Too late for PCT? (plz read)

Kastr0

Kastr0

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Hi, thanks for your interest in my post!

I have been juicing since the beginning of January (two 10ml bottles of Test Cypionate roughly 300-500 mg's per week) and have not been able to find my PCT items (clomid, nolvadex, preferrably arimidex) so after stopping the use of Test Cypionate for 2-3 weeks I decided (in effort to avoid aromatization and a bad drop in my normal test levels I continued using to get more time to obtain an anti-aromatase drug for my PCT I am now taking Delatestryl which is Testosterone Enanthate I am now reaching the end of my 2nd 5ml bottle (250-400mg's per week) and have a time delay before I can get my clomid or arimidex, so I am mainly asking for professional advice as to the mostve effective way to prevent gyno and any other unwanted side effects (havent noticed any yet) and how much time I have after my last shot of enanthate before PCT is needed - if I am unable to get my PCT in ordrr I was planning to take Trenbalone Acetate (finaplex) for another month and a half before doing PCT Plz comment and point me in the right direction here - thanks in advance! (keep in mind I am training, resting, eating a proper diet, and am taking multi vitamins as well as milk thistle and have done more than enough research despite my lengrhy cycle so please only post positive and constructive advice spare the criticism - thanks!!)
 
Kastr0 said:
Hi, thanks for your interest in my post!

I have been juicing since the beginning of January (two 10ml bottles of Test Cypionate roughly 300-500 mg's per week) and have not been able to find my PCT items (clomid, nolvadex, preferrably arimidex) so after stopping the use of Test Cypionate for 2-3 weeks I decided (in effort to avoid aromatization and a bad drop in my normal test levels I continued using to get more time to obtain an anti-aromatase drug for my PCT I am now taking Delatestryl which is Testosterone Enanthate I am now reaching the end of my 2nd 5ml bottle (250-400mg's per week) and have a time delay before I can get my clomid or arimidex, so I am mainly asking for professional advice as to the mostve effective way to prevent gyno and any other unwanted side effects (havent noticed any yet) and how much time I have after my last shot of enanthate before PCT is needed - if I am unable to get my PCT in ordrr I was planning to take Trenbalone Acetate (finaplex) for another month and a half before doing PCT Plz comment and point me in the right direction here - thanks in advance! (keep in mind I am training, resting, eating a proper diet, and am taking multi vitamins as well as milk thistle and have done more than enough research despite my lengrhy cycle so please only post positive and constructive advice spare the criticism - thanks!!)
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Out of curiosity, how old are you?
 
Kastr0 said:
Hi, thanks for your interest in my post!

I have been juicing since the beginning of January (two 10ml bottles of Test Cypionate roughly 300-500 mg's per week) and have not been able to find my PCT items (clomid, nolvadex, preferrably arimidex) so after stopping the use of Test Cypionate for 2-3 weeks I decided (in effort to avoid aromatization and a bad drop in my normal test levels I continued using to get more time to obtain an anti-aromatase drug for my PCT I am now taking Delatestryl which is Testosterone Enanthate I am now reaching the end of my 2nd 5ml bottle (250-400mg's per week) and have a time delay before I can get my clomid or arimidex, so I am mainly asking for professional advice as to the most effective way to prevent gyno and any other unwanted side effects (havent noticed any yet) and how much time I have after my last shot of enanthate before PCT is needed - if I am unable to get my PCT in order I was planning to take Trenbalone Acetate (finaplex) for another month and a half before doing PCT Plz comment and point me in the right direction here - thanks in advance! (keep in mind I am training, resting, eating a proper diet, and am taking multi vitamins as well as milk thistle and have done more than enough research despite my lengthy cycle so please only post positive and constructive advice spare the criticism - thanks!!)
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Your cycle doesn't seem very well planned....... Test Cypionate roughly 300-500 mg's per week..... 250-400mg's per week How much are you actually on per week..?? You don't seem too sure..? Keeping stable blood plasma levels is the best method to minimise the possibility of aromatization, DHT conversion or gyno issues... stopping for 2-3 weeks then jumping back on is NOT recommended... Pinning an equal amount twice per week is more likely to achieve stable blood levels (which is what you should be doing)..
Trenbolone is a 19-nor... taking a 19-nor in the last few weeks of a cycle prior to secession or PCT is NOT recommended, as there is a greater likely-hood your HPTA will be suppressed more by taking the 19-nor... NO TREN..!!

Your cycle is Test only and a pretty small dose at that.... I'd not bother with PCT and taper off end of cycle... maybe use a low dose Adex and taper off that too....
 
