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Addiction

Very sorry to hear that Ismene, cant begin to imagine how that feels. <3 Puts my problems into perspective though.

Am I right in thinking you trip alone on these Saturday's? Im also a firm believer in psychedelics providing guidance and solutions to problems life can throw at us, I usually use acid, having tried dmt and mushrooms in the past I find lsd to be the best tool in the box, for me anyway.

I dont know much about A-Lad other than hes as close a relative to LSD as it can get. Would you say it has more value than lsd when used as a kind of mental tool?

I was joking about taking the whole stash I have, I would never dose that high when using it like this. Cant remember the last time I dosed that high just for kicks actually..! Id probably dose around the 150 mark tbh..

I may look into trying to get a hold of some a-lad actually as the shorter duration may be better for my already tired head... Ive always gone the illicit route but RC's have been grabbing my attention of late. Once ive kicked this addiction into touch I think psychedelics and ketamine used very occasionally are going to be all I use, nothing else seems to do it for me anymore.

Take it easy Ismene, I hope you find some peace and closure soon<3.. time and A-Lad are the best healer ;)
 
Something I've always wondered about is the difference between being an addict wanting to stop and an addict who is happy with their use. For example, I use ket all the time (between weekly and daily) and would consider myself an addict, but I like my habit and have no intention of stopping it. Same with weed I guess. Am I just an habitual user instead of an addict then?

That's exactly where i'm at right now with a bunch of different chemicals. In the 3 years leading up to last summer my usage gradually spiralled out of control, kind of like a ponzi scheme. I knew that what i was doing was unsustainable but having gone from ordering dodgy valiums from india and trammies from spain etc.. the burgeoning legal high scene was just too much to resist.

Right now I'm back using many of the chemicals that were my ultimate undoing over the 3 years i just referred too. However, having taken atleast 2 months of pure clean time since last summer i gradually been adding in my old fave's piece by piece. I still stay away from certain drugs like cocaine, alchohol and heroin from pervious bad experience, however i'm currently quite comfortable with my current usage of mxe, mpa, ethylphen, pyrazalom (and a little etiz and flubro though with massive caution). I've been highly conscious of the necessity for sleep. i'll still pull the occasional all nighter but those days of 3 to 4 days no sleep are definitely something i'm eager to leave in the past.

Being a daily user for last 12 years now i'm well aware that addiction is like looking in the rear view mirror. Is there anyone out there who can honestly say they saw there first addiction coming ahead of time? The good thing i find is that now i had a chance to clear my head i can use my past experience to sense the slightest sign that i'm moving from conscious intentional use to habitual addictive autopilot use. Today, for example, I consciously made the choice to not even contemplate the smallest dab of mxe as it has been my demon in the past, getting up to half a gram a day at my peak. It's just past 9pm and i havn't gone near the mexxy yet so experience seems to be paying off.

Anyone out there with a problem. You must take a break. I have personal experience with beating addictions as do many stalwarts on the forum, that's kind of why we're still here posting and not lying in a gutter somewhere, as some of us unfortunately know too well. Whether you taper down through help on BL or seek outside intervention, it is essential for any autopilot addict to make that transition back to the kind of intentional drug use Roganjosh and I have been talking about.
 
I can't be bothered to attempt to eloquently explain it like Stefan Molyneux, so here's his take on addiction and why some of us our more vulnerable to forming addictions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp4pEP3X_NY

So yeah, definitely watch this ScotchMist if you're all torn up and confused about your addiction. It'll really shed a lot of light on your problems and make your girlfriend's opinion seem somewhat ignorant. Not to say she hasn't been negatively affected.
 
Having been up since yesterday and currently dosing on etiz I confess to only having reached minute 12 of GodSpeedK's link. Am sure I will finish it off later today though. As a science guy myself I feel comfortable in vouching for the guys credentials. I maybe lean more towards the genetics than does Molyneux but I know of plenty top scientists who would not take my stance. This guy definitely knows his shit though, that's for sure. Well worth checking out the link. Nice one GodSpeedK.
 
Am I right in thinking you trip alone on these Saturday's? Im also a firm believer in psychedelics providing guidance and solutions to problems life can throw at us, I usually use acid, having tried dmt and mushrooms in the past I find lsd to be the best tool in the box, for me anyway.

Yeah scotch - always trip alone. I view it as time for my own private euphoria and giggles :D

I think al-lad has got to be up there with acid. Slightly different in that it seems to be totally positive. I can't imagine anyone having a "bad trip" with alan ladd. Just pure lysergic wonder.
 
