Gibberings CLVIII: pussy .gifs, but not the sort you'd think

[knock]

Why do you feel you're wasting your time?

Well maybe I'm over-reacting I was reacting to your post, but it's not personal against you. And maybe I wasn't wasting my time.

Just, if I had my way, then whenever people saw the word "depression", they would make allowances for the context etc.

It's useful to be reminded that there is a clinical illness called "depression" which is quite different to run-of-the-mill feeling low "depression". You're right about what raas said, "it trivialises the struggle that thousands of clinically-depressed people face" yes it does. But it also trivialises the struggle faced by hundreds of thousands of people who have not been diagnosed with clinical depression.

I dunno.

 

[Sammy G]

My statement is true in my own personal experience, and I'm sure millions of others. Depression is something that forces us to think differently, change our thinking patterns and this is what really develops us and strengthens us as individuals.

This is certainly not true of clinical depression, so please avoid all this ambiguity by not using the word 'depression' unless you mean it.

Otherwise, people will (rightly) tell you you're talking arse.

We all have the capability to overcome bad times and become stronger for it and find a happy positive state of mind. This is not an old wives tale. This is life.

Yes, but it's the triumph over adversity that strengthens us, not the adversity itself.

Just, if I had my way, then whenever people saw the word "depression", they would make allowances for the context etc.

It's useful to be reminded that there is a clinical illness called "depression" which is quite different to run-of-the-mill feeling low "depression". You're right about what raas said, "it trivialises the struggle that thousands of clinically-depressed people face" yes it does. But it also trivialises the struggle faced by hundreds of thousands of people who have not been diagnosed with clinical depression.

I dunno.

There's enough ignorance out there that I think people should be less ambiguous with their language. Otherwise, this kind of misunderstanding perpetuates the "pull yer socks up" response that a lot of severely-depressed people are met with.

As for trivialising the troubles of people who haven't been diagnosed with clinical depression, I really don't see where you're coming from.

They can say they're 'low', 'unhappy', 'despondent' etc. ... or they could go to a doctor.

 

[Marmalade]

^^ Ironic post of the week

[edit]

And Raas, I understood what you meant, although I think you explained it badly. But there is some merit in what you say, but it's not always something a person can necessarily see or realise until retrospectively, years later, when feeling more in control of how they feel on a day-to-day basis (for those who are lucky enough to eventually crawl out of the rabbit hole). A manic depressive would have found your words incredibly frustrating I'd imagine

For anyone feeling completely overwhelmed with depression of any kind tho Raas, you really didn't take into account how that information should have been communicated. You were fairly flippant and inconsiderate with it, in the same way Sam was.

 

[knock]

This is certainly not true of clinical depression, so please avoid all this ambiguity by not using the word 'depression' unless you mean clinical depression.

There's enough ignorance out there that I think people should be less ambiguous with their language. Otherwise we, the misunderstanding perpetuates the "pull yer socks up" response that a lot of severely-depressed people are met with.

Aaarrghh!

The problem is, English is an ambiguous language. Extremely ambiguous. But you want everyone to stop being ambiguous? Good luck :D

 

[ScotchMist]

Now I even admit I wouldnt class my "bad spell" as depression??? That implies that I classed it as depression in the first place.. I'll be sure to add full disclosure of my problems next time so a more accurate collective of opinions on my mental state can be reached.

You do come across as sanctimonious sometimes Raas, do you only drink when you're having fun, in a good mindset?? I seriously doubt it. Or can booze not be applied to this theory of yours??

Booze = Fun/Fed up

Drugs = For the good times only

 

[Sammy G]

Aaarrghh!

The problem is, English is an ambiguous language. Extremely ambiguous. But you want everyone to stop being ambiguous? Good luck :D

Oh, I love ambiguity. Adore it.

I just don't like being told that watching a funny film will make me 'feel better'.

 

[knock]

I just don't like being told that watching a funny film will make me 'feel better'.

Well that's fair enough.

But you're pulling people up for using a word that you feel they're not entitled to use, because they're using it differently to how you would use it. Yet these different uses are actually perfectly valid.

I know it doesn't make life easy. Maybe we should all try to be more specific, like maybe when I say "I'm feeling depressed" I should add "(not clinically depressed, just really fucking low, although you never know, maybe it is clinical depression, I've not been to the doctor about it yet, and if it is clinical depression, it's probably just moderate depression)"

Although, I can tell the difference between theses two statements:

"I need to shake off this depression, I can't be fucking arsed with anything"

and

"I suffer from depression, I've been this way for years"

 

[Sammy G]

I'm not saying they're not entitled to use it, for fuck's sake! :D

I'm just saying that people should be more careful about using it. Otherwise they may just face the kind of backlash we saw against raas. Of which you were a part, lest we forget.

Saying "depression is a good thing" (or words to that effect) is always going to cause controversy. It's not like I think I have some monopoly on the word because of my condition, if that's what you're thinking...

I actually find that suggestion highly insulting.

 

[Marmalade]

And you should take your own advice, that would help enormously.

 

[Raasyvibe]

This is certainly not true of clinical depression, so please avoid all this ambiguity by not using the word 'depression' unless you mean it.

Otherwise, people will (rightly) tell you you're talking arse.

Sammy, readie my post a bit better will ye :~

I was not referring Clinical Depression and related disorders here. I was referring to ScotchMists post, where he described himself as going "through a bad time".

__________________

Yes, but it's the triumph over adversity that strengthens us, not the adversity itself.

