Gibberings CLXIII - Up All Night Shooting Cheese Balls

[ColtDan]

60/70mg of aMT ready to rock early tomorrow morning, its gonna be an even nicer day. will be the 2nd proper time

 

[Chatative]

^^ Sounds lush Dan. Just as all the trees & flowers are starting to bloom, perfect time for going on adventures whilst tripping.

I wasn't really critsizing Raas... we're all allowed our own opinions, as he said he was just throwing another opinion out there... I came back with mine

It's hard to explain, but certain drugs can assist your thought processes rather than creating false ones. Drugs can often reveal things you took for granted. I undoubtedly have such a close connection to my best friend because of all the drug experiences we have gone through together, good & bad...

*edit* - might be feeling early effects of my Kratom... putting my Woodstock Blu-Ray on... saved the last hour for this occasion!

 

[bummer]

Personally I can't imagine, and I mean this without malice, judgement or offence, how anything drug-induced can be real so how can it improve on personal growth? The drugs are making you hallucinate n you are thinking that this is real.
Evey xxxx

Right, first off you don't often hallucinate as such, no pink elephants or whatever.
Think of your brain as a complete jig saw puzzle, psychedelics smash the puzzle and as you come down you have to put it back together.
During this process you can sometimes appreciate the complete picture in a new way.

I consider my 1st trip to be day one of my life. I realized, actually swallowed and comprehended the concept of infinity. Having gained that perspective I find it very hard to be afraid of life. That sense of being grateful to be alive never left me.

Its not always mystical, it can be very personal.

My last trip was very personal. I am very proud and stubborn.
I had a couple of days to myself last year and took a psychedelic on a whim. I was overwhelmed, almost having a panic attack, very nearly took myself to hospital.
Instead I showed up unannounced at a friend's house. I was taken care of, I was like a child and I felt safe and loved.
That, for me was a relation. It really taught me something about my pride, to trust in people and that 'no man is an island'

These are just two examples, and the experiences are so intense words dont do them justice.

But don't take my word for it.
listen to the experts. Psychedelics could've be the way forward for psychiatry, it was their equivalent of the microscope. They were only just begining to scratch the surface of what they could do with them when the 60's brought on media panic and scared off most researchers ( im inclined to think i'm pleased they are on the black market but thats another story )

They are non addictive, some of them are perfectly natural and physically harmless.
They can fuck you up, too but it takes a lot of trips to do lasting damage IMO

 

[ColtDan]

Well said

^^ Sounds lush Dan. Just as all the trees & flowers are starting to bloom, perfect time for going on adventures whilst tripping.

Strangely im yet to find the stuff very trippy at all, very euphoric and beautiful but hardly any tripping, but yeah perfect time to go for a trippy adventure. Wouldnt mind trying some LSD for the first time on an adventure around the countrysid

 

[Chatative]

I tripped hard on my last session. Re-dosing at 2 hours seems to do the trick. I think I am one of the fortunate few for who aMT can be pretty intense visually.

If you have some weed... smoke a joint as you are starting to peak & you should get some good patterning style visuals. Ket works well too. I'm sure I've told you all this before though.

 

[swampdragon]

Hrmpf, I want trippy countryside adventures, tis the perfect weather for it..and I'll be stuck inside an office instead. Thbbpt.

 

[ScotchMist]

I think some of you are being a bit harsh on raas. I understand what he is trying to say n I don't think he is actually trying to be offensive. I think he says stuff without thinking at times n is misunderstood. I don't think he is judging any of you.

Personally I can't imagine, and I mean this without malice, judgement or offence, how anything drug-induced can be real so how can it improve on personal growth? The drugs are making you hallucinate n you are thinking that this is real.

Bear in mind that I've never taken psychedelic drugs so by all means explain it to please n lets have a discussion. But I'm warning anyone who tries to argue in an offensive / derogaratory way will go on ignore.

I'm ignore to this n so this is the opinion I have. I'm interested to hear/read how these drugs aid personal growrh.

And can we stop the rass- bashing please because it's not necessary. The bloke just gave an opinion.

Evey xxxx

Raas is entitled to his opinion, however, as he has never taken LSD so I dont see how he is qualified to judge just how it effects me or anyone else for that matter?

Not so long back he said pretty much the same thing to me when I took some acid, that I was relying on drugs to answer problems in my life.

