California cops found NOT GUILTY of beating man to death. Claim he died of "drug use"

ro4eva said:
One particularly cold person (perhaps a sociopath) left a comment asking that why are the protestors bothering to protest for a "near-useless cause". Law Enforcement beating the tar (and life) out of a homeless, seemingly helpless, mentally ill person, and then being found not guilty (past drug use being blamed) is apparently no big deal to some. Swear this asshole is asking to have his skull caved in.
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Maybe that's just what they're advocating? Like, why protest, just go cave in police skulls...
(just saying, some people have that attitude toward police and police brutality)

I just moved to this area and it seems kind of the norm for people to be detached though. In Orange County it's too easy to just go about your business of being rich and remain willfully ignorant of everything else in the world (or even everything outside your little gated community bubble).
 
'medicine cabinet' said:
Vigilante justice....i hope a mob of homeless ppl break bottles of those pigs faces...not to advocate violence, but they killed a human and got off scot free...."did what they were trained to do" slick lawyer...fuck that.
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That's coming soon bro. People here in America are getting real fucking tired of the police. Why do you think the police are militarizing themselves with surplus Army and National Guard equipment? The contempt towards police in the United States is at an all time high. People are going to start shooting and beating the cops and in my opinion it's justified. Most police officers should be hanged for treason; They took an oath to uphold the constitution and to protect and serve the citizens of the United States but they have broken their oath.
 
nobody's going after cops anytime soon. Fact. We're way too comfortable. That's the kind of shit you do when you have nothing to lose and you have numbers.
 
-Guido- said:
That's coming soon bro. People here in America are getting real fucking tired of the police. Why do you think the police are militarizing themselves with surplus Army and National Guard equipment? The contempt towards police in the United States is at an all time high. People are going to start shooting and beating the cops and in my opinion it's justified. Most police officers should be hanged for treason; They took an oath to uphold the constitution and to protect and serve the citizens of the United States but they have broken their oath.
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They either had to use that much force or they did not. I think the court case can be understood simply by taking a literal reading of the laws and asking, can you be 100% sure?
If not, then not guilty is the way to go.

This is not a football game. You can't take away Kelly's death with a penalty flag.
All you can do is cause more suffering, and it should be done with regret.

There are intelligent ways we can handle power corruption/dehumanization in the force, while keeping the positive aspects of law enforcement. It is unconscionable to make wide sweeping threats against all law enforcement and futile to punish a few individuals, in some lynch mob fashion.

If they are guilty, aren't they as much a victim of mental illness as the guy they were beating?
And you sound ready to blast a taser to the face with your blokes too.

You think the police are gearing up for you? Ha. At that point you are really only attacking yourself. Fighting a war in your head.

I have met officers who handle themselves very well while the people they are dealing with are annoying as shit. But everyone gets angry.

Kelly could have been in a confused mental state. Maybe. I personally would have handled him differently and I think you can teach that to people. On the other hand some people are just fighters and I can respect that too. Though not as much.

It is hard to tell unless you are there if they needed to take those measures to keep him under control. They had all the reason on Earth to arrest him. If 3 guys (edit: 3 not 6) all decided to just beat on him, they picked the wrong guy. Kelly was fighting pretty fucking hard and you might be watching a different sort of video, had he not been overwhelmed by 3 officers. I see him kick one officer in the ribs and it was hard.

Part of me thinks if Kelly would just let himself get arrested it would have ended. Another part of me is in the fight, where nothing makes sense any more, and I see that officer put his hands into fists. And I think if they would just let up on the guy he would have laid down, or just walked around clucking like a bird.

I can understand if the jury was just not 100% sure either. The officers statements seemed fairly humble.

I think we need to also put things in perspective by watching the 100 other cops doing good for while this was being taped.

Let's not make the same errors as people we want cops to avoid, reacting with violence, judging on past mistakes, assuming people's reasoning is insane or stupid.
 
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Ex-cop acquitted of killing homeless man chased out of restaurant by angry residents

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Former Fullerton police officer Manuel Ramos listens as the not guilty verdict is read in the Kelly Thomas murder trial in Santa Ana, California January 13, 2014.(Reuters / Mindy Schauer/)
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If a recent night out at Denny’s is any indication, public life may not go back to normal any time soon for one California police officer even after being acquitted of murder.

