DISCUSS: Medical Errors Kill More People Per Year Than All Illegal Drugs Combined

Status
Not open for further replies.

SpunkySkunk347

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
1,717
Every article you're going to find online seems to give different numbers and all have different qualifiers for what exactly constitutes "medical errors"; medical malpractice kills somewhere in the ballpark of 400,000 people every year globally. In the US, depending on who you ask, yearly deaths from malpractice are somewhere in the range of 98,000 to 195,000

Now, let's narrow down those deaths and take a look at just one specific type of medical malpractice death: medication mixups. According to this article, http://www.campaignzero.org/quick-course-in-patient-safety/medication-errors/, medication mixups lead to 7,000 deaths a year in the US just counting the ones in hospitals -- according to that article, tens of thousands more deaths from medication mixups happen outside of the hospital, aka a mixup in the medication obtained at a pharmacy.

Now, these numbers begin to sound a little concerning when you consider another statistic: the number of deaths resulting from illegal drug use. Again, the numbers are going to be skewed depending on who you ask and what the qualifiers are, but generally speaking we could put deaths resulting from illicit drugs somewhere in the ballpark of 4,500 in the US and 100,000 globally. According to this article, http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/overdose/facts.html "In 2010, there were 38,329 drug overdose deaths in the United States", which includes accidental prescription overdoses.

Getting a truly accurate perception of the number of deaths each year from medical errors versus illegal drugs is difficult, since all the numbers and statistics seem to fluctuate depending on whether the source was pro or anti drug and whether the article was attacking or defending doctors and the medical/pharmaceutical industry.

Anyways, based on most statistics, we end up faced with the conclusion that medical errors and medication mixups are killing more people each year than recreational drugs (excluding tobacco and cigarettes). And certainly, the deaths from medical malpractice and med mixups should sound much more alarming to us than the number of deaths from recreational drugs, as one is self inflicted while the other is either accidental or resulting from extreme negligence.

Just what kind of medication mixups are we talking about exactly? Are these people middle-aged housewives who were on a cocktail of opioids, benzos, antihistamines, antipsychotics, alcohol, and a dozen other downers that end up killing them? Were they dear old grandma and grandad dying from their insane cocktail mix of all sorts of heavy medications that lead to seizures, strokes, heart attacks, pulmonary edema, something of that nature?

Somewhere along the line while trying to come up with the whys and wherefores, after trying to think of what possible medication mixups could kill that many people, you start to realize how large of a role doctors' incompetence has to be playing in all of this.

You might then ask yourself a very good question, "what the hell do doctors even do really?", and end up concluding that unless you just got mangled in a car accident or are otherwise in dire need of a surgeon, a doctor acts as nothing more than the middle man between you and the pharmaceutical companies.

Which finally brings you to the realization that doctors actually know very little about the medications they are prescribing, and instead they base the vast majority of their practice off of what pharmaceutical reps have told them to prescribe.

With all of this considered, it dawns on you that the real reason all of those deaths are happening is not because of anomalous pharmacological intertwinings or some theoretical concept in pharmacokinetics, but its because the pharmaceutical industry is a multi-multi-billion dollar industry - in fact it is one of thee largest industries on the planet. The shear scale of money being made and exchanged and enormity of the business being conducted completely drowns out and overpowers any voice of concern and blazes right on past any people first considering the possibilities of things like negative interactions, unforseen consequences, and irreversible damage.

...Looking Forward... (Mostly just wildly stated opinions from here until the end of the post...)

So what do you when you live in a world where quite a large chunk of all medical practice ( it's more likely the overwhelming majority if we're being honest) is hokey; broken; illusory/meaningless; lethally pointless; morbidly unecessary; thoughtless; a monstrosity; a total abomination?
With nonsensities like "restless leg syndrome" on the loose, and the common modern practice of prescribing serotonin and serotononin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors as a "cure all" for all ailments, which only ever had a theoretical legitimacy for potential as a medicine, and for which much speculation exists as to whether they permanently damage the serotonergic system, leading to long-term or permanent worsening of symptoms upon discontinuation compared to before the medication had started to be taken - and things like permanently decreasing sexual sensitivity and irreversibly altering the threshold of sexual arousal; permanently changing the neurological processes behind sexual arousal, never again to be in their normal state.....