The point being is that they dont answer them, do they give another perspective, definitely. Are they always useful 100% of the time, no, alot of the time they are, so what my sober mind afterwards decides to do with these thoughts/revelations/conclusions is down to my mind, not the psychedelics.

If you have an infection and the doctor prescribes you antibiotics do you turn them down and say "no ta doc, I want to allow my immune system some personal growth".

Psychs can be a medicine for my mind, its not cheating, its not weak. Its my brain doing the thinking, not the acid.

Psychs arent for everyone, dangerous for some. If used correctly they can work wonders. They can also be alot of fuckin fun to.

 

[Shambles]

Think of your brain as a complete jig saw puzzle, psychedelics smash the puzzle and as you come down you have to put it back together.
During this process you can sometimes appreciate the complete picture in a new way.

This is very true. It's generally not the peak of a trip that brings about change or insight so much as how you put it all together on the way down and in the following days and months (and indeed years). The early stage of a trip breaks down the ego, the middle section allows all kinds of new thoughts and feelings and connections to be made - some are of use, some are seemingly of no use, some are just plain hilarious - then in the final stages you take all of that and integrate it with the returning ego ('ego' in this sense meaning 'sense of self').

It really isn't anything much like you see in films and stuff, Evey. As mentioned, you really don't hallucinate in the way hallucination is portrayed - you almost never see actual things or people or spirits or gods or whatever. You do see colours more intensely and patterns overlaid over your vision but that's about it as far as actually seeing things gets usually. The descriptions of more exotic visual phenomena tend to be more impressions than concrete visions. You might see shadows that suggest a certain shape and your mind will take that observation and run with it - it's seen more in the mind's eye than in actual vision.

Psyches are really just a tool for seeing things differently from the way you otherwise would or could. New perspectives are useful sometimes. It's usually pretty easy to tell what's complete fantasy and what has relevance and practical meaning in your life. There's a lotta hippy-dippy stuff surrounding psychedelic use and I have nothing against it as such, but I do think it gets in the way sometimes and gives a slightly false impression that it's required to have a certain set of beliefs or that there is only one way of using psychedelics "properly".

To me they are invaluable, but I wouldn't expect everybody to get along with them. I do think that's a shame but perhaps those people have other ways of seeing things that are equally as valid. I don't really think there are absolutes in most areas of life. Different approaches can be quite different but equally as valid.

 

[Uncle Robert]

Personally I can't imagine, and I mean this without malice, judgement or offence, how anything drug-induced can be real so how can it improve on personal growth? The drugs are making you hallucinate n you are thinking that this is real.

Imagine you drive along the same stretch of motorway every day. Every day you drive in a straight line and see the same views pass you by. You're familiar with them all. But one day you decide to take the scenic route instead. Winding country roads weaving between rolling hills take you to places you'd never seen before. You see the country in a whole new light. The motorway was such an accepted and customary part of your life that you'd never really thought there might be other ways to go.

You can't take the country road often though. It takes too long and you have a normal life to get on with. When you're next going down the motorway you don't forget the views of the scenic route. You remember what everything looked like, you remember the feel of the road and you remember how you felt during the journey - much like when you take a trip on psychs.

 

[ColtDan]

Beautifully expained scotch, shamby and rob

 

[Raasyvibe]

Hi Evey. Thanks for the kind support, I appreciate that. I felt a couple of remarks were unfair and unnecessarily hostile as I was only responding honestly to ScotchMists post.

Raas is entitled to his opinion, however, as he has never taken LSD so I dont see how he is qualified to judge just how it effects me or anyone else for that matter?

Not so long back he said pretty much the same thing to me when I took some acid, that I was relying on drugs to answer problems in my life.

The point being is that they dont answer them, do they give another perspective, definitely. Are they always useful 100% of the time, no, alot of the time they are, so what my sober mind afterwards decides to do with these thoughts/revelations/conclusions is down to my mind, not the psychedelics.

If you have an infection and the doctor prescribes you antibiotics do you turn them down and say "no ta doc, I want to allow my immune system some personal growth".

Psychs can be a medicine for my mind, its not cheating, its not weak. Its my brain doing the thinking, not the acid.

Psychs arent for everyone, dangerous for some. If used correctly they can work wonders. They can also be alot of fuckin fun to.

