Bupe Method/Meds to ELIMINATE the Dreaded Bupe Transition from DOC to BUPE!

[Nightlites]

Im looking for any possible ways out there to make the transition from dope (or any opiate i guess it shouldnt differ very much)
to BUPE the LEAST painful as possible.

if you have any teechnic or theory this is the place to post them!!

when i stop using dope and i decide to get back onto suboxone, there is ALWAYS atleast a 3-4 day transition period
once i quit dope. You wait the 24 -36 hours to be sick enough to dose the bupe without causing precipitated withdrawls.
THEN there is the 3 or 4 days after starting suboxone that you feel like shit still. its still way better then being in full withdrawl.
BUT you still feel like shit for those days. still experience light wiithdrawl symptoms ie chills, hot flashes, goose bumps, insomnia ETC. ETC.
YES you STILL feel like shit for close to a week EVEN with suboxone in my system.
in my experience more suboxone doesnt usually change anything. no matter how much sub you take.
you STILL feel like shit with no energy and light WD symnptoms.

my question is,
1) IS THERE ANYTHING YOU CAN DO OR TAKE TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING??
2) IS THERE ANY TECHNIC OF DOSING SUBOXONE TO MAKE THE TRANSITION EVEN THE SMALLEST BIT EASIER??

now i have read online a technic of dosing BUPE in small amounts for about 3 or 4 days BEFORE you completely stop using your DOC
Example: -----
1) wake up and dose small amount of subs lets say 1 to 2 mgs. now note YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE IN FULL WITHDRAWL TO DO THIS. BUT YOU DO NEED SOME OF YOUR DOC INCASE IT THROWS YOU INTO PWD SO YOU CAN GET DOPE BACK IN AND BREAK OUT OF WITHDRAWL. you want to wait atleast 1 -2 hours after dosing the sub to do our doc or the subss just gunna rip that out as well
now the reason for doing this is to get suboxone into your system early. not to actually get onto bupe rite then.

2) now day 2 you do the SAME THING AGAIN AS THE PRIOR DAY. JUST GET MORE BUPE INTO YOUR SYSTEM, GET SICK, THEN DO A SHOT OF DOPE AND GET WELL ( Ive done this before, me personally i have zero problem getting high directly after 2 mgs sublingual ZERO PROBLEM AT ALL )
ain
3) repeat for day 3

4) now day for or five after repeating those steps everyday. you not going to dose sub in the morning, your going to wait the 24 - or 36 hours without any opiates and then your gunna take your suboxone (NOTE you may not even be sick at all for those 24-36 hours)
the point here is to let whatever opiate clear out of your receptors so that you can take the suboxone. note you may not even be withdrawing throughout this entire time depending on HOW MUCH BUPE YOU PUT IN YOUR SYSTEM THE PREVIOUS DAYS.



Now for me this is only theory, but i do know there are people out there that swear by this method.

1) DOES THIS ACTULLY WORK OR HELP AT ALL?!

in theory i could see your body adjusting to the bupe those days it has it in there and possibly making it so you dont have the 3 or 4 days
of feeling like shit (no energy, lethargic, dysphoria ) "THE TRANSITION TO BUPE STAGE"

2)has anyone tried this method and what were your results?
did it work?
did it make any difference whatsoever?
or was it a complete waste of bupe and you still felt like shit during the transitioN?

------------------------
ARE THERE ANY OTHER WAYS TO HELP MAKE THE TRANSITION ANY LESS SHITTY?!

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OTHER METHODS THEY USE TO MAKE GETTING ONTO BUPE ANY EASIER THEN JUST TAKING IT AND WAITING IT OUT?


i have on hand some xanax and tramadol (im not sure how i should use this to help)

any info is greatly appreciated
even if there just theorys of yours please post them here


thank you all for your time reading. and i pray there is some way out there to beat the transition of feeling like shit because
those couple days are the reason i have attempted getting on bupe 15 time in the last 2 months. and am currently STILL shooting dope cuz i cant handle it :'(




(to mods. please i freaking beg you not to merge this thread to the bupe megathread, i know it has huge potential at helping people like myself, because i searched through endless posts in the megathreads for the last 2 or 3 hours for an answer and wasnt able to find anything. please and thank you!)

 

[Paregoric Mac]

Personally I've never had a problem transitioning. My habit was 180-200mg's oxycodone a day, or if I couldn't get my oxy I would IV 400mg's morphine. When my supplies ran completely dry, I'd wait 48 hours or until I felt pretty shitty and dose 2-4mg's of sub and feel 100% normal/baseline. I have heard of people having trouble like you though with the transition. My sub doctor will actually give you a 2 week benzo script along with your first sub script after induction, so I'm guessing it's somewhat common for it to be "bumpy" at first. So maybe you could use that Xanax you mentioned to make things smoother, but dont turn the Xanax into a habit itself.

