Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

[Sammy G]

There's already a heroin thread, which sometimes serves as a w/d and abstinence support thread.

Mostly it's a connection dicksizing thread, granted, but I don't think Brimz should be coming into this thread and belittling the experiences of others, regardless of his knowledge and experience.

For the record, I think he had the best of intentions, but the approach was maybe a little too full-on.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Yes i think i took his post in the spirit it was meant, which i understood to be 'for fucks sake get a grip and pull yourslef together'. Most people with experience in the mental health field know that that kind of message can sometimes be usefull and helpfull, but sometimes it isnt. It depends how damaged or 'precious' if you like, the person is feeling.

Fortunately on this occasion I dont think i have flown off the handle or over reacted to it and have tried to be as rational, calm and logical about things as possible.

 

[breakcorefiend]

You know, what seems to be the case is boredom spiralling into druguse spiralling into worry,guilt and depression.

If you were to replace the drugs with something like.. i dunno.. Climbing? i'm sure theres climbing clubs nearby, would be a great form of exercise and eventually when you feel comfortable making friends, that way you have a new group of friends with a shared interest other than drugs,

That is what a friend of mine has done, he was in a bad way, didn't talk to anyone, was addicted to you name it! if it was available he'd buy it,
He went and joined a climbing club with his brother, started going 3 times a week and now has turned his life around, has a girlfriend with a kid on the way, takes drugs socially and has never been happier, I'm tempted to do the same soon, beats going to a gym and you meet sound people.

Worth looking into

 

[Shambles]

Ask Shambles as he went through hell ( i think it was shambles anyway?)

For once, it wasn't me. I've never been addicted to kratom - you may be thinking of Amanitidine who has posted quite extensively on kratom w/d. There's been a few posts regarding kratom addiction recently and it really does sound particularly unpleasant. There has been some talk of vague (sort of but not really) similiarities with tramadol - perhaps as that also has an opioid effect, a stimulant effect, and SNRI effect and a kitchen sink effect, messy ol' drug - and if it's even remotely like tramadol then anybody coming off it has my greatest sympathy. As does anybody dealing with any addiction, but those drugs that hit so many different receptors really are especially vicious in the w/d stakes

Sam i have found that things like aerobic exercise; cycling and walking help massively. Im also going to be looking into mindfullness & meditation, breathing exercises and diet. I should also stop and stay off the nicotine and caffeine, that makes my symptoms far worse.

Good plan, MDB. All of those should help in their own way. Don't feel you have to start all of it immediately - one step at a time. Start with whatever you like and feel up to and build it up as and when feels right. Those are all good things to be doing anyway and will certainly help in all kindsa ways. I'm actually having a go at working such things into my own life at the moment. When I think of it all at once it seems a million miles away - a whole other lifestyle which is completely alien to anything I'm familiar with - but I'm gonna be taking it step by step and see how I get along.

There's also the Drug Sabbatical & Support Thread if you want to talk more in general about working through addiction issue, mental health issues, or just general supportive chitchat and feedback. Given I'm on a bit of a semi-sabbatical myself at the moment I should probably pop my head in there too sometime. Hopefully might see you in there too sometime

Like I said, I'm not trying to go at you or offend you but because another hasn't been through the pain n suffering that you have, does not necessarily mean that they are not going through pain and or suffering of their own. I am sincerely sorry that you lost your friend. I can't begin to imagine that pain n my heart goes out to you. But please try to think when you say things like "you haven't even done heroin" or whatever the exact words - because that's similar to what another member said to me a few weeks back n it makes people feel small n like their addiction is insignificant, which is absolutely not so.

Truthquoted. Although this thread is specifically about opiate/opioid withdrawal, it's perhaps worth remembering that addiction is addiction. It really isn't a competition.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

yes, things like that are very good ideas, thanks for the suggestons BCF. I tend to be an all or nothing type of person, that means i either take a load of drugs without a thought for my health, or i dont take any drugs and become very health and fitness orienated. Ive allways struggled to do things in moderation, everything i get into, i tend to get into in a fanatical way.

