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Crowd funded LD50 experiments on legal RCs

not sure if I'd kill mice instead of beeing cautious.
Did Shulgin make any tests for LD50 before testing subtances?
 
^ That was suggested a few posts up.

My own personal take on that idea : while I support the death penalty for child killers and rapists I wouldn't support testing drugs of any kind on them.
I could not live with myself knowing that my RC of choice was tested on a human against their will.

If a pedophile or rapist became overcome with guilt and volunteered to be a subject of medical testing ( without the incentive of having a reduced sentence ) that would be a good thing.
I would support this idea if it was saving lives or improving quality of life.

No matter how much we love our RC's we do not need them. The 'classics' are always available even if we have to grow or extract them ourselves.

PS - to the guy who does animal testing for a living, if you are reading.

Speaking as an animal lover and as a fellow human. Please don't beat yourself up too much, somebody has to do it. Isn't it better that it be someone like you who does feel pangs of guilt rather than some sicko who loves every minute ?
I think you mentioned asthma ?
Well that may not be as sexy as cancer or aids, but I have seen my nephew struggle to catch his breath. I have seen how it can restrict energetic kids and have a real impact.
I don't eat animals but even I would say that if some animals have to be sacrificed to help human children then so be it.
I imagine you've worked on many things over the years. The animal rights people that would condemn you as some kind of nazi are over simplifying a complex issue. Lets see how they react when their kids get sick ay ?
 
i still want to clang my bell and drag around my wood cart.
collecting the homeless and obsolete for this testing.
It'll be the "Last trip you'll ever have" Wagon. I'll wear an eye patch.
I'll ring the bell marching all the way up to the facility.
Oh what fun it would be.
 
Since when did we ever have to stretch the boundaries of our bodies to get a pathetically little bit better high? Why not just dose a sensible amount? Why do we even need to know the LD50 for drugs which it is clear the LD50 far exceeds the therapeutic dose?
 
Whow alot of people getting heated over this subject...im just querious as to this mystical "f&b" chemist referenced with shulgin and who he/she is? Any takers?
 
F&B is fastandbulbous, a very funny and clever pharmacologist who used to post on BL, and who was the brains behind some of the wonderful 3-substituted PCP analogues like MXE that became available a little while back, and was probably the most esteemed and well-liked poster this board ever had, and who is very sorely missed.
 
mr.smiley said:
And this isnt entirley relating to the thread...but animal cruelty on a new level with no research related outcome of any kind...
http://news-hound.org/please-keep-this-going-round-the-world/

There is a pitition to stop this at the bottem if you want to help.
Click to expand...

Rather off-topic but I do need to respond to this misleading & inaccurate link.
The animals concerned are long finned pilot whales not dolphins, they're not endangered, nor near extinction, the annual number killed is sustainable to the species, they're killed in an approved and regulated way with a high level of concern for minimising pain and cruelty - the large volumes of blood are due to the severing of major arteries in the process of severing the spinal column.
They're not killed for "A celebration, to show that they are adults and mature!" but as a sustainable source of food for the Faroe Islanders, among whom the whale harvest is shared evenly and freely.
This harvest is not carried out by Denmark but by Faroe Islanders.

The fact thay "produce a grim cry like that of a new born child." is subjective, irrelevant and a rather base attempt to manipulate the reader's emotional response.

Some further, and more balanced, information:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/hunting/dolphinhunt.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands

Don't want to derail th thread but it had to be pointed out.
 
^Those sick, evil Faroe Islanders and their disgusting culture! How dare they rely on whales as a food source! Why can't they just produce chicken and pork in such an inhumane and industrial way that it resembles manufacturing rather than agriculture, as civilised people do?
 
My overall impression from the voices raised in this thread is that no, we don't believe in testing for LD50 of RCs on lab rats. I'm definitely OK with that. It's a nice idea that we do things differently, and figure out the limits of these things through careful titration and working our way up (if desired).

Eventually we might get a rough idea of the LD50 in humans as people make mistakes and OD. Maybe ODs would happen less often if we had animal LD50 data, but maybe not. In any case, it's a horrible prospect to imagine injecting rodents with toxic doses of RCs.

Be careful with your measurements and decimal places bluelighters!
 
^ I'm not saying that at all.. in fact, I'd love for there to be some dead rats already!!


I'm just not exactly a fan of Bluelighters injecting high doses of toxic drugs into animals just to "see what will happen", however. This is the reason we have organizations like MAPS, to keep the research in line with scientific standards and practices.
 
Welcome to the Main Arguing Thread!
Whether it be about Shulgin's books, lethal injections, Folley's chemistry knowledge, animal rights (they're people too), or how well LD50's transfer species to species!

New topic! How about that homeopathic medicine?
 
I don't eat animals but even I would say that if some animals have to be sacrificed to help human children then so be it.
Click to expand...

I don't get this argument. It's very commonly spouted, but I still don't understand why anything should be "sacrificed" to help humans?
 
Halif said:
I don't get this argument. It's very commonly spouted, but I still don't understand why anything should be "sacrificed" to help humans?
Click to expand...

How else will we get The Almighty to notice us, so SHE can grant our wishes.......?

Seriously, though, I've been a vegetarian all of my life. And while I think animal abuse is wrong, torturing animals is probably the sickest/cruelest thing to do, that doesn't mean every animal has to live forever. Certain species are breed by humans specifically to be tested on.

At least they have a life purpose, where as we all sit around thinking "omg whats da point behind all dis why do we exist". We exist for no reason, and we have no purpose. But some rabbits, god damn, they have some gorgeous hair, and that's their purpose.
 
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