Acid is beautiful. I like to split the dose, atleast 4 hours apart, maybe even drop a few more, then, over the next couple of days i like to bring the whole trip back to life with sporadic bumps of mxe.
 
Hey ubi, sorry to hear you're suffering. Hope that eases up sometime sooner rather than later.. glad some of what I said 'spoke' to you, not sure what advice I offered in my OP but you're more than welcome. I could of sworn it was me just wallowing in self pity..!

Yeh, the justification you come up with to use can be ridiculous to down right crazy.... thats what keeps us addicts though I guess, those delusional voices of reason.

I hope I can get back what ive lost, I hope I can give back what ive taken away also. Theres plenty more to lose though so now is time to get off before its catastrophic.! Easy said than done after so many years but if I ever needed a reason this is it..!

Its been a rough old day, alot of tears shed, anger, despair, fear... ill be glad to get my head down on the pillow.

All the best Ubi and good luck :)

Thanking you kindly for that. The advice I received was more of a knowledge that I'm not alone with what I'm enduring. That there are folks from all walks of life dealing with this stuff and addiction knows no boundaries.

I can also say that after reading what others posted, I am now craving something I haven't tried since I was a kid,well, teenager and that's acid or something of the like. I remember it always offered great insights. Don't know if its the best idea though. Must read more. Wouldn't know how to find it anyway.

Hey, hope this day is better than yesterday for you.
stay bright
ubi
 
It is a symptom of a malfunctioning repressive social system and cannot at all be cured with medication (other drugs).
 
I hate to disagree with Ismene, coz we rarely do, but I reckon we all got it in us. Maybe for you Is, the wine ain't it, maybe it ain't the coke, or the speed, or the pills or anything you've come across yet. It might be the one thing you havent come across yet, maybe it's crack or heroin or some drug you simply havent tried or one you can't afford to use regularly enough to become habituated by..?

Maybe some people are even strong enough as individuals to resist the temptation of compulsive use of something addictive, but that's just management then.

But either way, I reckon we all got the danger of addiction & compulsion in us & we're just lucky if we never come across that drug/susbtance that lures us in & keeps us lured...

Just my opinion, not something I feel I can back up with any evidence, like.
 
The only difference between an addict and a dabbler is self respect and work ethic. Not a single drug hooks you from the first hit. Not even the second. There will always be that instance though when an addict had to choose taking a drug over something mundane. I'm not saying once addicted it is easier to quit, rather that addiction initially is a choice, one that many of you unfortunately failed to see the implications until it was too late.
 
Addiction is a choice. We are creatures of habit. Wired for repetitive behaviour. Which obviously lends itself to being vulnerable to what is called addiction.

The real problem lays in how addictions, various addictions, are seen and managed by society.
 
I hate to disagree with Ismene, coz we rarely do, but I reckon we all got it in us. Maybe for you Is, the wine ain't it, maybe it ain't the coke, or the speed, or the pills or anything you've come across yet. It might be the one thing you havent come across yet, maybe it's crack or heroin or some drug you simply havent tried or one you can't afford to use regularly enough to become habituated by..?

I dunno Si - getting addicted to a drug, even theoretically "addictive" drugs like heroin, doesn't happen overnight. It needs a grim determination to keep taking the drug every day for weeks if not months on end. I don't think everyone has that kind of dedication.
 
But we, society, choose to put negative spin on some of the unfortunate side effects of some drugs and behaviours than we do on others.

My sister was addicted to coffee and cigarettes for thirty years. She lived on fuck all else. It was a consequence of weight gain she had in her teens, weight gain she swore never to repeat (and why do you think that was? Something to do with society's ruling of our body images perchance?) Anyway, those addictions never got her into trouble with society, she never had to hide her caffeine consumption from anyone. Fuck, in recent times we've even started building shrines to such things (Costa something or other they call them)

So her addictions were indeed to hide internal pain (at the perception of her body image). But her addictions were never seen as unfortunate by society. They were positively encouraged by society.

Creatures. Of. Habit.
 
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"So long as we have failed to eliminate any of the causes of human despair we do not have the right to try to eliminate those means by which man tries to cleanse himself of despair" - Artaud
 
There are different ways to eliminate despair. Substances of choice are a short term immediate apparent sticking plaster. They are not the solution, we all know the alternatives, clean healthy living, exercise, good sleep and healthy diet. It's far from an instant fix though, it requires a lot of patience and perserverence and you really have to put a lot of effort in. There are no instant fixes which is what you can get psychologically if not truly physically addicted to (in some cases.)
 