I'll read you post when i get back shambles, i am late for an appointment.,

 

[Shambles]

I tend to be an all or nothing type of person, that means i either take a load of drugs without a thought for my health, or i dont take any drugs and become very health and fitness orienated. Ive allways struggled to do things in moderation, everything i get into, i tend to get into in a fanatical way.

I'm much the same, MDB. Doesn't seem to have worked out so great over the years though. Am trying to adopt a more moderate approach to stuffs in general. There's only so many times you can beat your head against a brick wall before you realise and accept that the brick wall is probably going to win at that game.

Perhaps it comes down to the fabled Addictive Personality. I've to'd and fro'd back and forth as to whether I really believe such a thing exists but, if it doesn't, I seem to have something that does a remarkably similar job whatever it is. As such, I'm thinking there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible to become addicted to moderation of those things that need moderating. Gotta be worth a try anyway.

 

[knock]

eh, no, if you want the official answer brimz should not be coming in here saying that. It's just blatantly false to say that problems with cause A are less serious than those with cause B, the seriousness of problems comes from a load of different variables which have been pointed out in here by others.

So no, let's not be having that.

(on the other hand, maybe he needed to get it off his chest and read some responses which show where his thinking has been going wrong and giving him a problem.)

And I agree with sam that it's surely without malice but it is mistaken

and let me add that sometimes it does pay to see your problems for what they are. It is possible to blow them out of proportion and make things harder than they really are. But to say this is making a mockery of people's suffering or whatever is just too much. Sorry brimz but I think it is It's obvious you have been deeply affected by that suffering but it's not on MDB is it?

there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible to become addicted to moderation of those things that need moderating. Gotta be worth a try anyway.

I like your thinking :D

 

[Raasyvibe]

I don't want to be a cunt but if you can't handle what iam about to say then your a weak ass muthafuka erither that or a sad bastard who needs to get out more . mAYBE U JUST ENJOY WALLOWING IN PITY.

rIGHT I DO DRUGS LOADS OF em have done 4 a good 25 years When it comes to Heroin & Opiates i maybe among the the biggest consumers on the whole of BL let alone EADD.


MdB hAVE U EVER HEARD ME WALLOW about these things ? Sure i may bring them up .

You aren't even a fukin Heroin addict n to my knowledge have no reAL IDEA OF THe suffering that we go through on the daily .


I am on a huge script for benzo's been on em over 20 years btw , have to take oxy for pain on top of methadone as the da,mage i ahve inflicted on my body due to my reckless addiction and 14 yeas of FEMORAL: injecting despite being hospitalised for Anemia , Sceptisimia it's about 6 diffderent stays adds up to about 4/5 months
I've been homeless, i've lost many people i had really close bonds with & also a 3 that i would go as far as to say i loved as a friend

.also an Intelligent , Good Looking woman who was especially dear to me ,i believe we woul;d be still together if she didn't die of a overdose after getting clean n then having a few drinks ( FUKIN Thats the fuker right ther) iF she hadn't hadv those vfukij drinks she would never off had a hit ffs

FGuk i have lost t2 life time friends in the last 3 months people i grew up with.

ON NTHE FLIPSIDE

i have been on DLA since 1997 this ain't stopped me travelling all over Southern SpaIN, LIVING IN pORTUGAL, n going to fukin loads of other countries , even a test series in Sri Lanka ffs


I have a brand new flat in one of the Most beautiful n expenSIve Cities in Europe NOT BOUGHT FFFS Housing Association of course

yeah i still struggle buT fUK I HAVE A LIFE I DO DRUGS N DESPITE DEGENERATIVE ILLNESS N MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES I ENJOY IT 4 THE BEST [PART
I DUNNO WTF IS WRONG WIV U SON COS U AIN'T THE FUKIN TIKCET

aLO U KNOW I iIKE YA AS I PUT A GOOD FEW HOURS IN TO GIVINGu good advice

U KNOW LIKE LISTENING TO STUFFLmgleat with meomn A DOve in 1991 ?




