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Addiction

Thank you very, very much, MDB. And, please, you've never appeared 'creepy' to me. I hope we've gotten beyond that. :) If you were referring to me deleting my posts yesterday, I just freaked out and wasn't sure if my deciding to dip my toe into BL was a bit too soon (for my own mental health/wavering vulnerabilities that surface on a whim due to fear of not being wanted on the forum) - nothing to do with you. However, I decided to discuss my experiences as I felt it would open up an alternate take on the topic of addiction, and b/c it's something I feel is important to be open about to keep yourself in control.

I genuinely appreciate what you said about what I chose to share. It was difficult/scary for me, but I'm at a point where I need to be honest with myself and I hope, on some level, that translates enough to reach others. I'm glad you were one of them. It means a lot, as does the support.

Hope you're well, and all the best. :)
 
Yeah. and paragraphed

Cheers for that... Sorry if I was more concerned with exercising old demons/hopefully opening a dialouge than considering the possibility that my dense writings would make things difficult for some. It took a lot for me to share that, so again, thanks for the support...
 
Yeah Im OK thanks, i hope you are too, Im feeling slightly more motivated today. I'm getting bloody obsessed about that atm, as its been a real struggle of late. I'm reading 'The Motivated Mind' and am not sure how much Im taking in, but ive chased up an employabilty support worker first thing on getting up today to get a confirmed appointmet for next week, which is something very procative and motivated for me to have done, compared to how ive been recently. Im letting it slide that i cant get out of bed until 11.30 atm. :\
 
Yeah Im OK thanks, i hope you are too, Im feeling slightly more motivated today. I'm getting bloody obsessed about that atm, as its been a real struggle of late. I'm reading 'The Motivated Mind' and am not sure how much Im taking in, but ive chased up an employabilty support worker first thing on getting up today to get a confirmed appointmet for next week, which is something very procative and motivated for me to have done, compared to how ive been recently. Im letting it slide that i cant get out of bed until 11.30 atm. :\

Great to hear and best of luck on the job hunt. I know how daunting that can be, particularly given many of our situations. I recently quit my job (place was corrupt as hell), and have had residual guilt, b/c I've been whoring it like mad (not literally, lol) to seek re-employment and it's proving more difficult than I had expected - plus my anxiety has been a bit in overdrive, so that's been hard. Hearing of your motivation is really pleasant news, and good for me to see as a positive example. Keep me posted on how things go, and good luck to you. :)
 
Dans taking the piss, dont take it personally! He's just a bit jealous of people capable of posting actual writing words, rather than low-brow Hip-Hip Youtube links... ;)

I'm now taking the piss out of Dan, so no hating please, darlings! <3
 
Just making a general statement... wasn't being sarcastic or whatever, dont take it personally wasnt intended like that <3

Thankyou for your outstanding contributions on this topic SF. I really like your style of writing.

Fully agree with this, spot on
 
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Have you ever been through benzo addiction and w/d Mr S. ? I'm hoping that by doing an Ashton method taper i can eliminate the worst of the physical symptoms and risks like seizures and that with a very gradual taper that the worst of the psychological things will be managble and bearable. This is still some time away but it will have to be tackled at some point soon once i stop succumbing to kratom relapses quite frequently, even if they are relatively brief and piss easy to stop tbh compared to the things i was taking before. Especially now the weather is warming up i dont feel freezing cold all the time and that alone helps massively.
 
Great to hear and best of luck on the job hunt. I know how daunting that can be, particularly given many of our situations. I recently quit my job (place was corrupt as hell), and have had residual guilt, b/c I've been whoring it like mad (not literally, lol) to seek re-employment and it's proving more difficult than I had expected - plus my anxiety has been a bit in overdrive, so that's been hard. Hearing of your motivation is really pleasant news, and good for me to see as a positive example. Keep me posted on how things go, and good luck to you. :)

Cheers, I'll let you know if this employabilty worker is any use. Ive obtained about 15 interviews, didnt attend half of them cos either i didnt really want the job anyway or couldnt be bothered, attended some where i knew i was 'below par' in my interview and didnt stand a chance. The ones that hurt the most were where i felt i did the best i could have possibly done, but still failed to get the job. People tell me not to take it personally, but i havent yet figured out how not to.
 