 

[Nightlites]

Yea my habit I guess would be somewhat large bybsome standards..
I have a couple ideas of tgings that may help. And in fact I will be guinea pigging myself to try them out and I will post them
Here to keep track n see how it works out.
So here is one idea...

I have tramadol on hand. Last time I tried to switch over, I waited till I was decently sick.
Dosed 200 mgs of tram and it did take away SOME of the physical wd symptoms
The RLS was still kickin in full force and I could only sleep in 10 minute spurts throughout the long, long ass night.

Then dosed sub in the morning (36hr mark)

What I was wondering tho is that since you ARE able to take AND FEEL the effects of tram on top of suboxone,
That if you take trams on top of the sub for the first few days maybe that would get rid of ALL the shitty lingering
Symptoms??
Anybody have any experience with this method and how did it go?!

Nights--

 

[Nightlites]

And also does anybody have experience taking tramadol while in withdrawls and how well did they work out for you?
For me I only took 200mgs, but they didnt do a whole lot
Only lessend the intensity of the chills n things but I still felt like ballsack. Lol

 

[dopemegently]

I've only taken 300 mg of tramadol during a massive suboxone reduction 25-30mg daily to 10 mg daily; it worked very well for that, but sorry, I've never taken it in the DOC-suboxone transition. It's a good idea though. I wonder how it is that tramadol works with sub? Always been a mystery to me, that.

 

[Nightlites]

Most regular opiates, ie vicoden, oxy, heroin, BUPE etc etc stimulate the mu-opiate reseptor... Where as tram mostly works throught a different opiate reseptor. the k-reseptor if im not mistaken...
..
tramadol also has some anti depressant quilitys too it as well whick could obviously play a role in its feel


good affect. Me personally have only used tram to induct...
and instead of going into full withdrawl

I only have to get wait the required time it takes
to dose sub without going into precipitated withdrawl (usually around 24 hrs since last h dose)
but take trams when I start feeling sick and it will lessin the symptoms considerably
And then take subs without goig into pwd (even with tramadol in my system)
Just have to wait the 24 hours. Just not full blown withdrawl.
Somebody correct me if im wrong here

 

[dopemegently]

That's really interesting; the tramadol is targeting opioid receptors which are unaffected by bupe? Well, I guess that would explain the reason I could still get high even on blocking doses of bupe. Is tramadol the only opiate that affects this k-receptor btw?

It doesn't seem to be a very well-known thing anyway; I spoke about this to my doctor, a real expert in the subject, and he said its impossible for any opiate to break through a blocking dose of buprenorphine, even implied I was imagining things due to the placebo effect.

 

[Nightlites]

Yea thats what ive read on bluelight. Theres some rediculously smart ppl on here.

But just to prove it btw, I took trams yesterday while in withdrawl and they made me well enough to sleep all day and night 36 hrs from my last dose and take suboxone this mornibg still not in full withdrawl n had no zero problem

 

[Tommyboy]

The main thing that helps the transition along for me is waiting as long as possible to dose the bupe. I know that is sucks having to wait while in withdrawals, but 12 more hours of withdrawals is often better than the 3-4 days of feeling kinda shitty while you wait for the bupe to start working better. I noticed that when I waited only 20 hours the I wouldn't feel the bupe once I dosed it, but I just wouldn't continue getting sicker. But when I waited 36 hours I could feel it a bit more.

I agree that when you are having a rough transition no amount of bupe will help, so taking more is pointless so I never went above 6mg those first few days, or even after that really. My main concern with the method that you mentioned in which you start taking small doses of bupe while still taking your DOC is that the more times you go back-and-forth with it the harder it is to transition. I can't say that I haven't done that though. I would take 2mg in the morning, and by nighttime I would be feeling sicker, so would do a few bags to take that sickness away. Then in the morning again I would dose 2mg of bupe again, and I think that since there was already bupe in my system it wouldn't cause precip withdrawals if I waited only 12-16 hours, considering I had only done a few bags and didn't really get high from them since the bupe blocked it a bit, and since the dose wasn't really enough to do much more than take away the withdrawals. I guess I would call this the 12/12 rule, taking 2-4mg of bupe in the morning, then 2 bags of dope 12 hours later in the evening, rinse repeat.

What would happen when I stopped doing the dope after 3 days of doing the 12/12 thing? I wouldn't really feel that bad, but it would take a good week before I got any positive effects from the bupe. Therefore you are probably better off just transitioning straight over to the bupe after waiting 36 hours after your last dose, and to make it work even better you should taper down the dose of your DOC for 5-7 days before doing this. You should also try waiting 24 hours between doses of your DOC during those last few days, which should make things easier as your body will be more used to getting by with one dose every 24 hours, so that final wait before taking the bupe shouldn't be as bad.

