Opioids 17 Days free of Methadone (How long to feel normal?)

[EatClenTrenHard]

I've read countless diaries though of people claiming it took 6 months for acute withdrawals to go away


i need to remain strong. If tomorrow im not absolutely miserable when i wake up, which is have a feeling might happen though, ill be hopeful. If i wake up in full blown withdrawal, well, idk folks. If that were the case, i would prob take .25mg suboxone for a day or two

 

[BlueHues]

Taking any opiate at any dose will set you back, and possibly reset the whole thing if it's more than a one time thing.(sometimes even if it is a one time thing).

The only way that it makes sense to jump from one opioid to another, is if you're jumping to a lower equivalent dose than the one you're dependent on.

This is universally known to be true by everyone who actually has any idea what they're talking about. Starting a "taper" with another opioid after you're past the acute withdrawal phase is probably the absolute worst idea there is, short of going back to using your drug of choice.

 

[EatClenTrenHard]

^^ that's what i figured, i just meant if it puts me in full blown heroin withdrawal, ill take a very very small amount of suboxone, otherwise im sure to use again cause i cant take full blown w/d's.

You think that using heroin would set the methadone withdrawals back, rather than just adding heroin withdrawals on top ? Otherwise the theory would hold true towards someone constantly using heroin to get past methadone withdrawals, but still suffering 2 months of methadone withdrawals after stopping the heroin, which doesn't seem right (in my opinion)

Man, i wish scientists and researches had exact answers for every single opiate predicament lol

 

[BlueHues]

^Okay, I might not have been completely clear...If you find yourself in acute withdrawal 24 hours from now, that means you're pretty much back to "square one"..You might not be facing as long and painful a detox as when you stopped the methadone, but as far as you're brain and body is concerned, you're back dependent on opiates...

It might be a "cold turkey heroin" withdrawal, it might be a lighter, shorter methadone withdrawal, it might be something in between..nobody has any idea..

The quickest way out of it is always just to stop taking any opioids whatsoever, and using other comfort meds..The question is: Will that be tolerable? If it's not, you may decide to do a long taper again, in which case, you'll end up dealing with all the discomfort when you reach the end that you were dealing with this time!

You should know within 48 hours where you're at with this...If you feel kind of shitty still, but it's not full-blown, you'd be nuts to put any other opioids in you. If it's fucking horrible and you can't take it, it's better to do a long taper than go back to getting high...

If you can go to a 5-7 day detox, but only do the "clonidine protocol", or have those meds prescribed, that would be your best bet...time wise!

So, taking any opioid will definitely set you back, and if you just want this to end, would be a bad idea...but you might find that you want to "set yourself back" and go in for another landing in a month or so...

So, there is no "one way" to do this, but unless the withdrawals are completely unbearable, I'd personally try to stick it out at all costs!

 

[EatClenTrenHard]

^ thankyou for taking the time to post such great advice man. It definately helps me mentally to have people respond to me and give support/advice. I realize if i haven't already depressingly ruined my whopping 51 days of progress all for nothing, that most likely a 3rd use of opiates anytime soon would definately do me in.

I'm going to fight this with everything i have. I refuse to turn back. Fuck. I need to be strong.

 

[somnilicious]

It won't reset your whole methadone withdrawal. You will most likely just have a very short and light opiate withdrawal. I just came off methadone and have been dealing with the exact same thing. It will be your normal 3-4 day withdrawal and the length and intensity will increase depending on how much you use and how often.

Don't stress out or think that everything you have done is for nothing. I can see the bricks you are starting to lay in your mind. If you aren't careful you are going to build a wall and you will run into it. The important thing is to not work yourself up into a defeatist frenzy. If you keep making the possible withdrawal into some insurmountable mountain than you will scare yourself into quitting and using. Then you will most certainly go backwards and find yourself a full blown heroin addict.