Do we really need proton pump inhibitors for heartburn? Or antihistamines with ridiculous obscenely long half-lives and a broad pharmacological profile including a high affinity as serotonergic/noradrenergic leading to all sorts of unpleasant effects you never wanted and can't figure out the cause of, such as feelings of dread, panic, and terror! Hypomania and erratically fluctuating emotions! Feeling disconnected from reality! Unexplainable and unwarranted irritability and aggression! Lashing out at loved ones! Feeling like you're not ever truly "awake" and are stuck in a hazy dream world. Only $5.99; thrown in, like, friggin everything and often paired up with a dissociative NMDA antagonist (which also has an enormous pharmacological profile and potential for interactions), and who could forget it's most common partner, the highly hepatotoxic mystery-acting pain reliever that doesn't actually seem to do anything at all other than kill your liver...

I don't even know where to begin with all the bogus supplements out there; and vitamin supplements with vitamins that are barely soluble and pass right on through you to come out with your poop (the companies making magnesium oxide supplements should use the slogan "It's magnesium ...technically.")


Just what the hell should we do? When you sit and wonder things like "what will taking this every day do to me in 10-20 years?", your guesswork is really just as valid as the conjobs selling and marketing the stuff
Still, for a psychiatric field that just 3 generations ago was cutting off the frontal lobes of undesirables to make them easier to store, and for a human species that's spent the last 80 years lead poisoned, maybe I'm expecting too much.
 
Last edited:
Scary indeed.

My grandmother was almost killed in the hospital after getting her gullbadder removed due to the nurses administering drugs that were well known to contradict with her blood pressure meds which they all knew she on it was listed in her chart.
She flat lined and was passed for a little before being revived all infront of our whole families eyes.

She shouldnhabe sued the place but didn't because my mother worked in the o.r. there.

If its an option it is crucial to do research on the doctors in your area before having any medical procedures done.
You'd be astonished how awful some "Drs" really are.
 
Scary indeed.

My grandmother was almost killed in the hospital after getting her gullbadder removed due to the nurses administering drugs that were well known to contradict with her blood pressure meds which they all knew she on it was listed in her chart.
She flat lined and was passed for a little before being revived all infront of our whole families eyes.

She shouldnhabe sued the place but didn't because my mother worked in the o.r. there.

If its an option it is crucial to do research on the doctors in your area before having any medical procedures done.
You'd be astonished how awful some "Drs" really are.

Agreed. They don't really set high standards for themselves, or push themselves at all to become better at their own profession and stay sharp; instead they think that the only thing they ever had to do in life to prove themselves was complete the schooling.. After that, they were free to slack off at their new six figure job, just like they always wanted.
 
Every article you're going to find online seems to give different numbers and all have different qualifiers for what exactly constitutes "medical errors"; medical malpractice kills somewhere in the ballpark of 400,000 people every year globally. In the US, depending on who you ask, yearly deaths from malpractice are somewhere in the range of 98,000 to 195,000

Now, let's narrow down those deaths and take a look at just one specific type of medical malpractice death: medication mixups. According to this article, http://www.campaignzero.org/quick-course-in-patient-safety/medication-errors/, medication mixups lead to 7,000 deaths a year in the US just counting the ones in hospitals -- according to that article, tens of thousands more deaths from medication mixups happen outside of the hospital, aka a mixup in the medication obtained at a pharmacy.

Now, these numbers begin to sound a little concerning when you consider another statistic: the number of deaths resulting from illegal drug use. Again, the numbers are going to be skewed depending on who you ask and what the qualifiers are, but generally speaking we could put deaths resulting from illicit drugs somewhere in the ballpark of 4,500 in the US and 100,000 globally. According to this article, http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/overdose/facts.html "In 2010, there were 38,329 drug overdose deaths in the United States", which includes accidental prescription overdoses.

Getting a truly accurate perception of the number of deaths each year from medical errors versus illegal drugs is difficult, since all the numbers and statistics seem to fluctuate depending on whether the source was pro or anti drug and whether the article was attacking or defending doctors and the medical/pharmaceutical industry.