Was going to say to taper off the gear, halfing the dose each week, until the doses fall below 70mg which is what your body should be making pw. But gf got there first.
Again as gf said wtf kind of cycle was this? I read a fucklot of first cycle and other cycle threads on various different forums and have never ever heard "between 300 and 500mg pw". Steroids are not toys or recreational drugs, you can't just randomly change dosages Willy nilly during cycle, doses should be consistent.
And I don't know where to start on the tren... Your (I assume or at least hope) that this is your first cycle and youv just got everything seriously wrong, your dosages are fucked up, you don't know what your doing and you got on cycle with no pct or source of pct on hand, and your talking about taking one of the most hardcore steroids known? Do you know a thing about tren whatsoever? As gf said tren is a 19 nor and will suppress you harder than any dose of test did, you will not recover as well...
I'm finished with this post...
 
Thanks for your replies, I know exactly what im doing.. The Tren is a bad idea and im not going to go through with it im just going to taper off the Test and do some clomid or arimidex PCT, when I said 300-500 mgs per week I should have been more specific, I front loaded at the start of my cycle so I basically took 500mgs the first 3 weeks, then 400, now im doing 300 a week.. I apologize for coming off as a novice and I appreciate the advice, my test was already in the low range due to being on methadone for the last 2 years, before I start my PCT I am going to get my test levels checked by my doctor as he will prescribe me testosterone as long as my levels are in the required range and low enough, once again thanks for your help guys!
 
That makes slightly more sense, although why did you frontload then taper off there is pretty much no use in that other than causing unstable blood levels you should have just cycled 500pw for the duration. If you were having low test then why come off the gear at all? You should blast and cruise at TRT dosages although get bloods done first to make sure. TRT is for life.
 
Just so you know, long term opiate use can fuck your test for good, so you may end up needing trt anyway. I think Guido has more experience with that so hope he posts here.
 
Kastr0 said:
Thanks for your replies, I know exactly what im doing.. The Tren is a bad idea and im not going to go through with it im just going to taper off the Test and do some clomid or arimidex PCT, when I said 300-500 mgs per week I should have been more specific, I front loaded at the start of my cycle so I basically took 500mgs the first 3 weeks, then 400, now im doing 300 a week.. I apologize for coming off as a novice and I appreciate the advice, my test was already in the low range due to being on methadone for the last 2 years, before I start my PCT I am going to get my test levels checked by my doctor as he will prescribe me testosterone as long as my levels are in the required range and low enough, once again thanks for your help guys!
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To front load with an injectable: First injection should be double your planned dose then normal dose after that...

Be careful when you have your blood tests done..!! There will be some residual test still in your bloodstream after last pin... If on Test-E that could be 4 half-lives.. 20 days.. I'd wait about 3 weeks after last pin before I'd do the test....
 
Genetic Freak said:
Your cycle doesn't seem very well planned....... Test Cypionate roughly 300-500 mg's per week..... 250-400mg's per week How much are you actually on per week..?? You don't seem too sure..? Keeping stable blood plasma levels is the best method to minimise the possibility of aromatization, DHT conversion or gyno issues... stopping for 2-3 weeks then jumping back on is NOT recommended... Pinning an equal amount twice per week is more likely to achieve stable blood levels (which is what you should be doing)..
Trenbolone is a 19-nor... taking a 19-nor in the last few weeks of a cycle prior to secession or PCT is NOT recommended, as there is a greater likely-hood your HPTA will be suppressed more by taking the 19-nor... NO TREN..!!

Your cycle is Test only and a pretty small dose at that.... I'd not bother with PCT and taper off end of cycle... maybe use a low dose Adex and taper off that too....
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wtf are you guys talking about? Tapering off? Tapering off of steroids doesn't make you any less shut down.

OP, it's never too late to PCT. Clomid and Nolva. You evidently didn't use HCG on cycle, so if I were you I'd blast it in between cycling and PCT.
 
shroomster said:
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wtf are you guys talking about? Tapering off? Tapering off of steroids doesn't make you any less shut down.

OP, it's never too late to PCT. Clomid and Nolva. You evidently didn't use HCG on cycle, so if I were you I'd blast it in between cycling and PCT.
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He's on 300mg/week Test-C.... After the ester weight has been removed thats about 195mg/week.... Not a huge amount IMO...

Testosterone itself at such a relatively low dose isn't going to be that suppressive on LH... (he won't be totally shut down)...
I don't believe LH will be fully suppressed..... By tapering off (lowering the dose of Test over several weeks) exogenous Test levels will gradually lower... In time LH levels will rise...!!

If on a heavy cycle 1-2g/week inclusive of 19-nors I would definitely recommend an appropriate PCT protocol... He's not so I didn't..!!!

hCG on cycle..?? Whats the point..? He's on 195mg/week..? hCG is only recommended for serious bodybuilders on cruise blast that never come off and wish to retain some testicular function (spermatogenesis) and some minor hormone function whilst blasting.....

This is primarily a harm reduction web-site, we try to advocate minimal polypharmacy on here, throwing hCG and women's cancer drugs into the mix on such a low dose of Test, just doesn't cut it IMO......
 