I think something needs to be clarified for other people. Acute withdrawal in the traditional sense that is usually understood is only half the story with methadone. After the first 3weeks or so when the worst withdrawal is over you still won't be able to sleep. Your skin will still crawl and your nerves will feel like electricity is shooting all over your body. The lethargy and depression still persist and your mind still feels like a clouded mess. Now you can call this PAWS or what ever the hell you want but to the person experiencing them this might as well still be a stage of withdrawal because it is very real and I can tell you from experience that it is very unpleasant.

Now Eclen just stay with us buddy. There is no square one in this thing only the place you are at right now. It will get better in 3-5 days and it shouldn't be that intense but if you do keep using I can ensure you it will get worse. I am here if you need to talk.

 

[EatClenTrenHard]

Probably the best post i've read ^. Thankyou man. You're absolutely correct, ill just tough out these next few days until im back on schedule in detox. I noticed heroin sticks around a good 24+ hours when you have no tolerance. Even this morning i can still feel some withdrawals being masked. Though i still dont feel perfect. I know tomrorow ill prob feel more of the methadone withdrawals back.

Using just made me realize how pleasant life can be, though i was high, i remember now what its like to feel normal, and WOW do i want it even more now.

I always thought paws was just the mental depression and fatigue, but it sucks that even after 52 days i still have extreme cold chills, anxiety, lack of sleep, diahreaa, inability to go more than 2 hours without weed/feeling shitty, constant loud heavy heart beat (i think this is caused by taking clonidine for 40 days then stopping, and going a few days without taking it, causing withdrawals/rebound hypertension. Apparently it has this effect when stopped abruptly.)

 

[EatClenTrenHard]

Bad news everyone.

Today, day 54, after already having increased withdrawals due to using twice in the past week, i awoke this morning at 3am with horrendous stomache pains, then quickly found out i had yet again gotten the dreaded Noro Virus (got it last year too, it was horrendous...)

Then began the constant vomitting and insane diahreea, along with fever/chills, shaking, insane heartbeat, and just felt unbearably bad. I immediately went and grabbed dope. I literally couldNOT handle it. Period. It was bad.

Now im fucked.. but im gonna fight through it. I want sobriety.

 

[BlueHues]

^Damn dude, I'm sorry to hear that...I don't really know what advice to give you...maybe do another methadone taper? Deal with the virus thing first...obviously, it's probably a bad idea to get back into heroin while you're going through that..

So, I guess that leaves you with taking a low dose bupe or low dose methadone, and the doing another taper when you feel better...

That's what I would probably do...

 

[EatClenTrenHard]

you think this 3rd use in a week is going to send me deep into withdrawals ? Does that just add a week of misery, then back to methadone withdrawls? or did i ruin the whole 53 days off methadone ?

how does it switch between long acting withdrawls and short heroin withdrawls ???


if i do get fucked, im thinking either suboxone at .25-.5mg every other day for just 3 days

 

[nick who?]

Didnt have time to read through the responses, and i'm sure i'm not the first one to say this, but theres no such thing as normal, and i dont mean your doomed to be depressed and in pain and craving the rest of your life, it just means your new normal is going to be different then your old normal, and chances are the way are addict minds work is we remember normal WAY better then it actually was, the way you think reflects on the way you feel. Stay positive and just keep it up one day at a time and you will create a new normal, that will be the first step to the rest of your life, good luck brother.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

you think this 3rd use in a week is going to send me deep into withdrawals ? Does that just add a week of misery, then back to methadone withdrawls? or did i ruin the whole 53 days off methadone ?

how does it switch between long acting withdrawls and short heroin withdrawls ???


if i do get fucked, im thinking either suboxone at .25-.5mg every other day for just 3 days

You have to decide if you really want to be sober man.. You've come so far, don't throw it away now. If you keep relapsing, your withdrawals will continue to get worse, and eventually you'll just start using full time again and be back to where you were.

A short, low dose bupe taper, might be a good idea. But, only if you stop relapsing man.. otherwise it's all pointless.

 

[crzydiamond]

Sorry to hear of one more struggle...

Question is this though: had you gotten this virus 3 months into sobriety and feeling "normal", would your response have been to use heroin? What about 2 years clean?