Anyways, based on most statistics, we end up faced with the conclusion that medical errors and medication mixups are killing more people each year than recreational drugs (excluding tobacco and cigarettes). And certainly, the deaths from medical malpractice and med mixups should sound much more alarming to us than the number of deaths from recreational drugs, as one is self inflicted while the other is either accidental or resulting from extreme negligence.

Just what kind of medication mixups are we talking about exactly? Are these people middle-aged housewives who were on a cocktail of opioids, benzos, antihistamines, antipsychotics, alcohol, and a dozen other downers that end up killing them? Were they dear old grandma and grandad dying from their insane cocktail mix of all sorts of heavy medications that lead to seizures, strokes, heart attacks, pulmonary edema, something of that nature?

Somewhere along the line while trying to come up with the whys and wherefores, after trying to think of what possible medication mixups could kill that many people, you start to realize how large of a role doctors' incompetence has to be playing in all of this.

You might then ask yourself a very good question, "what the hell do doctors even do really?", and end up concluding that unless you just got mangled in a car accident or are otherwise in dire need of a surgeon, a doctor acts as nothing more than the middle man between you and the pharmaceutical companies.

Which finally brings you to the realization that doctors actually know very little about the medications they are prescribing, and instead they base the vast majority of their practice off of what pharmaceutical reps have told them to prescribe.

With all of this considered, it dawns on you that the real reason all of those deaths are happening is not because of anomalous pharmacological intertwinings or some theoretical concept in pharmacokinetics, but its because the pharmaceutical industry is a multi-multi-billion dollar industry - in fact it is one of thee largest industries on the planet. The shear scale of money being made and exchanged and enormity of the business being conducted completely drowns out and overpowers any voice of concern and blazes right on past any people first considering the possibilities of things like negative interactions, unforseen consequences, and irreversible damage.

...Looking Forward... (Mostly just wildly stated opinions from here until the end of the post...)

So what do you when you live in a world where quite a large chunk of all medical practice ( it's more likely the overwhelming majority if we're being honest) is hokey; broken; illusory/meaningless; lethally pointless; morbidly unecessary; thoughtless; a monstrosity; a total abomination?
With nonsensities like "restless leg syndrome" on the loose, and the common modern practice of prescribing serotonin and serotononin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors as a "cure all" for all ailments, which only ever had a theoretical legitimacy for potential as a medicine, and for which much speculation exists as to whether they permanently damage the serotonergic system, leading to long-term or permanent worsening of symptoms upon discontinuation compared to before the medication had started to be taken - and things like permanently decreasing sexual sensitivity and irreversibly altering the threshold of sexual arousal; permanently changing the neurological processes behind sexual arousal, never again to be in their normal state.....

Do we really need proton pump inhibitors for heartburn? Or antihistamines with ridiculous obscenely long half-lives and a broad pharmacological profile including a high affinity as serotonergic/noradrenergic leading to all sorts of unpleasant effects you never wanted and can't figure out the cause of, such as feelings of dread, panic, and terror! Hypomania and erratically fluctuating emotions! Feeling disconnected from reality! Unexplainable and unwarranted irritability and aggression! Lashing out at loved ones! Feeling like you're not ever truly "awake" and are stuck in a hazy dream world. Only $5.99; thrown in, like, friggin everything and often paired up with a dissociative NMDA antagonist (which also has an enormous pharmacological profile and potential for interactions), and who could forget it's most common partner, the highly hepatotoxic mystery-acting pain reliever that doesn't actually seem to do anything at all other than kill your liver...

I don't even know where to begin with all the bogus supplements out there; and vitamin supplements with vitamins that are barely soluble and pass right on through you to come out with your poop (the companies making magnesium oxide supplements should use the slogan "It's magnesium ...technically.")


Just what the hell should we do? When you sit and wonder things like "what will taking this every day do to me in 10-20 years?", your guesswork is really just as valid as the conjobs selling and marketing the stuff
Still, for a psychiatric field that just 3 generations ago was cutting off the frontal lobes of undesirables to make them easier to store, and for a human species that's spent the last 80 years lead poisoned, maybe I'm expecting too much.

