• Trip Reports Moderator: M!$ter-ED

Ultra Enhanced Indo 830mg - 1st Trial - Incredible, But Not Much Like Kratom

CK - For such a bright guy it seems pretty silly to let your dose get up to 6grams while using daily and not anticipate a nasty w/d! No offense of course, we all make silly choices. Tolerance seems to be one of the best predictors of dependence, when it goes up super fast thats not a good sign. Though I'm sure you know all this, still good info for the lurkers on the thread.

I haven't been using Phenibut long enough to say much. All I know is that, like with everything else, I cap my dose before I start taking it regularly. Once I have a good idea of the baseline effect I decide what the max I'll ever let myself take in a single day is, and stick to it. If I don't feel that dose I take a good long break, though I never do it close to daily anyway.
 
I knew phenibut was addictive but I had no idea 1 week was enough to cause withdrawal 8o... also I meant to type 5grams (not that it makes any difference lol). I noticed that almost each day after the 2nd or 3rd day I had to increase my dose by a gram, tolerance is a bitch with phenibut (for me at least). I read of people taking humoungous doses so I thought one week would be fine, boy was I surprised when I stopped use! Also for someone with anxiety gaba-ergics are so appealing, learned my lesson though. I've had a vial of 150mgs of etiz for months and still have most of it :D.

Ps. I do alot of stupid shit that's not reccomended, I'm gonna borrow a quote from xorkoth (or whomever he heard it from), "sometimes ones own wisdom isn't heeded"... I try not to carry any of my stupidity onto BL though for obvious HR reasons.
 
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I enjoyed phenibut for the short duration I had it. When I started wanting to use it more than twice a week, I just flushed the remaining 20 grams down the toilet. I didn't make it this far in my life to get addicted to some bullshit I bought off of Ebay.
 
ebola? said:
What is your level of general susceptibility to opioid hangovers? I believe these to be more severe for people quite experienced with opioids, particularly those who've experienced dependence at some point.
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I'm formerly opioid dependent multiple times over (I also maintained using plain leaf kratom for awhile)... In my few dabbles since last breaking my dependence to opioids, I've definitely noticed hangovers are more pronounced and also that the beginnings of physical addiction happen almost right away. Anyway, I have some of this very UEI on the way and will report back sometime this next week with an update.
 
I didn't notice any decrease in efficacy of my morning dose of 4g kratom, though I added another 3 grams a few hours later because I was still too stimulated form the .5g OEB! That worked well.

I don't see any reason why it would make kratom ineffective altogether, no more than a few days of Oxy or Suboxone. I've noticed a decrease in effectiveness of kratom for a few days after I do those drugs, but it slowly comes back. I only dose twice a day, maybe three times when I'm taking plain leaf, and I experience significant withdrawal as it gets closer to the time for another dose.

I imagine that after this weekend when I go back I'll notice it's a bit less effective but by the weekend things will be back to normal. It's not like UEI has special receptor damaging qualities that would mean I'd have to use it forever in order to enjoy kratom at all.

When I first started kratom when coming off subs I didn't notice ANY opioid qualities, just a weird sedative effect. It took me a few weeks or a month before I started experiencing an opioid effect from it. I wonder if that'll happen when I go back to plain leaf tomorrow, it might. It'll suck that I'd have to go through that again, but so long as the leaf is able to keep me out of withdrawal and help me sleep, I've got no problems with going through that again.

I think perhaps people who use UEI and then notice a lack of enjoyable effect when they go back to kratom assume that kratom won't work anymore and thus go back to UEI right away instead of toughing it out for a week or two.

OEB is a stimulant for sure, calling it oxindole enhanced made me think it had been fortified with mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, but if that's the case, MPI is extremely stimulating. .5g of that made me unable to sleep for six hours. I had to use more just to stay awake during the workday because I got no sleep that night made for a very long day. I put .5g in some applesauce with 2g MD and ate half at 5 hours then half at 9 hours into my shift. worked good, fortunately.
 
Yeah, I don't plan on using them for a while after today.

I noticed a really strong hangover when I woke up today. Never have hangovers from opioids, either. Well, except a few times when I was younger and I nodded off and would wake up with a head ravaging migraine, which I attributed to not breathing enough. Two Advil always eliminated it within an hour.