Maybe. But most likely not. Having used twice this week sets those damn little receptors up to their tricks of using any and every "reason" to talk yourself into using. Regular people get sick. They don't search out dope when they do.

Like posters above said: you have to decide if you want to be clean. At any n all costs. If its feeling somewhat yucky for a few more weeks, are you willing to do that? Or having felt that dope high again, is being clean something you want...but not bad enough? You have to be 100% committed. Not less.

Or maybe it's not time for you yet. Maybe you should consider a low maintenance (bupe or MMT). Only you can answer that. I personally relapsed about 2 yrs ago after 9 years clean ( after my cold turkey methadone detox). I went into detox twice, was physically better but that craving had awoken. I put myself back in the clinic. For me, at that point, the right choice.

Only you know what will work for you. And when the time is right. It's not a failure if you go back on a maintenance drug. You can always try again. And it's way better than a full blown heroin addiction. Which won't be far off if you keep playing with fire

I hope the best for you...and hope you feel better soon. Just giving my honest take from following this thread

 

[EatClenTrenHard]

I definitely want sobriety. If I felt normal there would've been no way I would've used.. no way in hell. But added with the already shitty feeling of methadone withdrawals, it was too much.

I'n going to fight through this. I'm terrified of wasting almost 2 months. The only way I'd hop on suboxone is if withdrawals became full blown. Otherwise fuck that, I'm gonna get through this. I want freedom

 

[crzydiamond]

Cool, I really hope you get thru this. I give u a lot of respect for struggling through it. I know first hand it's not easy.

I have to say though...your comments about being strong remind me of something funny :
"If you want a comparison of how well willpower works for addiction, give someone a big dose of a strong laxative. See how well WILLPOWER works for them..."

I heard that one time n it cracked me up. Hope you get a laugh for the day

 

[somnilicious]

Didnt have time to read through the responses, and i'm sure i'm not the first one to say this, but theres no such thing as normal, and i dont mean your doomed to be depressed and in pain and craving the rest of your life, it just means your new normal is going to be different then your old normal, and chances are the way are addict minds work is we remember normal WAY better then it actually was, the way you think reflects on the way you feel. Stay positive and just keep it up one day at a time and you will create a new normal, that will be the first step to the rest of your life, good luck brother.

This is so true. Your attitude will greatly affect how you feel. The reality of the situation is that normal will be very different than we remember it being. You will not just wake up and be happy. Happiness doesn't just fall on anybody's doorstep. You will have to work hard for it and in the beginning it will be very difficult to obtain.

You will have to start forcing yourself to do physical and mental activities. This will feel like a chore because your dopamine levels are low and motivation and reward will be almost non existent. Eventually over time your brain will form new neural pathways with slowly replenishing dopamine levels and these hobbies and physical activities will start to be associated with pleasure. This will make you feel good but in the beginning you will have to aggressively pursue these activities without the payoff. This will make it seem like you will never experience happiness again but over time you will find things that are fulfilling and the new neural pathway will start to open your brain to new ways of achieving happiness without drugs.

The road to recovery is hard work. It is not just getting over the withdrawal but learning how to live without drugs. The brain is very elastic and the pathways that our brain builds everyday are constructed through experience. Unfortunately you will have to learn to be happy all over again. It will be slow but the brain will start to associate your new activities with pleasure. It will never be like the artificial pleasure that drugs gave us and it will be slow to come and difficult to detect because the brain will have to learn what is now important and calls for dopamine release but eventually you will start to find a new definition of happiness and "normal". Opiates are almost as reinforcing as the need for food and other vital survival instincts so it will take a lot of time and work to rewire your brain into excepting reward from the new activities. This is made even more difficult because we find even easy tasks can be difficult to process but fortunately the brain constantly evolves to adjust to new situations and happiness will come if we work to get it.

I would honestly not take methadone or subs to detox unless you fall back into prolonged heroin usage again and even then I myself am very hesitant to take either methadone or subs again. I just find the withdrawal from short acting opiates much easier to handle. If you do feel that it necessary to take either I would choose an extremely short low dose sub taper like the one you mentioned.