Just making a general statement... wasn't being sarcastic or whatever, dont take it personally wasnt intended like that <3



Fully agree with this, spot on

My fullest apologies. I read it as sarcasm, and thus got defensive. Sorry to have jumped the gun. Thank you as well for your clarification and kind words. :)
 
Cheers, I'll let you know if this employabilty worker is any use. Ive obtained about 15 interviews, didnt attend half of them cos either i didnt really want the job anyway or couldnt be bothered, attended some where i knew i was 'below par' in my interview and didnt stand a chance. The ones that hurt the most were where i felt i did the best i could have possibly done, but still failed to get the job. People tell me not to take it personally, but i havent yet figured out how not to.

Please do so. And I understand about taking it personally. I feel that way every time I hand in a CV to a place that advertises staff vacancy and receive no call back. It's a bitch and can chip away at your insecurities. Just know a lot of us are going through this, so it can't be just 'you'. Or me, for that matter. It's going to work out eventually. I know that doesn't really help to hear, but it will. My last job was literally hell on earth, and I've never quit a job in my life or am adverse to hard work. So while I felt guilt for a while about bailing on an paying position vs being now gainfully unemployed, I knew I could do better and will. It's a shit market out there, anyway, and most places don't know their ass from their elbows. Keep fighting the good fight and know a lot support you.
 
My last job became hell on earth at times, my addictions had spiralled out of control to the extent that i would wait in all day for my drugs to arrive and then turn up at work 8 hours late and things like that. I had allways been very punctual before. I've quit three jobs, 2 of them i dont feel bad about as i was leaving for better things, but if i could have had a time machine i wouldnt have quit my last job as i had finally ended up with something that was half decent, at times. Anyway, cheers for the support.
 
... Maybe I'm generalizing, but I think a. no one sets out to just 'fall into' an addiction, no matter what kind, and b. in the majority of cases it's to either self medicate or dislocate from emotional pain. And then you're stuck in a cycle. But a lot of people have hard time admitting that. I did. I thought 'oh, hey, I'm having fun' but deep down, I knew there were deep rooted reasons compelling me to do these things (that made me feel disgusted with myself) that I hadn't even made sense of yet. And I think that's also part of why people relapse so often. They haven't fully dealt with the underlying issues, or things such as PAWS take them by surprise...

Think I'd be one of the few foolish enough to have actively sought out heroin addiction. Sort of. It seemed like a viable "solution" to various problems at the time and when circumstance conspired to put me in a situation where there were abundant seemingly perfectly rational reasons for using strong opiates I think I was almost relieved. Gave me a good enough excuse to place the blame on circumstance alone and skirt over the fact I was secretly rather pleased about it. After all, all my musical and literary heroes had gone that route - some of 'em even survived long enough to produce rather appealing descriptions of this exotic state too. Again, even the very best writing on the subject (from addict perspective) tends to be good on the actual mental state of addiction - the way you think, the different way of seeing things - and good on the physical unpleasantries, what is all but non-existent is the psychological and emotional components that are so intrinsic to addiction. They rarely get a mention, and even if they do it's not really made clear how tied to addiction itself they are - more likely to be brought up in relation to reasons for becoming addicted than as additional factors heaped on top of existing issues purely and simply because you are now addicted.