Erm, I was serious when I said this:

This is not a personal attack on you. You obviously have valid reason to take acid, or maybe your experience is different to my own...this is just my personal perspective from recent accumulated experience with psych's.

I fully accept that your experience with psych's maybe "different to my own".







As for the psych question:

Yes, the aforementioned responses are true. They offer a different perspective and can bring about fascinating revelations. My argument is we have power in ourselves to find needed knowledge and psych's could therefore be considered unnecessary and potentially dangerous. My concern is that using psych's to progress ourselves could become a distortion to a natural process of personal development.

It's a fascinating subject. And I'm always open to others opinions on it.

 

[swampdragon]

I'd say that psyches act as a catalyst and that, yes, we have power in ourselves to find "needed knowledge", but psyches nudge that along a little bit quicker.

But you do talk a lot of shit, raas.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Raas, I suggest you go to the philosophy thread n start a discussion on it. It is a fascinating subject n would be interesting to see what responses you would receive. I've actually started a thread there, titled "What is Real?" and am sitting back n reading the responses.... fascinating stuff!

You don't have to thank me 'tis the truth. I feel that you get a lot of unnecessary stick, that you don't deserve - as I don't think you say things in malice. You may have way of saying things without tact - or that can come across in a misunderstood way. But don't we all lol

Evey xxxx

 

[bummer]

Yes, the aforementioned responses are true. They offer a different perspective and can bring about fascinating revelations. My argument is we have power in ourselves to find needed knowledge and psych's could therefore be considered unnecessary and potentially dangerous. My concern is that using psych's to progress ourselves could become a distortion to a natural process of personal development.

It's a fascinating subject. And I'm always open to others opinions on it.

This paragraph explains you point of view well IMO.
What psychs do, that we can't do naturally is really break down barriers. Utterly smash them to bits.
Going back to my last trip : Even when it's in my best interests I've always had a huge problem accepting help because of pride and other things. I'm sure youre clever enough to realize that in some ways makes me less of a person, because we are social animals after all.
I'm in my mid 30s - this pattern of thought is deeply ingrained. The psych I took gave me no choice, it stripped away my pride for a few hours. In my mind i needed help and i went and got it.
I don't think a therapist could give me that kind of direct experience of another way of thinking.
If your interested this book is about how that logic was applied in a clinical setting http://www.amazon.co.uk/LSD-Numinous-Groundbreaking-Psychedelic-Unconscious/dp/1594772827

 

[ScotchMist]

Thats cool Raas, however nobody was arguing that myself and others cannot address and resolve issues without drugs. I do on a daily basis.

I and im sure I speak for others know full well that we have the power and capabilities to find growth and knowledge without chemicals.

Whenever this topic arises you come across as anyone using drugs in this manner is, in your words "weak" and "incapable".... Do you not see how that can come across as insulting?


As I said, I still likes ya

 

[alasdairm]

Imagine you drive along the same stretch of motorway every day. Every day you drive in a straight line and see the same views pass you by. You're familiar with them all. But one day you decide to take the scenic route instead. Winding country roads weaving between rolling hills take you to places you'd never seen before. You see the country in a whole new light. The motorway was such an accepted and customary part of your life that you'd never really thought there might be other ways to go.

You can't take the country road often though. It takes too long and you have a normal life to get on with. When you're next going down the motorway you don't forget the views of the scenic route. You remember what everything looked like, you remember the feel of the road and you remember how you felt during the journey - much like when you take a trip on psychs.

nicely put.

alasdair

 

[Raasyvibe]

Raas, I suggest you go to the philosophy thread n start a discussion on it. It is a fascinating subject n would be interesting to see what responses you would receive. I've actually started a thread there, titled "What is Real?" and am sitting back n reading the responses.... fascinating stuff!

You don't have to thank me 'tis the truth. I feel that you get a lot of unnecessary stick, that you don't deserve - as I don't think you say things in malice. You may have way of saying things without tact - or that can come across in a misunderstood way. But don't we all lol

Evey xxxx

I will look at interest at your "what is real?" thread as that is a question very core to my own understanding of everything. (not much is real, besides our choices which bias good/evil and why this choice is so important and carries over to the next life) And yes you're spot on with your depiction of me, I have zero-malice but am useless with tact lol

Thats cool Raas, however nobody was arguing that myself and others cannot address and resolve issues without drugs. I do on a daily basis.

