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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Gibberings CLXIV - I don't Have a Clue if These Numerals are Right I'm Still Drunk

StoneHappyMonday said:
Happy birthday Mental Kenny and yes, I reckon you're spot on about ayahuasca and the rip off merchants in S America. My mate actually complained about his under-strength concoction but it all got washed under the carpet anyway as they had the cops to deal with because of the death.
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Thanks man appreciated. It's also common to be given datura brews instead of p.viridis, it happened to a few people I knew from the Aya forum and as I posted before even in the Vice documentary, Hamilton has a self-proclaimed shaman try to give him datura instead of a DMT containing plant.
 
Mental Kenny said:
Still they got me some new headphones, Sennheiser, good stuff.
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Was gifted a set of those myself a while back - they do sound rather swishy don't they =D

And a happy-happy bidet to you too - have a great day <3

On the datura as part of ayawaska brews thing, that is one of the traditional ingredients in some versions of it. We tend to only think of it as being B Caapi (Yage) and P Viridis (... can't recall the other name for it but know I've had it years back when I was much more into ethnobotanicals) but some versions of ayawaska have dozens of ingredients. It's probably not for us to tell them what their sacred brew is supposed to be made from. However, I wouldn't go near any of the datura-containing versions either myself. Datura has a very long history of shamanic use - whether it's something anybody here would wish to take is neither here nor there really as it's part of their culture not ours. In some areas it is anyway. Tobacco is another ingredient in many ayawaska brews and I wouldn't fancy drinking those either. They also used to use tobacco to make an enema for shamanic purposes in parts of the Amazon region. That doesn't sound like much fun either - wonder why the tourism industry hasn't picked up on that potential money-spinner? My bum's gone woozy just thinking about it 8(
 
^I know all of this, the bad thing is "shamans" giving deliriants like datura but trying to pass them off as p.viridis, that's been the case in that Vice documentary and I've heard the same story from a few people from the Aya forums.

Nobody is telling them what to put in their brews, but trying to pass one plant for another is criminal and potentially lethal.

A combination of B. Caapi and datura is potentially lethal, the bad thing is the paying customer drinking it probably thought he was getting p. viridis.

Most of my own brews weren't textbook Ayauasca anyway as I tended to use Mimosa Hostilis instead of p. viridis for money reasons and cost effectiveness.

I know there are shamans there that use both tobacco and datura as part of the brew, some add frog poison and other stuff. What's important is that this is made clear to the people who are about to drink it.

I know from some guys in the Aya forum, that the "shaman" didn't have any p.viridis at the time so just brewed some datura and told them it was p.viridis thinking they wouldn't notice the difference, this is bad and maybe that's what killed that poor lad.
 
I would agree that if the one is knowingly passed off as the other that's very bad news and was not what I was defending. Was just pointing out that if you ask twenty shamans to make you a pot of ayawaska you'll get twenty different recipes with all sortsa stuff in them. Those that are used to dealing with tourists you'd hope would know better than to substitute one ingredient for another and lie about it or mislead the punters. I'd suggest that tourists should be doing a bit of research before just swilling down whatever they are given ideally - and certainly the companies that run specific ayawaska tours should be making sure that they know what is actually in the stuff they're selling to the punters. It's not like it's a regulated industry with a set recipe that all shamans agree on - if some are deliberately misleading tourists that's just wrong and should not be happening but there's also responsibility for the company or individual to make it clear what it is exactly they want for the reasons mentioned above - ayawaska means different things to different tribes so they're not necessarily lying or misleading if nobody's bothered to check what their particular version actually contains.

I did see that Vice doc with Hamilton but don't recall specifically what the shaman said about the Datura - whether he actually claimed it was P Viridis or not. I'd suspect it could easily have been a translation issue but whatever the case it does go to show that anybody going on these tours - and especially so for those running these tours - should do a bit of basic research first and try to find out what is actually in the stuff they are going to be ingesting is.
 