Can also very much relate to the minimising of disappointment and dissatisfaction whilst maximising the enjoyment and satisfaction of day to day existence as an addict. It's very easy to focus on all the fun and games - you do get to see and do all kindsa stuff most people are unlikely to ever come across and there is enjoyment to be had in things you'd never think could be enjoyable normally. There is an undeniable sense of community and "us against the world" camaraderie amongst addicts. At least there certainly was in my situation, I'm sure that's not really universal but does seem common. You tend to find yourself and your day to day life tied to other local addicts simply because they are the only people you really see and mix with day to day and - given the extreme highs and lows involved - do tend to form quite strong bonds. Albeit not strong enough to stop you stealing from each other and feeling perfectly justified in selling each other out to avoid trouble or gain gear most of the time. There is a certain kinship amongst addict communities though. For many people that may well be as close to actual kinship - a support structure of friends and family perhaps absent in other areas of their life - and it can mean a lot. Is easy to brush aside the very obvious limitations of this kinship. Ultimately each addict is alone with their addiction and will put that above just about anything or anybody else - is the nature of addiction to do so.

One big problem when the entirety - or even majority - of your support structure consists of people in very much the same predicament as yourself is that their perspectives and horizons tend to be much the same too. When first hit with those psychological and emotional aspects of addiction - and particularly withdrawal - the people around you can be supportive but can't take you past it. They've not gotten past it themselves. Addiction can become a self-fulfilling prophecy - there is no way out because you don't see anybody getting out, you will fail on Day 3-4 because everybody fails on Day 3-4, you will OD and die shortly after leaving prison because who doesn't? It's very easy to completely lose perspective and see nothing but failure to quit, addiction as death sentence because that's all that surrounds you. Aside from perhaps those annoying happy-clappy 12 Steppers who drive you nuts because it was obviously so much easier for them - they never had a real addiction because they stopped. I know that was always how I saw it anyway - and also know that's a pretty common way of seeing it. By definition only "true" addicts can stick the lifestyle - everybody else was just playing at it - and there is a perverse pride in being able to stick with it no matter how bad things get. Better than being one of those horrid "ex-addicts" surely. Nothing could be that bad.

I do know that for perhaps half of the time I was addicted in the textbook, easily recognisable way - the last 5-6 years on heroin and crack - I hated it. Hated everything about it. Wasn't even enjoying the drugs themselves anymore (well, it's hard not to like crack but I could see the vacuousness of it and how very stupid it was to be taking such extreme risks for something gone in moments leaving only the overwhelming desire to do it all over again, immediately). I didn't want to be what I perceived as an "ex-addict" though. Didn't want to admit defeat nor accept I'd made mistakes along the way that I regretted. Didn't want to come down enough to feel things cos they hurt a lot more than I remember them hurting before. And hurt for different reasons. It wasn't what other people had done or what unfortunate circumstance had befallen me, it was what I had done to myself and to others. Wasn't hurt and able to (legitimetely or not) blame Other, was hurt and with blame rightfully placed on Self. In hindsight it's probably a mixture of both but didn't feel that way when taking those first steps away from addiction of that form (standard street junky stuff).

I never did become that horrid "ex-addict" person I was so afraid of becoming. Then again, I have yet to fully relinquish my addict status. I don't fear becoming that person now though cos I know I won't and I know it is a stupid way of seeing people anyway. Given how very hard it is to really beat addiction I can probably forgive a certain amount of sanctimonious bullshit, but I did hear a whisper that it isn't actually a requirement of quitting anyway. Who knew?
 
Have you ever been through benzo addiction and w/d Mr S. ?

Yes but only at the very mild end of the spectrum when I was a lot younger and bounced a lot easier. Never exclusively benzos and never to the point it would be dangerous to quit - just deeply unpleasant.

As I said, benzos and booze are in a bit of a category of their own (along with barbiturates, GHB/GBL and so on) due to the additional seizure risks and generally life-threatening nature of not doing a properly managed taper. There are rules of "best practice" to follow - Ashton Manual as you mention - and in some sense you do just have to follow the instructions to come out the other side safe and unaddicted. I'm not sure how close to being as simple as that it goes in reality cos - as I say - I've never really been in that situation, but I have heard nothing but good about the Ashton Method and most who have been through it seem to swear by it. I have no doubt you'll be another who does the same - good luck with it :)<3
 
When doing a benzo detox are you still at risk of seizures even if being reduced in a controlled/supervised way at a clinic?