I and im sure I speak for others know full well that we have the power and capabilities to find growth and knowledge without chemicals.

Whenever this topic arises you come across as anyone using drugs in this manner is, in your words "weak" and "incapable".... Do you not see how that can come across as insulting?


As I said, I still likes ya

Yes I can see my tact with you has been a bit off. Sometimes when you're over the 'net with people you don't know it's easy to blurt out your opinion without worrying about the repercussions.

Yes I did find it a bit weak initially. You were going through a bad time and said "I'd take LSD to help me"... and I thought to myself, everyone else has to face depression and come through it stronger... why should you cower off and let LSD do the work which you can do yourself? how can you develop yourself if you run to the drugs everytime trouble hits?

A legitimate argument, but yeah, maybe I was quick to make a judgement then.

But you do talk a lot of shit, raas.

Though I've never been a big psych user (meddled with cannabis and shrooms) this has been a very prevalent issue with me recently. The recent Charas has been giving me epiphanies like nothing before, I used to smoke weed frequently for years but never has it been as trippy as this. I'm not sure if it's the purity of this stuff, or my mind being more receptive to the drug due to age.

Either way, I feel the knowledge and revelations that have come from the plant, is knowledge that I would liked to have come to in my own time, in my own way, at my own will... I don't like that this development has come externally and so quickly, and I feel my own capability of mind-expansion and development is suffering for it.

Not making up shit here, just my own experience. It does intrigue me greatly, whether psych's can aid development or - in the long run - effect it negatively. It's probably the Christian in me, but I am very dubious of use.... but interested in conflicting opinions and do take them seriously

 

[Shambles]

Personally I think the separation of personal growth and development that's brought about by chemical means and that is brought about by alternative techniques or simply through life experience is an artificial one. It's all growth and development - surely the more you can learn about yourself and your relationship with all that is around you the better, no?

I would agree there are risks that come with use of psychedelic drugs, there are risks that come with dancing round a fire for 24h straight to bring on visions and epiphanies too, or from fasting, or from a number of traditional, non-chemical means of achieving altered or visionary states. And it's not like living life avoiding psychedelics and any of the other techniques - including meditation which I suspect is about as safe as it gets for such techniques - is without risk anyway.

There's risk in everything - it's up to the individual to decide what risks they are prepared to accept. And in truth, the risks from psychedelic use are not so very great. I think we've mostly gotten over the hysteria that surrounded them when they first took off amongst the masses rather than only amongst selected patients and an elite intelligentsia. Put in perspective, drugs don't come much safer for the most part - assuming the user has some common sense anyway.

 

[ColtDan]

I feel the knowledge and revelations that have come from the plant, is knowledge that I would liked to have come to in my own time, in my own way, at my own will... I don't like that this development has come externally and so quickly, and I feel my own capability of mind-expansion and development is suffering for it.

I bet its brought on reveleations that have made you doubt your faith and its upset you

 

[Eveleivibe]

ugh raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas please don't change your font like that it's difficult to see and gives me a headache.
Yea I love the film, The Matrix.... Have the wallpaper on everything; my phone, Facebook etc (all my FB friends see my Matrix wallpaper lol).
That aside, The Matrix sparked a lot off for me, I mean of course, I know 'tis a film n all that other stuff - but 'tis so fascinating thinking, wondering, reflecting, wondering some more.

Everything we feel,
Is it really so real,
Everything we touch,
Is it really just as such

I often wonder
That if we were to sunder
That from our mind
And what is true, what is left behind?

Everything we feel, touch with our fingertips,
Everything we eat, taste with our tongues, put between our lips,
Is what we see, sense, feel - really the deal,
Is everyone around us, what we experience - is it real?

As we walk through a complete mist,
like blind eyes, we cannot like the truth, we cannot see our own written list,
Is everything that is, our senses, our feelings; in our imagination,
Is it all a pretence, a lie, splendidly done?

If, like the Matrix, something was blinding us from the truth,
How on earth would we ever be let lose?
There are but so many answers in such a word,
But the question is; is this "reality" the truth of what has occurred?

Evey 14/04/2014

PS; That's what drink does. I end up writing a load of bloody c***.

But hayho I'm doing T Focus 25 now n I lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvve Shaun T.....

Seriously... go to the philosophy section, raas, they need people like you.
I'm not that intelligent or I'd send more time that lol.

Evey xxxx