Former Fullerton, California, police officer Manuel Ramos was one of two officials accused of beating a homeless schizophrenic man named Kelly Thomas to death back in 2011. Thomas was beaten and tasered multiple times during the confrontation, which left him in a coma. He died five days later in a hospital bed.

In a controversial trial that ended in January, both the 39-year-old Ramos and former Corporal Jay Cicinelli were found not guilty.

Although Ramos has been spared jail time, the rest of his public life looks like it’s going to be more complicated, at least in the short term. Ramos doesn’t live in Fullerton anymore, but some time after his acquittal he found himself visiting a local Denny’s restaurant in the area, and local diners were not pleased to see him there.

According to a blog post by Orange County Weekly, Ramos was confronted by customers sitting next to him to the extent that he stood up and left the restaurant. A photo was also snapped of Ramos and posted on Facebook, with the caption reading:

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“So last night at Denny’s we saw this ‘cop’ (the one that killed Kelly Thomas) his ass SHOULD be in jail.. & thank fully the people next to him complained and he got up and left .. I hope it is like that the rest of your life going places, Kelly Thomas has no choice of doing anything he wants to do cause of you .. enjoy your ‘freedom.’”

Clearly, emotions are still running high after the trial’s conclusion. Ramos was charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, but while public opinion may have been squarely against the two police officers, the jury arrived at its not guilty verdict less than one day into deliberations.

Ramos and Cicinelli may still face federal charges, as the FBI is currently reexamining the case.

Police originally confronted Thomas after a local business owner called in to report a suspected car burglary. Videotape from the scene revealed Ramos putting on latex gloves and saying, "Now you see my fists? ... They're getting ready to [expletive] you up." The video also shows police taking Thomas to the ground, hitting him with batons, and striking him in the face with a stun gun.

According to Ramos’ attorney, John Barnett, the verbal threat was made in an attempt to avoid a physical struggle with Thomas, who they painted as a violent man with a history of substance abuse.

After the verdict was read, Thomas’ parents were in disbelief.

“Just horrified,” Cathy Thomas said of the verdict. “He got away with murdering my son. It’s just not fair. So I guess it’s legal to go out and kill now. He was so innocent. It just isn’t fair at all.”

With comments -

http://rt.com/usa/fullerton-cop-kelly-thomas-killing-902/
 
Those cops need to be shot.

First they hit the guy (perhaps he is "resisting").
The guy hits back, more like a cat would swipe at you from under a bed if you were torturing/teasing it.
From there the cops let loose, as the guy runs away, catching up to him, tackling him and hitting him with batons.

From here you hear the cops say "hands behind your back!" repeatedly and Thomas keeps saying "I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry!!"
cops repeatedly :"hands behind your back!"

If he put his hands behind his back at that point, which would have been hard as he was supporting that fucks weight with his elbow, he would have smashed his head into the concrete. The poor guy was protecting himself from injury, instinctively, from what I saw.

I almost want to travel to CA and kill these fucks myself. If I had less to live for, I might. I hope someone does. But ideally I hope the feds do something right here, with their investigation. This video is clear evidence that they killed this guy, and no way it was "drug use".
 
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What 23 said:
I almost want to travel to CA and kill these fucks myself. If I had less to live for, I might. I hope someone does. But ideally I hope the feds do something right here, with their investigation. This video is clear evidence that they killed this guy, and no way it was "drug use".
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While I agree with you that the cops should be held responsible - and I believe this very strongly - I also want to say that returning violence for violence will not help things. (See my "location".)
They need to realize that they have acted immorally, and society needs to be protected from them, but all humans have the capacity for realization and change. Therefore, if they serve some time - maybe 15 years or so - and repent, I could imagine them eventually contributing to society in some meaningful way. Killing them would make all of that impossible - the punishment, the change, the remorse, the contribution to society.
Also, killing them would make you no better than they are. You think that you have a good reason to kill them, but they thought that about killing the (poor) guy as well.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Peace. <3
 
It was the drugs that killed him. Drugs are bad. Think of children. Etc.
 
