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Kratom The Kratom Megathread

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Yeah, I'm far more concerned about head shops selling these than I am things like UEI or gold reserve being available online.

I'm currently looking for an extract technique for mitragynine. I'm intrigued by the possible semi synthetics, and given that there should be 20g of mitragynine in a kilogram of leaf, the potential to convert that to something 17x stronger than morphine could mean that I could maintain on the equivalent of 100mg morphine BID for 4.6 years, and even 3.6 years if you figure that I'd take 8 doses between Sat and Sun instead of 4. Additionally, I suspect that mitragynine may not cause tolerance the same way given that one study found that coadministration of mitragynine with morphine prevents tolerance. Hard to beat that, right?

This isn't an easy thing to do, the extraction will be difficult, especially on that scale, and to get the proper purity. I think it's worth doing though
 
I've tried kratom at least 10 times over the years using different brands and recipes etc and only once had a truely worthwhile experience.

Can someone who is an avid kratom user tell me their best method to get an optimal exerience including dosage (I am quite tolerant)

I don't know the rules on sourcing legals here on BL, but if it's possible can someone tell me the best type of kratom and which vendor to buy it from in the UK?

Thanks
 
Ziiirp said:
You are horribly misinformed. Mitragynine has 0.5 the potency of morphine...

*facepalm
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Read his post again, he said *convert* mitragynine into something 17x more potent than mitragynine... *facepalm

If you can get that extraction done right it would be worth it but it would suck to lose a whole kilo worth of product due to any mistake. How to you plan on extracting only mitragynine without pulling other alkaloids? And what exactly do you plan on converting the mitragynine into? Oxindole?
 
CaptainKratom said:
Read his post again, he said *convert* mitragynine into something 17x more potent than mitragynine... *facepalm

If you can get that extraction done right it would be worth it but it would suck to lose a whole kilo worth of product due to any mistake. How to you plan on extracting only mitragynine without pulling other alkaloids? And what exactly do you plan on converting the mitragynine into? Oxindole?
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But what does stronger mean, if not more potent ? Morphine has ~2 times the potency of mitragynine per mg in vitro. If you crave heroin, then buy heroin. *facepalm

Ah okay, he meant ***magically convert*** it to 7-ho-mitragynine. I think with his lack of knowledge, he will end up with something similar to Krokodil. I wish him a good time consuming it ... Sekio, where are you ? 8(
 
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Your not very informed on mitragynine or it's analogs are you? With a bit of chemistry knowledge you can create mitragynine analogs far more potent and unique to morphine, pseudoindoxyl is one of the more well known analogs used to adulterate extract hence why extracts are far stronger than any amount of kratom. But as far as what analog he's trying to whip up idk.... "why not buy heroin?", that's lke telling an oxy user why not buy heroin or an opana user why not buy heroin... why not buy heroin? Because not all opioids are the same and what hammilton is attempting to do is fairly untreaded ground and IMO a fascinating exploration of potentially new opioids (or pseudo-opioids I guess) derived from kratom instead of opium.
 
Awe, you appear so informed (talking about analogues != being able to initiate the reactions correctly). How much Kratom do I have to ingest to reach this superhuman tier of fairytale knowledge ?

Okay, then I might be the only one in this thread, who is willing to prevent a user from dying of necrosis or other complications as a consequence of unqualified laymen chemnistry...
 
Necrosis huh, so tell me how do you even know what solvents he's gonna use, what process he's gonna use that would cause such adverse effects, or what by products their will be if you don't even know what chemical he's going to make? No offense but you sound like a smart ass who doesn't belong in this thread. Kick rocks... What makes you think he doesn't know what he's doing? Because you misread his post? BTW you get knowledge from doing research, something you haven't done on the subject obviously 8)
 
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Ziiirp said:
Awe, you appear so informed (talking about analogues != being able to initiate the reactions correctly). How much Kratom do I have to ingest to reach this superhuman tier of fairytale knowledge ?

Okay, then I might be the only one in this thread, who is willing to prevent a user from dying of necrosis or other complications as a consequence of unqualified laymen chemnistry...
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You sir seem like an asshole and aren't contributing to the thread with this post at all. If you want to be an asshole go do it in the lounge or something.
 
Of all the people to be doing this, I think Hammilton is probably qualified enough to assess risk.

The extraction of kratom can be done on a reasonable scale if you're equipped with enough solvents and are patient. There's a Malay protocol for isolating crude ~70% mitragynine from kratom leaf by a solvent extraction which can be recrystallised multiple times from hexane to 90% to >99% pure mitragynine if you so choose. If you have TLC plates to "check your work" it also helps a lot. The yield is pretty good, something like 2% of the 70% purity alkaloid extract from ~300 grams of leaf.

I'm pretty sure it's a patience game; the kratom leaf likes to hold onto the alkaloids pretty tightly - QWISO type stuff isn't going to work.

If you can get mitragynine out of the leaf then there's no reason you couldn't find a protocol to gently oxidise it to the oxindole or the 7-hydroxy compound. Again, you just have to have the right equipment and a bit of patience and persistence. Hit the literature, Reaxys, Scifinder. Preferably some TLC plates. Recrystallise or chromatograph to purify.