Sammy, readie my post a bit better will ye :~

I am stating that there is a process in the mind, where ones low state of mind or "depression", depending on how it's defined, becomes a pre-cursor to personal development and broadening of mind. This is not made up or some myth; it's how we work. As attested by millions.

We all have the capability to overcome bad times and become stronger for it and find a happy state of mind.

I said the whole time it can be a "pre-cursor" to the triumph, not the triumph itself. Your arguing against things I haven't said because you're not reading the post properly.

 

[Sammy G]

Sammy, readie my post a bit better will ye :~

I've already noted that you weren't referring to clinical depression, raas, and suggested that you use different terminology in the future to avoid confusion. That includes the first section of my post you quoted, actually!

Triumph over adversity = good. I agree.

Read my posts better, eh?

 

[ScotchMist]

Im not telling yous lot when im taking acid again

 

[Sammy G]

You'd better not! :D

PS: Best post in the thread today, SM.

 

[Raasyvibe]

[edit]

And Raas, I understood what you meant, although I think you explained it badly. But there is some merit in what you say, but it's not always something a person can necessarily see or realise until retrospectively, years later, when feeling more in control of how they feel on a day-to-day basis (for those who are lucky enough to eventually crawl out of the rabbit hole). A manic depressive would have found your words incredibly frustrating I'd imagine

For anyone feeling completely overwhelmed with depression of any kind tho Raas, you really didn't take into account how that information should have been communicated. You were fairly flippant and inconsiderate with it, in the same way Sam was.

The whole time I was referring to SM's state, other extreme examples of depression never came into it that was..


oh fucksake I give up.


Someone give me a tiresome youtube song link to waste 5 minutes of my time pleasie

 

[Sammy G]

 

[Raasyvibe]

Perfect!

 

[Keith_Bandit]

could you guys go without multi-quote for one day?

 

[Allein]

I'd like to note that the word "depression" has a multitude of meanings and nuances. It means different things in different contexts. Even within a specific context, e.g. the psychiatric context, it covers a range of experiences.

I'm not sure I concur, it may be used in a variety of contexts but I think we all know that it describes a mental illness.

I would agree that medical research suggests that people with either mild depression or who are experiencing short term external issues that are affecting their mood are often misdiagnosed as suffering from Clinical depression by ill informed or irresponsible GPs. There is a fair amount of evidence that the apparently poor success rate with some ADs may well be down to this.

True clinical depression is not a learning opportunity, I'd like to think Raas meant that people who suffer such a condition learn more about themselves and their thinking processes during or as part of recovery.

It's an emotive subject especially for those that have suffered the condition in it's acute form, others often seem to suggest that it's nothing more than feeling unhappy, or being a miserable bastard, where as in reality the condition runs so very much deeper leading to a loss of emotion and a darkness so dark there is seemingly no way out, or maybe only one way

 

[Marmalade]

Im not telling yous lot when im taking acid again

Fucking LOL

The whole time I was referring to SM's state, other extreme examples of depression never came into it that was..


oh fucksake I give up.

Don't be silly ... at the point anyone who's suffering from genuine depression of any kind reads, 'depression CAN be an amazing thing' ... from your post, things were going to obviously get taken out of context. Understandably. That's all. Didn't really matter what you said before and after.

I agree with a lot of the content you wrote. And, at the risk of creating a similar reaction, but to support your theory, I can honestly say that year long Reactive Depression I suffered, (terminology from my Doc, altho terms for depression change rapidly and are argued over hugely) and was off work for, is the single greatest thing ever to have happened to me in my life. retrospectively. Didn't feel like it at the time but it had, to use your word, amazing consequences which changed me forever. Within a year of being back to work, my whole perspective on life changed with immeasurable significance to the rest of my life.

 

[knock]

I'm not sure I concur, it may be used in a variety of contexts but I think we all know that it describes a mental illness.

Yes it does describe a mental illness. Like I said, it has a specific meaning in a clinical setting, but even then it doesn't refer to one static set of symptoms experienced identically by everyone who receives that diagnosis.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me about really, most English words have more than one "sense". Depression can mean all sorts of things. I mean, I'm not just talking about the difference between meteorology and medicine. The word has a casual, everyday use too, which precedes the medical sense:

Attested from 1650s in the literal sense; meaning "dejection, depression of spirits" is from early 15c. (as a clinical term in psychology, from 1905); meteorological sense is from 1881 (in reference to barometric pressure); meaning "a lowering or reduction in economic activity" was in use by 1826; given a specific application (with capital D-) by 1934 to the one that began worldwide in 1929. For "melancholy, depression" an Old English word was grevoushede.

I would agree that medical research suggests that people with either mild depression or who are experiencing short term external issues that are affecting their mood are often misdiagnosed as suffering from Clinical depression by ill informed or irresponsible GPs. There is a fair amount of evidence that the apparently poor success rate with some ADs may well be down to this.

True clinical depression is not a learning opportunity, I'd like to think Raas meant that people who suffer such a condition learn more about themselves and their thinking processes during or as part of recovery.

It's an emotive subject especially for those that have suffered the condition in it's acute form, others often seem to suggest that it's nothing more than feeling unhappy, or being a miserable bastard, where as in reality the condition runs so very much deeper leading to a loss of emotion and a darkness so dark there is seemingly no way out, or maybe only one way

Agree with everything else you've said though.

It would be fantastic if we all used the same terminology to describe these things. However, we just don't, there is no unanimity within the psychiatric profession itself, never mind amongst the general public.