The shaman I met in the Amazon in Ecuador absolutely refused to even consider the idea of giving a brew to a tourist. He had definite ideas about what the plant(s) was for and it certainly wasn't for making money out of tourists. And yeah, he explained there are about 13 different plants he picks from when he does ayahuasca ceremonies for his own tribe, one of which I think was indeed datura.
 
a chemistry student mate of mine claims to be able to brew ayuascha, is it really specialist or simple?

and happy bday kenny!
 
Boil two plants together - rocket science it ain't. Don't really need to be a chemistry student to brew ayawaska. However, doing some research first is not a bad idea at all - it's pokey stuff by all accounts (I've yet to sample it) and you need to get your amounts and ratios right to get a brew suited to you. Personally I'd want to either make it myself or if from somebody else I'd want to be pretty damn sure they had done the necessary research and not just chucked stuff together and hoped for the best.
 
my moneys just come through, asked at the local headshop if they have any etiz and they said they'd sell me two 1mg pills for a tenner. Fuck that, I've really missed benzos but that aint worth it.
 
I hope you whipped your dick straight out on the counter and told them suck it before taking a piss and leaving. If they're going to actively take the piss then they should expect some urine coming their way.
 
Shambles said:
Boil two plants together - rocket science it ain't. Don't really need to be a chemistry student to brew ayawaska. However, doing some research first is not a bad idea at all - it's pokey stuff by all accounts (I've yet to sample it) and you need to get your amounts and ratios right to get a brew suited to you. Personally I'd want to either make it myself or if from somebody else I'd want to be pretty damn sure they had done the necessary research and not just chucked stuff together and hoped for the best.
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As you mentioned you don't need to be a chemistry student, but you do need to be a fucking hero to get enough of the stuff down and keep it down for long enough for a trip. Ayahuasca is by FAR the worst thing I have ever put in my mouth.
 
omen_owen mk2 said:
As you mentioned you don't need to be a chemistry student, but you do need to be a fucking hero to get enough of the stuff down and keep it down for long enough for a trip. Ayahuasca is by FAR the worst thing I have ever put in my mouth.
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Next best thing is a big dose of oral DMT and take a MAOI, takes alright and is the next best thing and basicly the same :)
 
^ And that's surely saying something 8o

(i have no idea what you may have had in your mouth - i've heard aya is right up there with as bad as it gets though. am not a fan of pukefests which is one thing that's put me off the aya thing in the past with more interest in pharmawaska. was mentioned recently (by MK I do believe) that the various alkaloids present in more traditional brews do flavour the experience quite noticeable which has raised my interest in the traditional route again. would be nice to compare and contrast at some point)

Bob Funkhouse said:
wonder if there's any shop or RC vendors members on BL. Probably an easy job
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It's entirely possible but if there are they would not be allowed to mention it at all or use BL in any way connected to their bizniz. There has been in the past but no idea about these days. Not that I know of anyway.

hexagram said:
... asked at the local headshop if they have any etiz and they said they'd sell me two 1mg pills for a tenner.
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8o8o8o

That is all.

(except for... 8o8o8o)
 
the shop is in a student area and I think they're trying to take advantage of desperate students on comedowns. Their kratom and aMT were reasonably priced however.
 
Does sound a rather speculative price. Ask a tenner and see what the reaction is kinda thing. Head shops charge silly prices for stuff whenever I've seen them (which is not recently I should point out). They always did seem to go in for insane levels of profiteering just cos they order online - presumably from the same places the rest of us do - and most high street punters probably don't (or they'd also be buying online and saving a fortune). It's just taking advantage. The information and "advice" they give out can be utterly atrocious as well at times. Again, only my own experience and some years ago now. I know their hands are a bit legally bound but if they're going to give advice make it accurate rather than just sales pitches ignoring all safety implications in the process. Not a fan of headshops - not as they currently (well, back when I last used one anyway) exist.
 
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