AFAICT nobody is proposing a shake-and-bake meth or krokodil type gutter synthesis, and neither should they be.

Also: mitragynine may be half as strong as morphine IV, but it's got much better oral absorbtion.
 
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Thanks for the vote of confidence sek.

Whether I'm capable of the synthesis or not remains to be seen, however I am fully capable of assessing the risks and ensuring the quality of my work.

Jay z said don't argue with fools cuz people from a distance may not know who is who
 
CaptainKratom said:
I started out with CK when I barely found out about kratom, I saw it when I went to my local to buy a pipe years ago... trust me, while it's not totally bunk it's probably around 75% as potent as standard online plain leaf and costs an insane amount of money, btw price discussion isn't allowed so I would edit that out before you get in trouble ;). I can't reccomend enough that you switch to buying your kratom online, you can get like 3oz for the price of that 15g bag. Also, the main reason many kratom users are against HS products is that they get lumped in with the bath salts and synthetic cannabinoid blends when it comes to bans and this brings unnecessary attention to this lovely plant.
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This. Plus one should get it from as close to the source as possible IMO, because, besides the price thing (which can differ tremendously), the Kratom most HSs sell isn't as fresh and therefore less potent (who knows how long it has been lying on a shelf). Or what cheap low grade material they bought or cut it with, selling it under another, often 'cool' sounding hyped up name.
 
I'm binging on UEI today then going back to plain leaf tomorrow. I didn't notice a decrease in effectiveness when I took my four gram morning dose the other day so I don't think I've ruined plain leaf.

I think more likely I'll have raised my tolerance temporarily, but it'll come back down as I maintain one dose again for a few days or weeks. I think people think they've ruined it when they go back and notice that it's maybe not quite as effective and immediately go back to UEI, where if they held out for a few days they would get effects again.

I've noticed that after an oxy binge or a couple mg of bupe that kratom won't be quite so effective, but after three days things go back to normal. It's not as if there is something specially receptor damaging about uei that means you couldn't go back. It may take a bit, but I don't think it can actually ruin it. I know I didn't enjoy kratom while I was first withdrawing from subs, but did after a couple weeks.
 
I posted this in the UEI tr thread but it's still relevant here...

These extracts won't permanently jack up your tolerance but after a couple days of UEI my plain leaf dose is litterally like 70% as potent. It's when you start using them for weeks (or 1 week in my case) plain leaf didn't do fuck all, totally worthless and increasing the dose made me jittery and anxious. Of course there was no permanent effect but I needed to go a couple days (thank god for it's ultra short HL) without any kratom to bring my tolerance down to achieve my usual results. Another thing I noticed when binging on extracts and taking breaks, when I resume taking plain leaf my tolerance would rise RAPIDLY which is unusual for me as I've always found kratom tolerance to build very slow. In the end though these extracts are fucking amazing but when abused they seem to have affected the way my tolerance builds, ymmv of course.
 
oh just an update... I officially quit kratom.. (i think.. its been over 20 days clean..) the energy is coming back... the restless legs at times are the worst.. and I use requip with success about half the time... Occasional benzos still.. really looking forward to summer without a habit.
 
Hammilton said:
I'm binging on UEI today then going back to plain leaf tomorrow. I didn't notice a decrease in effectiveness when I took my four gram morning dose the other day so I don't think I've ruined plain leaf.

I think more likely I'll have raised my tolerance temporarily, but it'll come back down as I maintain one dose again for a few days or weeks. I think people think they've ruined it when they go back and notice that it's maybe not quite as effective and immediately go back to UEI, where if they held out for a few days they would get effects again.

I've noticed that after an oxy binge or a couple mg of bupe that kratom won't be quite so effective, but after three days things go back to normal. It's not as if there is something specially receptor damaging about uei that means you couldn't go back. It may take a bit, but I don't think it can actually ruin it. I know I didn't enjoy kratom while I was first withdrawing from subs, but did after a couple weeks.
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I agree 100%. Its easy to make that assuption when one gets used to the stronger and more euphoric effects of an extract then their PL dose doesnt do anything for a week. A little bit of self control will have your PL dose effective again. This is the reason i stay with PL 100% of the time now. PL kratom is such a great thing, a very manageable habit with great life/mood enhancing properties, not to mention the pain releif which is very helpful.
I use kratom to combat moderate social anxiety, treatment resistant depression, and multiple shoulder injuries from sports. I wouldnt be successful in life without kratom. To me, a few days of recreational extract isnt worth messing with the great things PL kratom does for me.
Extracts have their place, like helping heavy opiate users transition into PL kratom. But I see more problems with the extracts and would rather them be less available. Extracts are more recreational and can bring the type of people (the ones just trying to get fucked up without needing the medicinal properties) into the kratom community that will eventually cause problems with legality. Not saying that if you use extracts you're a bad person, its just the fact that leading a functional life with PL kratom is much easier in many ways.
 
I take the same attitude, my newfound love of Kratom has caused an aversion to anything stronger for fear of increasing tolerance.
 
So If you have a little to no opiate tolerance and never really dabble with it...and I was to get plain kratom from a good online store....

Would a good starting dose be around 3g on an empty stomach?

Should I take it with any type of juice?

How long does it usually last?

And how many times can I take it per week to keep the tolerance low?
 
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