slimvictor said:
While I agree with you that the cops should be held responsible - and I believe this very strongly - I also want to say that returning violence for violence will not help things. (See my "location".)
They need to realize that they have acted immorally, and society needs to be protected from them, but all humans have the capacity for realization and change. Therefore, if they serve some time - maybe 15 years or so - and repent, I could imagine them eventually contributing to society in some meaningful way. Killing them would make all of that impossible - the punishment, the change, the remorse, the contribution to society.
Also, killing them would make you no better than they are. You think that you have a good reason to kill them, but they thought that about killing the (poor) guy as well.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Peace. <3
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I totally agree, really. I was justly pissed, though.

I don't think they intended to kill him, though, and I think they just got out of control. In a real life, here and now situation... Say, that's my wife (or child) getting beat... You bet your life the attackers are going down any way I can take them down. If it's easier to just shoot them? Bang bang (and I'm not going to wait for two armed men to draw their weapons). I'm not going to wait around for them to change while they kill my wife. The end.

But now, that it's over, I can't change anything... The best outcome could only occur if they would be left alive, and taught/self-taught.

I was still in the moment. It was still happening, when I wrote that. I didn't finish watching it. I just saw two heavy dudes beating this guy, telling him to do the impossible- nearly (put his hands behind his back... From the position I saw, would be really hard if not impossible without more injury, as they laid on him, while he was on his side... unless I'm seeing it wrong, who knows what kind of pain he was already in from their positioning and hitting him), while he screamed that he was sorry (for swatting back at them, like an injured animal, and/or resisting). There was a lot of fear going on there, on both sides. Unfortunately for Kelly, the cops were in the position to kill him.

I am compassionate, but there are lines.

I do apologize (to me) for the outburst.

pmoseman said:
They either had to use that much force or they did not.
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They didn't.

Really, quite honestly, if I were a cop, I would let him go. The guy would tire eventually. I'd call for (more) back-up. Maybe a tranq gun since the stun guns weren't working. I don't know. But an unarmed person does not deserve lethal force, in this instance. He was not attacking the police. He wasn't attacking anyone. They need to realize the world is not going to end if a homeless dude runs away and sleeps in another alley/trashcan.

pmoseman said:
You deserve a permanent ban.
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From what? Bluelight? Or, are you mirroring sentiments I had, like how killing is a permaban? If Bluelight, please, tell me where I have violated the rules, and I'll try to alter my behavior.

pmoseman said:
They either had to use that much force or they did not.
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He was running away... Most likely to hide. The guy would be hard to miss. They could have regrouped, and thought out their plan of attack, to keep things as safe for all parties as possible. I doubt he was going to murder anyone. Whatever situation they found themselves in, they were responsible... But... They weren't enough. Without confusing myself with words, not at all.
 
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Huh?

Sorry I don't have the time right now to read the article on these vicious pigs and their slaughtering, but I am really interested in how the story was spun to make it appear that them crushing the man's trachea was the result of drug use. This was a sad loss for the US justice system and the citizens who expect cops to "protect and serve". All the evidence painted on a wall and still the guys walk. Is it possible to be above the law? I think there is no doubt to that answer when police officers walk in cases like this.
 
They were all on top of him, he was yelling that he couldn't breath because his chest was being compressed and he died of hypoxia, plain and simple. They got the slimiest lawyer on the tax-payer's dollar to make up bullshit about past drug use and bad hospital care despite the video of his death. All this and you mindlessly defend their incredible brutality. He was literally fighting for his life and they viciously murdered him.

Pmoseman, that is like if you were drunk and yelling profanities at the cops so they come over, beat you unconscious, bite off your clitorus and bludgeon your breasts until the tissue is so damaged they have to be amputated then people claim afterwards that that each cop is just as much of a victim as you are because of the trauma of the trial and that you are lucky to be alive.

What if a baby spat up on a police officer so he penetrated it so deep with a billy club that it died, in self-defence, then raped the mother and broke her neck because she was acting aggressively towards him to save her child? Is that justifiable as well?
 
Not really, but my work history is quite varied and I have worked with police on a few occasions; not in Orange County.
It is not like I have special training in law enforcement or anything.
 
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