If i was u i would shut the fuk up about opiates it's fukinembarrsassing n makes a mockery of my Partners deATH N THE SUFFERING OF
THOUSANDS

___________

Whilst I can see where you were coming from with some of what you said up there, I have to say I think this goes way too far. You and yours have certainly suffered greatly but it's not a competetion - what exactly would denote a 'winner' in such thing? Everybody has their problems and everybody reacts to and deals with them differently. Walk a mile in somebody's shoes and all that. However much we may think we know about each other from what is posted here it's only ever gonna be an inkling of a snapshot of the reality of it.

eh, no, if you want the official answer brimz should not be coming in here saying that. It's just blatantly false to say that problems with cause A are less serious than those with cause B, the seriousness of problems comes from a load of different variables which have been pointed out in here by others

I think, actual truth is, 25 years of heroin and crack abuse... And Brimz has finally gone mad.

Ahhh shucks. He was one of the best we ever had. He even made Shambles look tame by comparison. Think it's gonna be quite some time until someone else comes along and tops his weight of drugs consumed per lifetime amount in pounds.

Sayonara Brimz, you were always one of my faves

 

[knock]

Now you're going too far raas. Stop going too far people!

 

[Eveleivibe]

eh, no, if you want the official answer brimz should not be coming in here saying that. It's just blatantly false to say that problems with cause A are less serious than those with cause B, the seriousness of problems comes from a load of different variables which have been pointed out in here by others.

So no, let's not be having that.

(on the other hand, maybe he needed to get it off his chest and read some responses which show where his thinking has been going wrong and giving him a problem.)

And I agree with sam that it's surely without malice but it is mistaken

and let me add that sometimes it does pay to see your problems for what they are. It is possible to blow them out of proportion and make things harder than they really are. But to say this is making a mockery of people's suffering or whatever is just too much. Sorry brimz but I think it is It's obvious you have been deeply affected by that suffering but it's not on MDB is it?

Well said, knock (now where's that thumbs up sign, we need one!)
In my opinion I don't agree that a split forum for withdrawals would be good. I tried this idea in TDS where I started a thread for people with codeine/DHC/hydrocodine etc - and I think that people took it the wrong way - that I was doing an 'us v them' which was not the case. It's good for people to understand that everyone suffers the withdrawals no matter what the opiate: codeine, DHC, Heroin, buprenorphine etc. we all have different fears n for most the psychological is one of the worst factors. We are all suffering from addiction n as a team we are fighting against addiction, all trying to help one another.

MDB - you're too harsh on yourself - I've ALWAYS seen you reply to posts in a rational n calm manner. I have a LOT of respect for you because I find this quite a difficult thing to do n am really trying hard with this.

Evey xxxx

 

[Shambles]

Well said, knock (now where's that thumbs up sign, we need one!)

Click on the 'Go Advanced' button and there are a selection of "hilarious" icons you can add to the top of your post ninja stylee and/or copy 'n' paste anywhere you fancy using the [IMG]*insert URL here*[/IMG] tags.

 

[knock]

yeah if we keep dividing threads up into specialist threads for the very specific situations that we are all in, then we'll just have our own threads with our own posts and no-one would help each other. That would be silly :D

It's good to have a mix of experiences because what comes from one person's experience, though it might be a different experience, can help other people's situations.

We only need threads because our brains can't handle uncategorised information. We only categorise information to make it possible to handle. The real thing that the information refers to is not categorised, it is the universe, and it comes in one lump, a big lump of stuff. Sure, there are objects, which appear as discrete sub-things, but when you bring in the axis of time I'm sorry, but objects don't survive the time axis. We should only categorise stuff to the extent that it is necessary to allow us to understand it.

 

[curious_24]

^ That last paragraph is just fantastic. Did you write that yourself?

 

[knock]

Of course I did. I even had to edit it to make it better

I will have to give Carlos Castaneda some credit though, and all the philosophies and religions that he ripped off in creating his work. There's truth in there, amongst the nonsense and abuse. By the way, Castaneda's idea was that we should perceive the universe without the categories, I think he was taking it a bit too far as I don't think that's really possible, or at least it might be possible to perceive it like that but I'm not sure where it gets you.

