at night. Then I'd go to bed drunk and wake up hungover, drink a strong coffee, have some food, go to classes and work, and then do it all over again. I never drank in the morning or during the start of the day but I know some alcoholics who do or who have.

I did this for a long time and then I did realize I had a problem when I was blacking out. I did not want to completely quit so slowly cut back drinking, and I started to smoke pot instead of drinking; but this was just a substitute addiction and while I was not drinking massive amounts of alcohol daily instead I was smoking pot daily and for about a month my entire life revolved around nothing but getting very stoned when I'd come home from work, and I did eventually start drinking a lot again.

I did wind up starting to drink again but I would binge a lot on weekends, and I'd try to tell myself I wouldn't drink during the week but I started doing that but I did not get totally out of control like I was before but it still was not good.

It was only going to get worse for me so I stopped drinking. I slowly cut back and stopped. I did not get any sort of withdrawals but I was not physically addicted to alcohol. I do not recommend that anyone do this. I only did it because I could not afford treatment, and I did have people suggest that I go to AA/NA but I did not want to go there at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-functioning_alcoholic
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Good post and informative link. Completely identify with the #1 in the link an completely unidentify with #2.So I guess I'm a "low-functioning" LOL! I've never been able to keep shit together when I start. Nothing! When I start drinkinking, I might as well come to terms that my job is gone, along with everything else I accomplished while abstaining. Luckely my g/f has been miracleously able to glue things together time and time again.(she's sick of it). But yeah, that's why I kind of gave up on meetings cause just like you are a prime example, you were able to somehow keep your shit together and somehow grind it out.And hearing things like that from a whole bunch of people makes me feel like more of a looser than before I went. Idk man, I just don't seem to find that happy center that everybody in AA shares. Does that make sense? Idk, I'm kind of hoping for the day I get bored with getting the same fucked up results stemming from my drinking, while I'm waiting for something different everytime. I think boredom with my own stupidity is my only salvation.
P.S. I'm not putting down AA/NA, I just never found a relief in it. Whatever works.
Take care ppl.
 
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