It does say "by which man tries to cleanse himself"

It's a statement against persecuting the drug user who chooses to use drugs for that purpose.
 
Im ScotchMist, im still an addict ;)

I really don't know if its a choice, obviously it is but what is it in some people, myself included that fuels that compulsion to keep on doing it... I knew heroin was bad news, I wasnt completely ignorant, why did I feel the need to keep putting it In me when others didnt???

We've all got our problems, I know people who'd cope with my problems without batting an eyelid, they aint drug addicts. I obsess over things other than drugs... whys that??? Whatever I do, I have to hammer it...

With regards that video GodspeedK posted, I watched 20 minutes of it before the intermittent connection finally pissed me off. From what I saw he was blaming addiction on abuse as a child in one form or another. As far as im aware my infancy was normal and loving and my childhood that I remember certainly was, so how does that explain my "brain damage"? Im sure he knows his stuff but he seems to be only explaining the very extreme. Or have I missed something???
 
I've gone back and forth for years over whether I think of addiction as being an illness or disease of some sort or more of a purely behavioural issue, I think I'm probably leaning more toward the former if only for lack of anything more appropriate to categorise it as. It's certainly not as simple as being an option some people choose to take then plead 'but I've got a disease' to minimise. Given the way addictions tend to tear up lives in the most unpleasant ways imaginable it just doesn't make any sense that way - nobody would choose to live the life of serious addiction. But if a disease then what is the cause? It's unlikely to be a nasty lil bug that can be cleared up with a course of anti-bios - although it can be oddly contagious in some situations, I've certainly see people "catch it" from spending too much time around addicts, but I'm pretty sure there would be much the same going on for them beneath the surface as there is for anybody else who becomes an addict. I suspect there is a genetic component as I'm sure we all know families who are riddled with addictions over generations, but I don't think it's purely a genetic thing by any means. I'd go with it being a combination of genetic predisposition combining with social and environmental factors as being the set-up that breeds addictions best. I'd also suspect that will only be the situation most likely to produce addictions but by no means the only way a person could become addicted.

One factor that interests me that I've not seen mentioned yet is the oft-suggested "addictive personality". Another of those rather controversial theories surrounding addiction which I've to'd and fro'd over for years. Again, I think I'm mostly at the toing end currently. Some people really do seem to have a strong tendency towards addiction to just about anything it's possible to become addicted to. Whilst there are people who have a particular issue with, say, heroin but will never develop similar issues with alcohol, there are also people who will develop issues with virtually anything they can lay hands on and tend to switch back and forth from addiction to addiction - often juggling several concurrently. Addicted to addiction, as it were. I'd put myself in the latter category simply going by experience and evidence - that is exactly what has been the case for me for as long as I can remember. Even before substances being in the picture I can recognise in hindsight very similar patterns of behaviour in regards to other things in life. A tendency towards repetitive, self-destructive actions with very obsessive tendencies. Looking back I can see clear similarities when looking at various things I got up to in childhood - stuff everybody would do but I seemed to do in rather different ways and tended to take a lot further than anybody I knew. Thinking about it, they would all be things with relatively significant risk factors with instant reward provided upon completing the behaviour which can be repeated as often as desired. For me, shoplifting would've been one - most kids go through a bit of a phase but I seemed to take it a helluva lot further than anybody I knew and, although the 'stuff' was nice cos I didn't have much 'stuff' as a child, it was far more about the buzz. Oddly enough reading would be another that leaps to mind, largely (probably entirely) down to very specific circumstances (reading in bed was utterly forbidden in my childhood and punishable by quite a beating, I have always loved to read and the addition of fairly significant risk factors involved in a pleasurable activity turned it into something other than 'normal' - I would go to extraordinary lengths to read anything whether I had any real interest in reading the particular thing or not, once again it was the risk/reward thing - presumably somewhat similar to the dopaminergic effects of true addictions). I'm not saying I was actually addicted to these - or other (computer games are another that leap to mind in my childhood case) - behaviours, but I do suspect there is an underlying connection tied up with basic neurochemistry stuff with those pesky environmental issues on the side.

