Help with quitting heroin, withdrawal and taper

[Jwv2]

I am new, can find correct sub forum to post in, advice appreciated. I know from reading tapering off of heroin always is met with skepticism... Anyone here do it? Could we discuss a possible schedule or review my plan? Thank you to anyone kind enough to care...

I have had a pill addiction for several 5-6 years, resulting from legit scripts of Oxy for multiple surgeries. Got up to 240 mg. a day and doctor shopped to get a 2nd script every month for exact same amount. Got discovered by some DEA cross check about 7 months later. Used methadone to kick that habit and after being clean for several months, I relapsed on Oxy and tolerance stormed right back and increased, which led me to Heroin :-( I was using (only sniffed, never even now shot or smoke), quit with some subs and loperamide, and a month later now I thought I could have a "fun week" due to some unexpected money and access to a connect. Well I'm a month in so not too bad on the duration right? However, the amount and tolerance higher than ever. Sniff 5-10 bags in an hour every night, plus 2-3 in the morning.

Since my duration is kinda low, been on a month straight, I wanna try to taper rapid, and use loperamide for any lasting physical symptoms, since I have to access to subs or even pills. I have 14 bags right now, could get more if have to, but I just wanna end this NOW. I have 100 loperamide pills and some scoff but they did help me a lot at super high does when I kicked before, I honestly didn't suffer much, which is probably why I went back :-( I also have 5 Valium to help sleep through the first few days, which are the toughest, right?

Any advice much appreciated, thank you!

 

[Mylie11]

Hi, I'm new. This is the first thread I stopped at and I honestly think it's fate cuz......
Damn, I'm you!!!
You literally just wrote my story for me.
(Thanks!)
But- you're a few steps ahead of me.
So, I've been hooked for 7 years... Straight.... (YIKES!!!) tried subs- tried weening myself off times...I get sick to the point I want to die and it doesn't end - stuck with it 17 days once (9, 12... And I only lasted 6 days this time).
Sick=throwing up mostly, cold sweats, muscle aches...
It all sucks but if I could stop throwing up, I think I could do it.

I'm talking ZERO FOOD- lucky if a sip of Gatorade or pedialite stayed down- forget about food!!?!
I don't know what death feels like but I suspect it would be something like "my detoxing".
Needless to say, I always end up seeking relief.... So here I am. Nearly a decade later!!!
Another tid bit;

NO ONE knows about my addiction (well, I'm sure ppl suspect or even know- but maybe don't want to know?) But I've tried to hide it and think I've done an okay job.
My pcp is a family doctor, so I can't talk to them.
I don't have anyone that wouldn't judge me, or leave me, or hold it over my head and use it to win an argument in the future.

My own fiancé is not shy about expressing his "disgust" for addicts, he has ZERO empathy. He doesn't get it and we argue. Little does he know he's been living with one for 6 years!!!
I'm ashamed of myself.
He deserves to know.... But I just can't... Not now anyway.
And it's not rly about him right now.


Damn, as I'm writing I'm getting emotional.
I feel rly alone and I'm tired.
I just want my life back.

I feel STUCK!!!!

On one hand, I need help but I don't know where to go or who to ask and I risk losing my family, my job, ect if I "let the cat out of the bag" and reach out to my fam and friends and on the other hand, I risk my life if I don't reach out and get help.

The craziest part is that I haven't even achieved a "high" (*my "happy") in YEARS!!!

I wish I did- but 7 yrs= TOLERANCE!!! ;-)

I didn't want to do methadone because I've heard the detox is worse! In addition, I don't want to be at a clinic and see someone?!!
7 years of hiding to be outed!!!
That would be MY luck!!!!

Question;
When you stopped the first time, how long were you on the methadone, ect. Any help from anyone would be treasured!!!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I mean.. if you wanna go over a "heroin taper" plan, sure.. we can do that. But, it's kinda pointless seeing as there almost no chance it's going to work. Hah.

But, in theory.. tapering is tapering. It can be done physically. Just start decreasing your dose by 15%, 25%, whatever, each day until you get to zero..

If you do it, please write a book talking about your inhuman self control and will power.. we'd all like to know.

 

[BadassMoFo]

Suboxone!

 

[deidara]

^ thats definitely the best option. like mr. scag said, its pretty much impossible to taper from heroin, no one is THAT strong

 

[sekio]

It can be done in controlled settings, but generally self directed heroin tapers just don't work...

It only takes one 15-second fuck up to blow away months and months of work getting clean.

 

[BlueHues]

The concept of tapering is very simple, and has been covered extensively in these forums...Just keep dropping your dose, adjust to the new dose, and then lower your dose again...There's a million ways to do it, but there's no one method that works for everyone...