Reason I ask is because I watched Ben:Diary of a Heroin Addict the other day for the second time, I couldnt remember a thing about it from when it first aired. Im sure quite a few of you would of seen it.

Throughout the doc, apart from the pin regularly sticking out of his groin, he is drinking heavily and popping diazs.. At the end of the film he checks himself into a clinic to detox, so you're thinking 'sweet', its all gonna be ok, theres going to be a happy ending here YAY :)..! Just looking and listening to him you can tell that his body wont sustain his lifestyle for any longer....

SPOILER ALERT and finally back to my original question.....!!!!!!

So he checks in, 48 hours later hes died from a brain hemorrhage. Was this down to possible negligence, an incorrect taper or non at all off the benzos and booze or can you still die even if the taper is done correctly?

Hope my question makes sense, ive just read it back and its a bit all over the place but my heads killing and I can't be bothered to rewrite it.. :)
 
I really wouldn't know in a medical sense if his death was directly - or indirectly - caused by his detox regime. I'd suspect probably not directly and quite probably not even indirectly though. I'd suspect an unfortunate coincidence. It is certainly true that detoxing is rough on the body and puts all kindsa stresses and strains on it but I don't really see why it would be unusually likely to cause a brain haemorrhage. I obviously couldn't speak to all detox regimes but, in my experience, they are extremely careful with GABA w/d in particular. From what I saw of people being detoxed from booze and benzos when I was inpatient you were more likely to spend the first week off your tits on benzos than so stressed by savage w/d you burst blood vessels. They tend to start you on a pretty hefty dose then work down slowly - shouldn't really be anything so acutely stressful you'd be in mortal danger. First couple days I was in they got me more wasted than I'd been in months (opioid detox, mind). People I saw on first week of GABA detox were barely conscious most of the day and spent most of their time dozing in bed between meds rounds.

But general answer, no there shouldn't really be much risk at all of seizures if properly managed taper is done. That's what a properly managed taper is specifically designed to prevent and avoid (amongst other benefits). I'm sure there will always be a few unfortunate exceptions but would suspect there's likely to be underlying causes and issues unrelated specifically to any addiction and detoxing. In this instance, I kinda suspect he'd likely have gone down with a brain haemorrhage anyway whether in treatment or not. A body can only take so much abuse and perhaps he just left it that bit too late - pushed that bit too hard. Or perhaps it was a completely unrelated unfortunate coincidence. I doubt it was caused by his recent admittance into detox programme though.
 
Perhaps the medical personel involved in this chaps treatment were not fully apraised as to his use of alcohol & his taper wasn't accurate enough..? I agree that coincidence is the other possibilty...
 
Cheers Mr S, twas just curious. The chap I speak of was in a bad way so it was more than likely his body just gave up.

Could also be what Si mentions and the clinic not being fully aware of the extent but id suspect on the induction when asked about his drug intake he'd of been tempted to exaggerate a little to get more meds or at the very least give them the true extent.

Anyway, was a shame and upsetting to watch.
 
Think I'd be one of the few foolish enough to have actively sought out heroin addiction. Sort of. It seemed like a viable "solution" to various problems at the time and when circumstance conspired to put me in a situation where there were abundant seemingly perfectly rational reasons for using strong opiates I think I was almost relieved. Gave me a good enough excuse to place the blame on circumstance alone and skirt over the fact I was secretly rather pleased about it.

I relate to this as well, and perhaps didn't want to admit it. I hope what you had quoted from my post didn't come off as ignorant or brash. It's such a complex tapestry of reasons that lead to addictions taking shape. If I'm honest with myself, I also in some sense sought out or was overly interested in drugs and drug culture from a young age. Like you, many of those I idolized growing up were vocal about their addictions or drug usage. I saw it on some level as a way to shape what I perceived my image was, as I was painfully shy and introverted as a teenager and grew to resent that and hate that about myself. So I'm just as guilty regarding wearing it as a badge for a bit in my youth, before it took a darker turn. I hope I didn't discredit or come off as dismissive, as what you said rings true for me as well.