SpunkySkunk, was this piece above (the original post in this thread) written by you?
 
Of course medical errors kill more people than illegal drugs, far more people go to the doctor than use illegal drugs. People are bound to die eventually, medicine can only delay it. People always blame doctors...
 
Of course medical errors kill more people than illegal drugs, far more people go to the doctor than use illegal drugs. People are bound to die eventually, medicine can only delay it. People always blame doctors...

These are not people on their death beds in hospice who had an imminent death anyways, or people dying on the operating table during some last-ditch 'save their life or butcher them trying' kind of surgery. These are preventable medical errors - an unanticipated mistake that ended up costing a life.

Sure, some of them may have been in there about to die anyways - most weren't.

Doctors and many ER staff are desensitized to death, and I don't blame them - who wouldn't be. But I wonder just how desensitized are they? They all have to go on working despite having ugly truths hovering over them, like knowing that a patient could have been saved if they could have afforded a more expensive option for an operation or treatment. I think it gets to the point where they sort of end up having to prioritize who lives and who dies. Older people without any family don't have as much done for them or effort put in to saving them as a younger person, and that's just the ugly reality of the way hospitals work.

I think doctors and hospital staff become so desensitized to tragedies that they end up dissociating themselves from what goes on around them; they get clumsy and start making mistakes. Is it out of control with how often these accidents happen? Well, between 100,000-200,000 people in the US each year, so you can do the math yourself and you tell me.. It's a monstrously huge number for any cause of death, that's for certain; it's not exactly as infrequent as say, getting struck by lightning or eaten by a shark, for example.
 
Well I mean that was quite a lengthy and thought out post, and of course you have a point, although it seems (reads like?) you have some bias against the medical community (don't freak out - that's just fine in moderation). I don't have an actual counter argument or specific sources, honestly because I agree with the jist of what you're saying... so I'll just add my opinion based purely on the stats your provided, not gonna fact check anything, and will speculate conservatively and from memory to try and fill the gaps.

I guess I just don't think the attrition is THAT bad, we don't have a number of TOTAL people actively medicated per year, but given that (100-200k figure) die yearly, that's anywhere from about .3%-.6% or so of the population (assuming 300+ million pop of the top off my head, very rough). How many people are treated successfully, with no serious error? That's the figure we need, and it's probably a fairly large one, given a few years old anecdotal evidence (IIRC in the ballpark of 40 percent) that a third to a half of americans are prescribed meds regularly, not counting accidents and trauma I'd assume. Again these are not hard numbers.

Assuming those assumptions are somewhere in the area, we have anywhere from 1% to around 2% of people treated regularly would then be victims. If accidents and freak health problems inflate this total, we'd get even get less. So one or two people (or possibly significantly less) out of one hundred may have a fatal fuck up, and the number may be diluted by the people who die ANYWAY, or ones who wouldn't have a properly successful option available in the first place. Considering these numbers at the minimum include accidents/health with the rest already, I don't think it's THAT bad.

Before anyone jumps on my assessment, understand that I did it with some nebulous totals, but again IIRC reading years ago that medicated america totaled over 1/3rd of the population. I don't think it's a huge stretch to claim 1 out of 2 people see a doctor (and are really treated, here we have a shrinkage possibility, but 1 out of 3 doesn't seem a stretch) yearly, whether routine or random. NOTE! I do NOT agree with the way that pharma and the med industry are run. I think the profit motive does in fact cause problems, I do agree that doctors can be fucked up, jaded, greedy, etc. If everyone was doing their best, and COULD do their best 100% of the time, the numbers would shrink. But is that realistic in such a huge, public system? I do not think so. Hope this doesn't come off as total shit. Feel free to throw out some sourced numbers to prove me wrong!
 
Last edited:
With those estimates, 1 in 100 is huge. In fact its so huge, its making me think that those numbers can't possibly be right. Think about it, would you play Russian roulette with 1 in 100 odds of dying?
Even if the odds for say, you or I, were more in the range of 1 in 300 or 1 in 1000, that's still ridiculously huge. Its certainly a lot higher than the risk of death for any recreational drug that I know of. I mean, I don't think even opiates have that high of a death toll..
I'm going to sit down later and dig through all the references of these statistics to try to get as accurate of a number as I can.