Tapering with your DOC is generally very difficult to do...

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

It can be done in controlled settings, but generally self directed heroin tapers just don't work...

It only takes one 15-second fuck up to blow away months and months of work getting clean.

Exactly. One "fuck it" moment, one extra dose, just like that can totally destroy the taper.. especially with heroin. This is why medicines like suboxone and methadone are used to taper people.. they first of all, have much longer half-lives, which allow for once daily dosing instead of multiple doses a day being needed as in the case with something like heroin, and second of all.. they do not stimulate the receptors in your brain like heroin does.. making them a lot easier to control.

How can you expect to all the sudden, exert control, and taper, with the drug that you became addicted to in the first place? If you had the ability to dose like that and control your heroin use, you wouldn't be in this situation to begin with..

 

[Mylie11]

In my case; I wasn't as specific as I should have been.
I'm not using heroin nor have I, ever... However, I've been told oc's, oxy's and fentanyl are basically a RX heroin, so for that reason I didn't decipher.
I don't think the taper method would work for me, mainly because I don't trust myself to do it correctly and not use, as soon as I start feeling sick.
When it miss one dose, I get gnarly cold sweats and super sick immediately so I definitely can't see myself being able to taper.
I wasn't looking for taper method but my back story was so similar, I felt compelled to write my first post under jwv2's post.
If I'm not mistaken, it was jwv2's first post as well (and we were on the "new members / testing grounds" section but it was later moved by staff to correct location).

Subs make be very sick- whether I wait 12, 18, 24 hours, I seem to be prematurely taking it , which throws me into detox worse that I was before I took it.
but I guess it's either I live thru being sick for wks on end and stick with suboxone or I continue what I'm doing and start shopping for burial plots.
Decisions decisions. :-(

 

[Flaga121]

I'm no expert, but I'm a currently tapering addict who works as a mental health professional (full disclosure I'm a MSW with a clinical focus, so by no means an MD, a good 6 less years of overall training).

Mylie11- The difference between H and oxy is going to be rather minimal in this instance, fentanyl actually has some complex binding properties, which I'm not going to speculate on honestly, but both cause the kind of profound stimulation of receptors Mr. Scag mentioned. Suboxone is a more mild, longer lasting high (when dosed properly) and tends to be easier to wean off of. If you have such treatment resistant addiction I would think you best option is going to be using Suboxone correctly. Note, subs don't work for EVERYONE, but from the sounds of things you've never actually used them in a way that would allow you to know if they could work for you.

First, I'd recommend 48 hours clean because otherwise you run the risk, as you said, of causing precipitated withdrawal, making everything harder. 48 hours is the hard part, but once your in full detox the subs WILL relieve every physical, and many mental w/d effects. It's rather easy to reduce dose on suboxone, I won't speak to actually getting off as I have not finished that step yet, but am at a dose of (twice daily) .010mg.

There is a risk to long term addiction with subs, I actually consider bupe my DOC, and have spent two years dependent now, but easier both to live, and to quit.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

In my case; I wasn't as specific as I should have been.
I'm not using heroin nor have I, ever... However, I've been told oc's, oxy's and fentanyl are basically a RX heroin, so for that reason I didn't decipher.
I don't think the taper method would work for me, mainly because I don't trust myself to do it correctly and not use, as soon as I start feeling sick.
When it miss one dose, I get gnarly cold sweats and super sick immediately so I definitely can't see myself being able to taper.
I wasn't looking for taper method but my back story was so similar, I felt compelled to write my first post under jwv2's post.
If I'm not mistaken, it was jwv2's first post as well (and we were on the "new members / testing grounds" section but it was later moved by staff to correct location).

Subs make be very sick- whether I wait 12, 18, 24 hours, I seem to be prematurely taking it , which throws me into detox worse that I was before I took it.
but I guess it's either I live thru being sick for wks on end and stick with suboxone or I continue what I'm doing and start shopping for burial plots.
Decisions decisions. :-(

That's weird.. don't say your DOC is heroin if it isn't.. Why would anyone do that? Well, whatever. The point is tapering with ones DOC, whatever it is, is incredibly difficult and almost never works. You also run into the same issue of the short-half life with something like oxy or fent.

Have you tried using the COWS scale when inducting onto bupe? It can be very helpful in avoiding PW's. You also need to start dosing at very small increments during induction.