Genetic Freak said:
He's on 300mg/week Test-C.... After the ester weight has been removed thats about 195mg/week.... Not a huge amount IMO...

Testosterone itself at such a relatively low dose isn't going to be that suppressive on LH... (he won't be totally shut down)...
I don't believe LH will be fully suppressed..... By tapering off (lowering the dose of Test over several weeks) exogenous Test levels will gradually lower... In time LH levels will rise...!!

If on a heavy cycle 1-2g/week inclusive of 19-nors I would definitely recommend an appropriate PCT protocol... He's not so I didn't..!!!

hCG on cycle..?? Whats the point..? He's on 195mg/week..? hCG is only recommended for serious bodybuilders on cruise blast that never come off and wish to retain some testicular function (spermatogenesis) and some minor hormone function whilst blasting.....

This is primarily a harm reduction web-site, we try to advocate minimal polypharmacy on here, throwing hCG and women's cancer drugs into the mix on such a low dose of Test, just doesn't cut it IMO......
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He was on exogenous testosterone for several months, his HPTA is shutdown. Shut down is shutdown. He's better off stopping completely, waiting the appropriate time based on the testosterone's half life and making a speedy recovery with clomid and nolva, a combination which has proved itself many a' times. The rewards of these drugs far outweigh the risks. If his LH increases on lower amounts of testosterone in time, then so much more with no exogenous test at all! Tapering is an old school notion and it is antiquated. This is the first forum I've been on in a long time where PCT is to be avoided. He is still going to need to recover, on 150mg or a gram, he is shut down. Why intentionally prolong recovery? WHY? OP was on for several months, he has at least that long to recover (words of Dr. Scally, not mine) with SERMS.
 
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Eh we're against pct in that if you really want to keep your gains then it's blast n cruise. Must be stated that it for those who really want to bodybuild and be the best they can be.
 
shroomster said:
He was on exogenous testosterone for several months, his HPTA is shutdown. Shut down is shutdown. He's better off stopping completely, waiting the appropriate time based on the testosterone's half life and making a speedy recovery with clomid and nolva, a combination which has proved itself many a' times. The rewards of these drugs far outweigh the risks. If his LH increases on lower amounts of testosterone in time, then so much more with no exogenous test at all! Tapering is an old school notion and it is antiquated. This is the first forum I've been on in a long time where PCT is to be avoided. He is still going to need to recover, on 150mg or a gram, he is shut down. Why intentionally prolong recovery? WHY? OP was on for several months, he has at least that long to recover (words of Dr. Scally, not mine) with SERMS.
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This is probably the first forum you've been on that doesn't have products for sale.. As previously stated we have our members best interest in mind when dispensing advice..

We are not against PCT as I stated: If on a heavy cycle 1-2g/week inclusive of 19-nors I would definitely recommend an appropriate PCT protocol... He's not so I didn't..!!!

I might even recommend PCT on 500mg/week....

But at 195mg/week I have suggested what I believe to be a safer option with minimal polypharmacy... Taper off, maybe with a low dose AI and taper off that too...

What makes you so convinced he will be 100% shutdown..?

Personally I'd rather taper off and for this reason I wouldn't bother with SERMS as aromatase inhibitors like anastrazole are a better accompaniment to this protocol. Adding more PCT drugs into the mix just means more poly-pharmacy and more side effects.

With regard to a previous comment on hCG, receptor down regulation is just a reality for receptor mediated drug therapy. While the literature on this particular topic is scarce I have seen one showing the effects in humans as well as rats, albeit the human study was with large dosages greater than 1000iu. Regardless, while you may be able to safely administer therapeutic doses of hCG without inducing primary hypogonadism, why would you? LH is not the problem when it comes to coming off cycle, LH concentrations rise simultaneously with a fall in serum androgen levels and it is a myth that all exogenous testosterone must clear your system before your HPTA restarts. Your body cannot tell the difference between endogenous and exogenous testosterone.

So if hCG mimics LH yet serum LH rises with falling androgen concentrations anyway, whats the point in administering it? Having said that it is important to note that when I say androgens I mean testosterone. Other AAS which have different binding affinities for the androgen receptor may still be suppressing LH production in spite of negligible levels of circulating testosterone. For this reason I have seen it be recommended that a low dose test bridge (100mg/ week) be used before the taper in order to allow time for other AAS to clear your system. The bridge should be equal to at least 4x the longest half life of any co-administered androgens/anabolics.
Your brain senses the amount of sex hormones in your blood and adjusts the secretion of LH accordingly. Its doing this all the time. It doesn't matter whether its secreted from your testes or injected into the body, testosterone is testosterone. Your brain only senses how much is in your blood not where it came from.
 