I'll go back to plain leaf during the week and uei+plain leaf on weekends. I don't want all the euphoria, it's nice and all, but I want those noddy dreams on the weekend.
 
The original trip report was just with UEI though, right? I didn't get any plain leaf because I don't like the cracked-out feeling after the initial effects wear off. My intent is to just take the UEI alone, but what do you think about taking it on its own? Good, or does it need the PL for full effects? I have a lot of experience with kratom but never tried the UEI, basically because I assumed it was similar to other extracts.
 
Hammilton- from what I've gathered in the past from him the OEB is enhanced with "Oxindole B", whatever that may be! Lotta potential oxindoles and pseudoindoxyls in the mitagynine skeleton... He used to sell it straight, and it was incredibly stimulating at 50mg! Crazy stuff....he used to also sell "250x" , which is what is diluted 1:10 with plain leaf to make UEI. It was discontinued because it was too potent and folks were going nuts with it. If you wanna go onna bender, try the ssFST! It is pricey...but 2ml will blast me father than several grams of UEI. Nice stuff...different character...more stimulating slightly than UEI but in high doses way more noddy and hypnagogic.

Either taken in high doses will ruin my tolerance to PL for 3-5 days, I don't mess with them anymore. I also have an extensive history! On various forums there are folks who have gotten addicted to high high doses of both (7-10 grams of UEI, 2-8 ml's of FST daily) and they describe the withdrawals as far worse than most serious high potency opioids. Nasty, besides spending outrageous amounts of money..

FWIW, when I used to take those extracts more than a day or two in a row my tolerance to them would rise far faster than other opioids. Who knows, but many other report the same. Maybe it takes a little while of playing with them..

Be "smart" and keep your leaf ussage where you are at..2-3 times a day seems to pretty maintainable for most. It only got really problematic for me when I started dosing every 4 hours, around the clock. And as I've said, the withdrawals with this approach are particularly nasty. Frequency seemed to have a more deleterious effect on my habit than my daily amount.....
 
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I have been using kratom for over a year now, and that is a year I have been able to pass any drug test! I know I'm still not 'clean and sober' all the time with my kratom use, but being able to take a random drug test at work with no fear feels like a real accomplishment. I know how silly that sounds, but I'm sure others can relate.

Kratom really is natures (much more pleasant) methadone. SS extracts are fantastic, however the addiction potential is very real and very easy to fall into.

I would recommend anyone wanting to get into kratom (or get off of an opiate addiction) start with plain leaf and try to stay there. It can make you feel great, but there is a ceiling effect and the side effects make it self limiting , so it is no where as addictive as traditional opiates or kratom extracts. Once you cross into extracts (ss or otherwise), going back to plain leaf won't be the same.

Also, as the other poster said, re-dosing is a big waste. Same day dosing gives very large diminishing returns, while increasing side effects. Day-to-day dosing exponentially raises tolerances. This is acceptable if you are trying to stop an opiate habit, but for recreational users I would stick to once or twice a week.

Kratom really is a gift. I hope some of these extracts don't cause it to become illegal. I love UEI, but I would rather never see it again than to loose the availability of plain leaf.

e; Kratom also gives me some of the most vivid/ lucid dreaming I have ever had on any substance. If I take UEI after 5pm I am guaranteed to rapidly fall into lucid dreaming.
 
Some people have really intense kratom addictions, from plain leaf. I did it many times a day for like 7 years, and the withdrawal was horrible, in some ways worse than my current opiate, poppy tea (though much shorter). And I used plain leaf only, I mean occasionally I used an extract but rarely. For me, being on kratom is not being off of opiates, it hits the mu receptor and it has many alkaloids combining to give you multiple chemical withdrawal.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and congrats for getting off worse opiates. :) Just trying to share my experience with kratom, it's not benign like a lot of people think.

If you can manage to keep it to once or twice a week and sustain that, I would say it's totally fine to use. For me, I can't do that, I need to never do any opiates again once I get off this time. Kratom just kicks me right back into it.
 
amanitadine said:
2-3 times a day seems to pretty maintainable for most.
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Not at all--most people would withdraw if they were to discontinue dosing after employing such a regimen many days in a row.

strigoi said:
Kratom really is natures (much more pleasant) methadone.
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How so? It's rather briefly acting and doesn't feel very similar to methadone.

ebola
 
^ It also doesn't block opiates and keeps tolerance to the heavier opioids low, despite my daily habit 30-40mgs of hydro or oxy will still get me moderately high. This can be dangerous if someone switches to kratom for a while then hops back on the opiate train and chooses to dose what they used to. That's not to say kratom can't be as, if not more usefull than methadone though.
 