 

[phishANDcheese]

I am going through the same thing, and have been through it time and time again. I am a little further along (day 15) but it can be done with the help of quick taper of suboxone, klonodine, benzo's (for a very short time) then switch to something like gabapentin. Honostley I could never do it without the help of rehab, or a detox center. Getting clean off Heroin is the hardest thing I have ever done in my entire life, it is a journey, it CAN be done. If living a life of recovery is what YOU want you will be willing to go to any length to get it. I understand that going to rehab is very shameful but is something that you will eventually have to face, that is, if you have tried every other way. gah, rant over. I am going through paws myself. GOOD LUCK, I wish you the best!

 

[polo792]

I was in the same position trying to taper but when it's there u end up using it. The only way to do a heroin taper is to have someone who doesn't use hold on to it n know when u do need it n weigh up the amount each time. I did that with my dad but eventually we just ran out of smack n just pop a small amount of naltrexone to send us into rapid detox. The next day we were clean of course it was not easy at all the paramedics came and all that shit but I know that it's the only way for me to get clean. I've been on n off this shit since I was 19 n now I'm 33.

 

[The Doc.]

That's weird.. don't say your DOC is heroin if it isn't.. Why would anyone do that? Well, whatever. The point is tapering with ones DOC, whatever it is, is incredibly difficult and almost never works. You also run into the same issue of the short-half life with something like oxy or fent.

Have you tried using the COWS scale when inducting onto bupe? It can be very helpful in avoiding PW's. You also need to start dosing at very small increments during induction.

He said that cause heroin and all those other pharmaceuticals mentioned are basically the same thing. I chased the high from oxy and diladid for 3-4 years then heroin for another 3 after that and I never noticed any difference in both the addictive potential and the high that I chased for so long. Both had horrible withdrawals and gave me the same pain relief and euphoria.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

What does that matter? Oranges and Grapefruits are pretty much the same thing.. they are both fruits.. and both shaped the same, yet if I'm eating a grapefuit, I don't lie and say I'm eating an orange.. Ha. That makes no sense.

Just say what it is, because though there are similarities, there are also plenty of differences.. and it just doesn't make sense to lie about the DOC in question.. just say what it is.

 

[The Doc.]

^^

What does that matter? Oranges and Grapefruits are pretty much the same thing.. they are both fruits.. and both shaped the same, yet if I'm eating a grapefuit, I don't lie and say I'm eating an orange.. Ha. That makes no sense.

Just say what it is, because though there are similarities, there are also plenty of differences.. and it just doesn't make sense to lie about the DOC in question.. just say what it is.

Hahaha good point Mr S but didn't mean aNY disrespect to you I just wanted to point out why someone would call oxycodone or whatever pharmaceutical opiate by heroin or join a thread talking about heroin addiction because both people are going through the same thing an addiction to opioids/opiates. I realize they aren't EXACTLY the same but when they are so similar I could see why he thought his story was the same as the OP's.

 

[The Doc.]

But I agree to makes things simple he should have made it clear that he did pharmaceuticals and not street heroin because there are some slight differences I never really noticed them much when doing the drugs though but they are there.

 

[whiteroom67]

You can try tapering a little bit just to lower the amount in general, and then switch to bupe, and from there switch to Kratom extracts, and from there to regular Kratom. Keep in mind even doing a slow taper like this, you will still experience some pain and discomfort of course. But think of it like pain being growth. When I withdraw I tend to think of it as a simple decision: do I want to be a slave to a substance, or not? Then the suffering of withdrawal, I don't fight, I embrace. Put yourself through hell and embrace it, and suffer well. While it will still be hard, thinking of it this way with a different mindset will turn you into a warrior. Laugh about how much it hurts, and don't give in. Tapering to Kratom will make it tolerable, and do the best you can. Don't be afraid to get professional help if you need it either. After 8 years of an on and off oxy habit, I myself am finally voluntarily going into an outpatient program, even though I'm mostly clean at this point (a couple of moderate strength doses of Kratom per day). Stay positive and stay on these forums, reading other people's advices and stories does wonders for giving hope and strength along the way.

 

[BlueHues]

^^

What does that matter? Oranges and Grapefruits are pretty much the same thing.. they are both fruits.. and both shaped the same, yet if I'm eating a grapefuit, I don't lie and say I'm eating an orange.. Ha. That makes no sense.

Just say what it is, because though there are similarities, there are also plenty of differences.. and it just doesn't make sense to lie about the DOC in question.. just say what it is.

That whole "grapefruits and oranges are almost the same thing, but why say you're eating a grapefruit when you're eating an orange?" thing, is a great metaphor for a lot of things...if that's original, I like it, good job! And, I agree with the sentiment!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

It is original indeed, Hues. Haha. But, you have my permission to steal it and use it as your own.