I suppose 1 in 100 might not be too far off when you consider that those who are already sick would probably be less resilient against a lethal drug interaction. But still, 1 in 100? Per year? So over 30 years, you'd have a 3/10 chance of getting killed by malpractice? That is utterly obscene if its accurate.
 
Last edited:
Well yes, possibly, I did the numbers VERY conservatively I'm pretty sure in order to not UNDER-estimate the potential lethality. It would come out morel ike 1 in 100 of a probable demographic, now that I think on it, not random. Think about it this way, out of 100 people that represent demographics at large (so in this sense, people from various age groups, you wouldn't have the same proportion of 20 somethings seeing doctors as people over 60 obviously) do you not think that one would have a fatal complication in any given year, simply from age if nothing else? Even if it was mostly people over 60, as I'm sure the elderly are (obviously, hugely) disproportionately represented in the medical deaths. I think this, more than anything actually skews this whole number wayyyyyy over. I think not taking this into consideration threw me way off.

To sum up, you or I may not have 1/100 chance because we aren't necessarily an at risk population. So our say, one in one thousand is made up for by their 1/10 per year. Also, remember that in statistics, it doesn't compound (over 30 years, it would go up by thirty) but remains 1/100 every year in THEORY. In practice, as I said, it will be different risks for different people.
 
You're right I did sound inconsiderate towards the ill in that post. I mean to say that although it might be the doctors' fault, the doctors' shouldn't be blamed, if you know what I mean.
 
Fun. Not only was I fooled into signing for 2 surgeries by the hospital's chief nurse (my ENT told me I was to have one procedure only, basically using a tiny saw so that my deviated septum became right. The other surgery he didn't tell me about so I figured both papers I signed were needed to be done together...not really....I also signed up so they'd basically crush the cartilage in my nose so that it would repair with more space for air to come in, apparently it's not a turbinectomy....welll thank fuck, I for years had symptoms in the same ball park as Empty Nose Syndrome, it got better though, but I'm sure that second surgery wasn't needed.

Anyways, I left the place with 2 huge sticks sticking out of my nose for almost a week, I still remember how much it hurt when he pulled those things out a week later, not caring one bit he really hurt the left side of my nose doing that. I was on about 260mg of codeine a day (empracets 30/300), which continued for a very long time (I had like 5 refills), so not only half of it was unwarranted, so I never went back to that ENT, even if he was a nice doctor who seemed knowledgeable, instead of scripting me a strong antihistamine for my swelling nose, he chose the most paying option for him right off the bat and it made me discover the power of opiates, in the early '00's apparently I was unlucky not to get oxycocet or oxycodan (generic percocet/dan here) as that era was known as the "let's be more compassionate towards pain sufferers", goddamn oxycontin over-scripting and abuse changed everything, just because of one particular formulation. Why didn't tehy just make Oxycontin like Kadians or HM Contin where even if one was to crush the bead from that stuff, its hell on your nasal passages for HMC, and Kadian beads have talc in them. Would have made people learn faster not to IV a product with barely any point of IV'ing to it.

Oh yeah, the other paper called for a partial "concothomy". When I look for concothomie in french like I must have been shown, somehow it sends me towards turbinectomy articles on startpage, ixquick, duckduckgo, that google place even. Same thing pretty much when in english. So it conchotomy means partial turbinectomy. Still I asked in my complaint to the doctor that he tells me what percentage of my lower turbinates he removed, they only said they broke the cartilage there to help with the deviated symptom surgery in their written correspondance report, I call bullshit but it's way too late now. I even went to see him back for a script for Sinus Rinse and didn't mention this whole unpleasantness 10 years ago. I only get it for freee if a doctor says so and nothing cleans the sinus cavities like that bottle and the way it works.
 
Last edited:
why? are guys from the pharm companies going to show up in a van and take me out?
Just kidding, yes I wrote it

Very interesting, but this does not belong in this forum!
Please read the forum guidelines to see why. (Basically, it is not about drugs in the media. )
This should be in a personal blog.
I strongly suggest you create one, with this as the first post - and an excellent one, I might add.
But I gotta close this here, I am sorry to say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top