Ebola- maintainable as in maintenance, as in "opioid replacement therapy" or whatever the current phrase is. 2-3 times a day will most certainly cause dependance and withdrawal, but people can sustain that regimen for years. 6-8 times a day however was unsustainable for me...it took some time to get to that level, but the side effects became intolerable, and the duration getting shorter and shorter.....

I'm with Xorkoth and found the withdrawals from Kratom to be among the worst of the worst. Granted, I was abusing the shit out of it. The opioidergic withdrawals were barely tolerable, but the other aspects of the withdrawal were just hideous....I'd rather kick a moderate sized straight opioid habit any day.
 
I got this uei yesterday and tried 1g. It was too much and i got a bit nauseous. It wasn't as much of a pharmaceutical feel as i was hoping for. Next time i will probably do .7 or so. On the bright side, i have no hangover whatsoever today.
 
ebola? said:
How so? It's rather briefly acting and doesn't feel very similar to methadone.
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I think my statement is too broad. It's not a literal methadone, but I (and many others) find kratom does in deed have a blocking effect. Right before I stopped using pharmaceutical opiates I was using a single 30mg dose of oxycodone a day. During this transition there were several attempts I foolishly made to take oxycodone in the afternoon or evening on the same day I took my morning kratom dose (6grams) , and each of those times I felt nothing at all from the pills, even when taking larger doses of the pills. I understand tolerance and placebo effect, but I don't feel this phenomenon is attributed to it. I really urge anyone who has the means to attempt this yourself and report your findings.

I should say though, this is with light or medium opiate habits/tolerances. If you are shooting heroin daily then no, kratom probably isn't going to cut it.
 
^ that is not blocking, it is standard run of the mill tolerance. Kratom really jacks up tolerance to other opioids, especially perplexing given how relatively mild it's opioid effects are in comparison.

Case in point: I took large amounts of Kratom for years (50g a day) and had some surgery. I was given a total of 200 mg of oxycodone for pain relief. 20 mg did nothing. The next morning, after a good twelve hours of no Kratom (no mean feat for me at the time) I took the remainder of the oxycodone (180 mg) hoping to catch a nice classic opioid high. Barely felt a thing. Resumed Kratom to much effect. I've read many others report the same thing.

The "it's natural so it's good, fuck "Big Pharma" " crowd often cite kratoms "blocking effects".....tolerance, tolerance, tolerance.
 
^ My tolerance to opioids hasn't risen at all, 40mgs of oxy or hydro will still get me high and I've been on kratom for years. Also, some claim to experience a sort of blocking effect when under the influence of kratom, however the blocking effect dissapates as soon as the high fades away. There's a relevant thread posted earlier, in there I quoted 5 of the many posts complaining of this "blocking" phenomena.... The blocking effect is easily overridden though IME and nothing compared to the sheer power of methadone which has been said by quite a few to nearly permanently jack peoples tolerance up, ymmv.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/718249-Mixing-Kratom-with-Opioids
 
Kratom generally contributed to my tolerance to opioids raising since before I used it, but I can get very high off a relatively low dose of an opiate that isn't hydrocodone (I can't get really high from hydro, never could, 50mg will make me a bit sleepy with a tiny bit of euphoria), if I've just been on kratom, even a shitload of kratom.
 
amanitadine said:
The "it's natural so it's good, fuck "Big Pharma" " crowd often cite kratoms "blocking effects".....tolerance, tolerance, tolerance.
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I don't believe natural = good as a blanket statement at all, and sorry if I came off that way. I am not a kratom expert, or expert of any kind actually, just some voice discussing kratom. What you say does make sense. I have had experiences like CaptainKratom. If I take a week off , my 30mg oxycodone dose has me feeling good again. My uneducated guess would be that kratom binds tightly to the receptors and is slow to release them (far longer than when you stop feeling high).
 
I found additive effects in combination with hydrocodone. Oddly, acquisition of tolerance to kratom didn't affect my response to hydrocodone much.

ebola
 
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