I'm sure Terence McKenna and Tim Leary et al have said similar things, or ruminated on similar topics.

This really is off-topic now.

 

[amanitadine]

Good stuff in here!

As I've always said, re withdrawals, it might not be the worst ever, but it is always bad enough. Wait, need more italics...

Yes, put well Evey.....we all face our own personal hell when it comes to opioid WD, and that's just that (one more for good measure...see I'm really trying to look fancy with emphasis on the proper words and stuff)

Edit - as that makes post number 1000 in shy of 5 years in BL incarnate number 3 I'm just gonna stop and call it Good

(overdosed on Italics 2/3/14, )

 

[Shambles]

Damn fine paragraph, Knock. I dislike Carlos Castaneda on general principle - partly for all the rip-offery, partly down to being a rather shady character (admittedly based on little more than a documentary - although it made a pretty damning case). I've never actually read any of his books so can't comment on those. I've got one but it's one of the later ones and I suspect I'd need to read the earlier ones to have much chance of making much sense of it. Still seems like a suspect individual to me but that doesn't necessarily preclude him from writing interesting and thought-provoking things. Even if he is more than a tad slack with mentioning who wrote 'em down first sometimes. He probably blamed the drugs too 8)

EDIT: Congrats on #1000, Amani

(slacker )

 

[knock]

I bet your sense per word ratio is better than mine.

both of you!

 

[Shambles]

I sincerely doubt it in my case, Knock. Have you seen how many words I spout 'n' sputter on daily basis?!? As long as there's a bit of sense where sense is needed I'll not complain though. And don't do yourself down, Knock - there's plenty sense in plenty words, sentences and paragraphs of yours. Plenty of PCP-podgered wtf too but it's good to have bit of balance

 

[Eveleivibe]

yeah if we keep dividing threads up into specialist threads for the very specific situations that we are all in, then we'll just have our own threads with our own posts and no-one would help each other. That would be silly :D

It's good to have a mix of experiences because what comes from one person's experience, though it might be a different experience, can help other people's situations.

We only need threads because our brains can't handle uncategorised information. We only categorise information to make it possible to handle. The real thing that the information refers to is not categorised, it is the universe, and it comes in one lump, a big lump of stuff. Sure, there are objects, which appear as discrete sub-things, but when you bring in the axis of time I'm sorry, but objects don't survive the time axis. We should only categorise stuff to the extent that it is necessary to allow us to understand it.

Wise words!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I only mentioned the seperate thread thing as brimz seemed so angry that my experiences were worlds apart from his. They are. But i guess everyone else is right that its opiate w/d whatever opiate it is. I havent suffered as much physical hardship and things like homlessness like he has there is no question, but there is just no comparison as our situations are so different.

Kind of reminds me of people slagging off people like Ronnie O'Sullivan and Stan Collymore for being depressed. Loads of people would be saying 'wtf have they got to be depressed about, they have such easy and privildeged mega wealthy lives, what they need is 16 hours shifts down the cole mines' and other such stuff that shows they just dont understand. Just because people may superficially appear to have an easier life situation it doesnt mean that it actually is. I have the security of owning my own home, but dont have the huge network of social contacts and local recognition that brimz does, things such as that can only easily be had by being born and raised and staying put in the same city or town you were born in, or by having huge dollops of luck thrown your way. When you move on your own to a new city, you dont have that. Get a life ? If only it was that easy.

IME addiction is more of a psychological thing than a physical thing. That may be where we differ. He is a long termer, i cant even decide if i want in, or out, after 2 or 3 years. My key worker almost threatened to throw me out of their programmes today, and send me back to the unit for chaotic users unless i comitted to certain new programs. It seems to her that i have made no progress in the 12 months ive been going there.

In some ways I havent, i keep finding new substances, bingeing on them, spending ages tapering off, and then start the whole cycle off all over again with a new substance within a few days of just finishing the old one. I have to figure out if i want to break this cycle, and how to do it, if i do. Im not seeking to add fuel to any fires here just felt like making a few half baked points that had sprung to mind since my last post and all the other replies.