I'm not getting involved in this argument, I just want to ask you gf though why are you against the use of polypharmacy in regards to a pct? What is the harms or reasons to avoid this? Pct normally is a tried and tested method, why do you advocate the use of tapering and avoiding polypharmacy? I don't mean this in an argumentitive sense, I'm genuinely interested for your theory or in any information you know of?
 
Well for one Serms have a bunch of negative sides for some like clomid affecting vision and nolvadex affecting igf levels. If they're not needed 100% why use them (and spend the money). The guy is barely above trt doses and is roughly around the level of active test as we using 500mg/week would be at before we implement serms for pct.
 
nolys said:
I'm not getting involved in this argument, I just want to ask you gf though why are you against the use of polypharmacy in regards to a pct? What is the harms or reasons to avoid this? Pct normally is a tried and tested method, why do you advocate the use of tapering and avoiding polypharmacy? I don't mean this in an argumentitive sense, I'm genuinely interested for your theory or in any information you know of?
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Hi nolys..... Basically what Serotonin101 said, I couldn't have put it better myself... I'm not totally against PCT, although I would advocate cruise blast as a better option if your in it for the long haul... If on a heavy cycle especially if inclusive of a 19-nor I would definitely recommend PCT, so I'm not against it...

I prefer to give advice specific to the person asking the question rather than dole out generic garbage cut-n-pasted from some other forum with plenty of products for sale..

Training history, years on AAS (what AAS), size, BF%, diet etc.... type and amount of compounds in proposed cycle, you get the drift..!!
By planning a cycle better you can limit the number of side effects and drugs needed to combat them... IE: sensible dose for the individuals cycle history, inclusion of DHT's like Masteron for better E2 and progesterone management, dropping a 19-nor a few weeks before Test, lowering the Test last few weeks etc etc...

The reason I suggested a Taper + low dose AI, for the OP was because the amount was so low.... Your HPTA won't shut-down completely with a bit of Test, it will lower LH, but as exogenous doses decrease, your brain will eventually detect this and take the appropriate action by raising LH.. no biggie..!!

As you know I've been on about 34 years now & have had plenty of blood tests to show my body doesn't totally shut-down when cruising or on low doses of just testosterone, of which my HPTA always reverts back to a reasonable amount (enough to have had 4 kids) LOL..

That was my thinking...
 
Oh yeah definitely. There's also hcg, clomid, and hmg I believe it's called to significantly increase fertility.
 
Wow, thank you guys very much for all the useful info!

I am a little confused, as some are saying my test production will be shut down permanently and some say I will be ok? I was under the impression that after stopping for a while my levels would naturally be restored as I was not taking too high of a dose! My plan is to stay off of test for 3 weeks and get my levels tested by my doc again and if low enough jump on test again which will be legally administered this time - any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
 
Kastr0 said:
Wow, thank you guys very much for all the useful info!

I am a little confused, as some are saying my test production will be shut down permanently and some say I will be ok? I was under the impression that after stopping for a while my levels would naturally be restored as I was not taking too high of a dose! My plan is to stay off of test for 3 weeks and get my levels tested by my doc again and if low enough jump on test again which will be legally administered this time - any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
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Before I advise anyone on anything anabolic related, it's wise for the OP to provide stats and goals. Age/weight/height/bf/years training/cycle experience, including your goals and what you want to achieve out of this cycle. This is a safer way of providing information due to the fact that many people based off these simple stats are no where near ready to be spoon fed a bunch of ways for them to begin putting a needle in their ass when they aren't even ready.

Now, I don't know anything about your cycle experience, or if you have any medical conditions. Assuming this is your first time, and you are a healthy young dude, you are not going to be permanently shut down after those doses and durations. Yes, if you stop supplying an exogenous source of testosterone, your testes will start signaling to produce your natural output of T again but the process is slow. Hence the reason for a recovery protocol.

You said can't find your PCT. Did they grow legs and run away? Sorry broski, not trying to bust your ass, but it just doesn't sound like you were properly prepared for this cycle. Questions like "how much time after my last shot of enanthate is PCT needed" denotes a severe lack in research and understanding of the compounds you are toying with. These questions are basic and should have been known long before you ever got the gear in your hand. I always stress to my clients and people across many boards over many years to educate before they medicate. Keep this in mind next time, the information you are seeking is all over the board.

Alright, so without even knowing what your goals are with all of this, it sounds like all you really need at this point is PCT. Not sure where you are getting your sources from but there are literally hundreds of places you can utilize and have SERMS at your door in 3 days. If you can find the juice, you can certainly find those. Your plan to do a hormone panel after 3 weeks of being off test just to get on TRT is horrible. These physicians aren't stupid and if you are anything under 30 and you look like you've been juicing or muscular in any way they'll know your test levels aren't naturally low for no reason. If anything they'll place you on some topical cream that will have an half ass absorption rate and send you on your way.

What are you goals with all this?
 
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