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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

What's the score with Ukraine?

Try Al Jazeera if you haven't already.

Can't say you'll get the 'real' picture of what's going on, but you'll get a different perspective at least. Oh, and maybe a pic of Zeynep Zileli Rabanea if you're lucky:

zeynep.jpg


But she's all mine. Okay?
 
I didn't actually. She actually looks vaguely familiar. Think I may have a cousin who looks similar. Making it doubly icksome. Or doubly intriguing, as you see fit. Too young-looking for me. Not really one for the young 'uns. With the very occasional exception. Come back with another pic in 10-20y time and then you're talking ;)
 
Shambles said:
I didn't actually. She actually looks vaguely familiar. Think I may have a cousin who looks similar. Making it doubly icksome. Or doubly intriguing, as you see fit.
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Doubly intriguing. Definitely! :o

I bet she's actually about thirty, y'know. Though she does look pretty youthful. It's the dark hair / dark eyes thing that got me, rather than anything more sinister. Honest guv.
 
Aye. Not saying there's not summat rather pleasing about the dark hair/eyes combo on a gal (or indeed a boy, I suppose) but the 'pre-pubescent' look is a bit of a deal-breaker for me. Although I must admit one of my exes looked stupidly young. She was actually five years older than me. If not a bit more come to think of it. But yes, some folk just look incredibly young for their years. In my case she'd've been early-mid 30s when I last saw her and didn't look very much older that lassie above. Oddly enough, just about everybody thought we were brother/sister - and often twins - so I guess that's more evidence for the 'heroin keeps you looking young' hypothesis.

None of the people involved are Ukranian, incidentally.
 
As far as i can make out on the ukraine - it's pretty much straight out of the playbook of western destabilisation tactics (there is literally a playbook - wikileaks (i think) leaked a US army manual on destabilisation that includes methods for fomenting protests, terrorism, sniping of protestors and blaming it on governments etc.).

This started when the EU were pushing austerity and subservience to western oil companies (chevron especially), banks and opening the door to NATO; when russia offered a price reduction in gas and a massive loan on much better terms than the imf were offering. The EU refused to deal unless russia wasn't involved - understandably Yanukovich wasn't inclined to be 'austeritied' like south america and europe and pulled out of the deal. This is when the push to foment the protests started.

Proper facists notwithstanding (and there are plenty of them) there are undoubtedly genuine greivances and genuine protestors in ukraine (though mostly split on ethnic lines) - but it's known that 'our' side has heavily influenced the direction and strength of these to their own ends (USA has spent 5 billion on getting ukraine to be nato friendly over the last decade).

The actual coup that happened to me had the hallmarks of a usual modern western intervention - foment protests, then mysterious snipers shoot both sides - the government is blamed etc. The same tactic started the syria stuff off; it was also tried in venezual in 2002 (but failed - looks like their having another go there now)

Some randomly picked good info on ukraine (imo):
http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/the-crimean-crisis-and-western-bias.html#more
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...e-crisis-great-power-oil-gas-rivals-pipelines
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/12/big-oils-sore-losers-lead-the-drive-to-war/
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bias-should-be-held-into-account?view=desktop

None of that's to say Putin's the goody obviously; but honestly in world affairs he doesn't come close to what oceania gets up to (remove the 10 tonne plank of redwood from our own eye first).
We'e been encircling russia with nato since directly after the USSR fell (going against the promise bush made to gorbachov) - america's got something like 600 bases in other people's countries, russia's got 3 or 4?
 
There was that nice clip of some American RT presenter all up in arms saying she'd not be a mouthpiece for the Kremlin. Think she resigned shortly afterwards... at least one of their presenters did anyway. Which suggests there is likely to be a bit of pressure from the Russian government involved now so unlikely to be exactly impartial. Might be interesting just to get a more Russian-centric view of it all though, I suppose. Usually they're pretty good but does sound like they've been a bit nobbled on this particular issue.

(just to be clear, i've not seen any rt coverage so is but speculation on my part really)
 
parttime crackhead said:
Anyone got any good news sources that show what is really happening in Ukraine?

Seeing as The Guardian has taken to simply publishing anti-Russian propaganda (example - http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...paganda-ukraine-fascist-protesters-euromaidan) I'm after more reliable sources.
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Im surprised that the leftie Guardian is taking that stance. Is The Independent really what it claims to be ? I dunno. All the other papers are either biased to the left or the right.
 
it's all about crimea. what do I associate the word crimea with? war. yep, those folk shot a few weeks back are insignificant now coz it's crimea they're on about.

and what marvellous puns.

I think al Jazeera's dodgy too. al Jazeera became the name round about the time of bin laden? It's not for our benefit nor the benefit of the folk in the Ukraine. I was going to get atlas shrugged from the library the other day but it's too thick for the moment.
 
Bearlove said:
Don't forget or you may be surprised who pays them - Qatar :D.
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Yeah, it's never going to be exactly impartial. =D

MDB, The Guardian ceased to be 'leftie' in about 2008. It's now a bourgeois lifestyle mag for 'centre-left' / 'centre-right' professionals and students of the kind who vote Lib Dem. Hence them handing the election to the Tories by pledging unconditional support to Clegg and the gang.
 
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The western RT that we get i think goes out of it's way to be comparatively accurate on its foreign news - if only to show up the state bias of bbc and western media; with an obvious focus on news that's embarrasing to the west. RT in actual russia is a different story i bet (probably the same as our Big Brother Corporation).

Al jazeera lost what little cred they had left on ME news at the time of libya (which their owners were well involved with)

As for the guardian being 'leftie' - it's a largely establishment-friendly type of left that is allowed and nurtured to 'prove' that the system works - sure they have some good articles that say truths (left if you like), but their editorial stance more often than not ends up supporting the neo-liberal position (or at least providing cover for it). Eg iraq, and various other 'humanitarian' interventions it supported.

Similarly most guardian articles on ukraine have been the same anti-russian propaganda as the rest of the media; although there has been a few sensible articles, like the couple i posted (phew the system works)

/edit Sammy G - ninja'd me ;)
 
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