I also had some very negative experiences with AA/NA, both b/c I resented many in those rooms at the time (no disrespect to anyone who it has helped or saved) and felt that in many cases it was the blind leading the blind. Maybe I just wasn't 'ready', but it never worked for me and I feel for some it becomes a sort of mask or crutch that can even detach them from self awareness. Plus, as a female, there are plenty of predatorial types who I've seen take advantage of vulnerable newcomers (had some try with me). Or you get power trippers or people just flat out lying about their sobriety - I did heroin for the first and only time with some people from the meetings (which I take my share of responsibility for, but I was also near bottom at that point.) Again, I know some find solace and help in these groups, but I don't think it's the only solution out there and I feel it is unfortunate that it is pushed so emphatically by everyone from therapists to the court system as the end all be all for treatment. I think those there need to be more progressive approaches, b/c I know at least for me it's something I'll always have to stay honest about. I still use drugs, but am at a different place not only in age but in self-awareness and connectivity to those I know I can be open with without them becoming 'Big Book' thumpers.

What worked best for me was cutting ties from those who I knew would suck me back in to my most dangerous weaknesses (freebase cocaine). B/C that got to the point where I literally felt death was lurking in my shadows and I was weakened mentally, physically, spiritually (and I'm agnostic, so I mean more in a 'being a whole, aware person' sense), and relationship wise. I think it's a line you have to learn how to walk and what substances you can still enjoy and which ones eat away at who you are in your core. It's hard to keep yourself in check all the time, so I had to find someone like my husband who could call my bluff and who I could be honest with. That made a massive impact on my life and gave me something greater than myself to live for. But everyone is different and has to find out what that is to them personally.

I don't know if I'm making sense, but I related to a lot of what you said and hope that came across. I also hope I didn't offend anyone who has been helped by support groups. Thank you in a sense for helping me admit that I too in certain regards sought drugs. I think it was a way for me to externalize why I felt so crap about myself and b/c I felt misunderstood by my peers. Then, well, you know the rest (or at least part of it).

Okay, I'm rambling now, but good post and good discussions here on this thread. Thanks to all for engaging in an interesting and honest dialog. Discussions like this I think are very important, not to mention refreshing. It's helped me, at the very least, and I hope others as well. Cheers. :)
 
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Cheers Mr S, twas just curious. The chap I speak of was in a bad way so it was more than likely his body just gave up.

Could also be what Si mentions and the clinic not being fully aware of the extent but id suspect on the induction when asked about his drug intake he'd of been tempted to exaggerate a little to get more meds or at the very least give them the true extent.

Anyway, was a shame and upsetting to watch.

My condolences to you, ScotchMist. That's a horrible tragedy, particularly when he was in a 'safe' environment. I know there's not much I can say to help, but just know that my thoughts are with you. A lot of people underestimate the danger of Benzo withdrawal, but it is an alarmingly high risk ordeal. I am truly sorry about what happened.
 
My condolences to you, ScotchMist. That's a horrible tragedy, particularly when he was in a 'safe' environment. I know there's not much I can say to help, but just know that my thoughts are with you. A lot of people underestimate the danger of Benzo withdrawal, but it is an alarmingly high risk ordeal. I am truly sorry about what happened.
Sorry Sandy you've misunderstood, or more than likely I havent been clear, my heads not working at full steam of late... I didnt know the guy personally, he made recordings of his life as an addict, as a son and brother and it portrays the grim reality of addiction very well and its rippling effect away from the addict into their own family.. Obviously its very dark and depressing so its not an easy watch.

Heres the link should you feel the need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7thZbHTvZIQ&app=desktop
 
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