Your lapses are troubling and not to be taken lightly. They would eventually take you back to full blown heroin addiction but it is important not to magnify the possible withdrawal. I know you are tired of feeling like shit and the fact that you must now face some acute withdrawal and PAWS all over again will start to make you feel worn down and exhausted. Just don't give up or start to justify your usage( i.e. as a much needed break from withdrawal.) The temporary reprieve and sleep will not be worth the consequences and will turn a marathon into a grueling nonstop coast to coast run.

I am not the biggest proponent of AA/NA but I do believe that each has its place and I recommend you get involved. It is up to you how much you buy into the program but the meetings and fellowship are very helpful in dealing with cravings and getting yourself on the right path towards mental recovery. I know you already exercise which is very important to physical and mental recovery. If you only work out in the gym I would recommend you do some kind of outdoor exercise because it seems to be especially conducive to mental recovery. I prefer biking because it is fast moving, low impact and gives me a sense of freedom(swimming is also a favorite of mine).

Just keep your eyes on your goal and prepare a plan for relapse. When you do relapse adjust your plan accordingly. Sorry to be redundant but Staying active and being proactive in the pursuit of happiness is paramount . All this stuff is very cliché but sometimes a cliché is a cliché for a reason. Fake it till you make it. Force yourself to start doing things even if the thought is repulsive. Eventually these activities will become reinforced by our bodies natural dopamine pathways and then you will start to find your new happiness. Lets do this EClen. Life is what you and I make of it.

 

[Princess_Poppy]

happened upon bl today and this one caught my eye. i am not very active here, but i have lived what u r going through. i hatched some nutty plan to stop methadone at 70mg, do dope for a week, and then induct subs. STILL GOT SICK, even after 7 days... think it was the fact i was on 70mg. dumb, dumb, dumb. did subs for 2 months (i think), got down to way less than 1mg and QUIT. MOVED. COLD TURKEY. NO COMFORT MEDS. i have a feeling ur wds r/were worse since u came straight off done. but, i was on the clinic 2 yrs, on dope years before that. then i took the subs a couple months. the internet can scare u if u read about coming off long term maintenance. i did experience about 3 months of unpleasantness, but the last month was really just being sneezy, not sleeping great, and lethargy. after that 3 months, i woke up fine. just one day, i felt NORMAL. the sun was brighter, my mood was BETTER, and being clean, felt great.

i have since relapsed and am working really hard to get back to sobriety. ur doing good. i would have never made it that 3 months if i hadn't isolated myself in the fucking woods! lol. i don't think u will experience wds much longer. i didn't even really have "PAWS" after the the initial 3 month wd. i only relapsed because i thought i was ready to hang out with old friends (my fault, not theirs) i'll try to be more active here. i need some community myself. pm me if u have questions

 

[poppyplanet]

^^^

Ahh. Got the dreaded "free-tox" eh? Brutal. That shit always sucks.

Yes, it was awful. I honestly think I went into shock. I remember all of my walks to the bathroom and my brain was getting zapped. Just shaking all the way down the hall. The entire time I was just thinking sooner or later, my hearts going to stop.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Did you make it through it and get better eventually? Or did you start using again or something?

 

[poppyplanet]

^^

Did you make it through it and get better eventually? Or did you start using again or something?

Yeah it was on the 33rd day that I felt a dramatic change. It was like night and day. I did continue using heroin for a while after that(this was when I was in my mid 20's, 32 now). Lately, for the past few years, I've been taking suboxone daily. The reason I thought my heart would stop is because of my hypertension and enlarged heart which scare me now a days because sometimes I run out of my suboxone as I'm not prescribed it. I kind of over wore my welcome with all of my local suboxone doctors so none will see me anymore. Long story. But yeah, they eventually went away. I only had weed at the time which helped a lot. I went to the ER after the 2nd week of going threw it and they just gave me clonidine which did absolutely nothing for my chills. I remember the nurse saying to me "well hun at least its hot outside". She saw me shaking because of how cold I was but obviously didn't realize that it's an internal chill that weather, blankets, or clonidine couldn't get rid of.