I'll stop rambling for a bit - is a subject of some significant interest to me - and leave it for now by wishing you well with any treatment you seek, SM - I can say from experience that a good drug counsellor (or similar role depending on specific circumstance) is worth their weight in gold. A bad one can put you off seeking treatment for life so don't give up if lumbered with a moron first time out cos there are plenty pisspoor counsellors out there, but also plenty brilliant ones. It's well worth making the effort (when in position to actually exercise any real choice, which can vary a bit but should be broadly possible in our whizzy communications technologies age) to find somebody you really click with and can work together with. The issues surrounding addiction tend to be rather personal and often difficult to discuss so it makes an enormous difference who it is you are working with. The more comfortable you are the more honest you can be and the more chance you have of making good progress.

Good luck with any treatment sought and with g/f and family issues - it's hard on partners and close relationships in general too. There are actually services to support those around an addict too if it seems at all appropriate to you. I can't actually think of any off the top of my head but there are a fair few out there and should be easy enough to find out what's available to you locally. Do feel free to drop me a PM if you like - addiction is a thing I'm very familiar with and, although I have no magic remedies any more than anybody else does, I do have a fair bit of experience and is often good to compare notes with people in similar situation.

Another thing about addiction is that addiction, itself, is addictive. We can get used to nearly any sort of miserable life. Whatever mind set we are most used to is probably the one we will feel most comfortable with. E.g. even if "your" life had always been a living hell when an opportunity comes along where there is the option to choose for a better life then one might not necessarily make that choice because we like what is familiar. Better the devil you know n all that.

This is an odd thing but also a true thing. It's amazing what a person can adapt to to the point it becomes completely normal and even - in a very strange way - desirable. I do think it's the familiarity thing more than a genuine fondness for living in shit though. Fear of change is a very common thing and it works the same even when you are pretty damn sure the change is gonna be for the better.

Addiction inb my eyes and true addiction that is, is being hooked a on a substance you need to take daily in order to feel 'normal' and without it you have will suffer w/d symoptons.

I think that's a rather too narrow definition myself. Yes there is an added component to truly physical addictions (the type your body lets you know all about when trying to quit) but there are other addictions which don't necessarily come with a traditional w/d syndrome that still produce the same changes in brain chemistry that defines an addiction. I think I'd just go with defining addiction as a behaviour you feel you simply cannot stop - despite numerous genuine attempts to stop - where that behaviour is causing you problems in the rest of your life. Without the accompanying spin-off associated life problems I'd define it more as a dependency perhaps. Like you can be physically dependent on, say, antidepressants but you wouldn't really think of it as an addiction - you just have to take them every day to not feel terrible and go into withdrawal.

I dunno Si - getting addicted to a drug, even theoretically "addictive" drugs like heroin, doesn't happen overnight. It needs a grim determination to keep taking the drug every day for weeks if not months on end. I don't think everyone has that kind of dedication.

There is certainly some truth to this - you really don't get addicted to any drug without some pretty prolonged use and it's kinda hard for anybody to claim they didn't know there would be a risk of addiction. I think a lot of people underestimate what addiction is and overestimate their own abilities to shake it off in the early stages before it really beds in - it's probably the thing that I've seen catch most people out more than anything else. I think there are other things that need to be taken into account too though. I've always been very big on pointing out environmental and/or social changes being a major factor that most people overlook and many people will be caught out by. My own situation is an obvious example but I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty other addicts who got nobbled in similar fashion. A person can use an addictive substance - any addictive substance - for years without ever developing an addiction if they are extremely cautious about taking breaks. Like you drinking your glass of wine everyday but not drinking a bottle of wine everyday (I'm pretty sure your "I can't get addicted to anything" stance would change if you tried that for any significant period of time). Life is unstable and can really pull the rug out from under sometimes though and it's that that makes the tipping point. Caught off-guard and maybe at an acutely low point physically, emotionally, psychologically, any or all of the afore, it's incredibly easy for your perceptions of whatever addictive substance you've used successfully without ever seeing the underlying teeth of. Instead of pure recreation or euphoria or whatever the prior reasons for use were it's very easy to start using more for escapism or comfort or support. Or likely a combination of things cos most addictive drugs are kinda seductive on many levels by nature. When a person's life changes suddenly, unexpectedly and dramatically for the worse - and they have access to and history with addictive substances - the chances of their patterns of use to slide over to the addictive side of the spectrum multiply exponentially (imo, ime, ymm(bpw)v, etc, etc).
 
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