The best way to make it 36 hours before dosing the bupe is to leave the bupe at home, and stay busy elsewhere when you start feeling sick (which is hopefully 18 hours or more after your last dose). The mind is a very powerful thing when it comes to withdrawals. There are times when I wake up 12 hours after my last dose of my DOC and I'm feeling sick and want to take the bupe, but if I don't take it and occupy myself with other things the withdrawals ease up for a while, and that buys me another 8 hours before things start getting worse. If I'm just sitting at home and have bupe on hand then my mind starts telling me I'm sicker than I really am, and so I usually end up dosing too soon for it to work well.

 

[dopemegently]

It also makes a huge difference just knowing you've got something on hand that's gonna make you feel well again. It's kind of like when I was in extreme withdrawals; I'd phone my dealer, arrange the deal, and knowing he was on the way with the stuff, it was almost like I didn't feel sick anymore. It's kind of bizarre when I think about it. But of course, this is a double-edged sword, just like Tommyboy said; knowing you've got the bupe, it's easy to convince yourself you're much sicker than you are, and take it early - so time management is really crucial. It's just like they say in the meetings: take it one minute, one hour, one day, at a time.

 

[Nightlites]

Yea unfortunatly wiyh each time withdrawls in fact do get a little worse as long as u dont completly abstain from opiates...
That and the fact that u know its coming and are afraid of it, it gives it more power over you...
Sucks but I think thats true. Tonights night two on sub three without d and im feeling better then yesterday
Not great but better

 

[dopemegently]

Fear of withdrawals is very powerful to me. It's only this that's kept me on the bupe for so many years; I don't get any real high from it at all, haven't for years now.

I haven't actually withdrawn from opiates for over 8 years now; so the fear of it is a big thing for me.

 

[Nightlites]

Iv been on n off subs for 3 or 4 years now... Its kinda messed up I dont have a lot of posts here on bl but been here since 06... You can follow my drug use back to xtc... Then poppys... Heroin... Subs... Ughhh
Theres nothing like a good 36 hrs sickly for a sub induction and week of stablizing to kick the fear of withdrawl into your teeth...
Shitty thing is I only have maybe 4 days worth now. I need a dr. apt asap!
I know if I run out il be bangin yhe guns soon as I get really sick and start all over.
It was so hard to get me where I am this week... And so many failed attempts at inducting the last few months. Im scared shitless of kicking or relapsing rite now... Guess il see if I can get in n see the dr... Atleast I know I got 4 days to wrangle up two bills for script and app.
It was a bill a day habit I needed everymorning and was able to pull that shit off lol...

 

[dopemegently]

I know: running out of subs is fucking scary. If you're not having luck, I've heard some decent quality kratom will hold you at the right dosage. Also, loperamide is supposed to be helpful for RLS.

 

[StartedHydro]

I personally find that it depends on how potent the dope is before the trans back to bupe, dictates how useful suboxone can be. How I go about getting back on suboxone, is taking very small doses over a 24 hour period. I stop my dope usually around Saturday night 1-3am ish so by Monday same time it's been 24 hours. My WDs start with rather harsh fatigue, zero motivation, anxiety, sweats. Once those tell tale sighs appear I start off by taking a 2mg piece sublingually and go right back to sleep and wake back up for work around 5am. Then depending on how I feel I start banging very small pieces until I get to my desired state of mind. I usually do .5 to 1 mg shots, and for me bupe still takes a solid 8-12 minutes to start having an effect. Rather annoying.

I've never encountered any PWs by starting low and dosing a few times in a day going from FA(full ago). Only time I've ever had issues is when I slammed a stupid amount of suboxone within 12 hours of a FA. There are times though when the switch is just hellish. It's like being in partial WDs for days. For me it's mostly awful fatigue. Zero motivation, depression, fucking chills(78 degrees and I'm freezing) mostly. No matter the amount of bupe I've took, didn't full alleviate those lingering symp. Then other times I take suboxone just expecting nothing special from it and I get a kick in the pants.

Side note, I got a subtex a few months back, and banged it and was rather surprised. It wasn't euphoric per say, no rush, but felt different than suboxone. I believe in my heart that naloxone gets the rec way faster than bupe(IV). Even though bupe wins that battle, there has to be a cause and effect situation and their subjective effects, between those two.

 

[StartedHydro]

Misinfo in regards to tramadol.

Tramadol is a opiate, no longer an opioid.

While tramadol does interact with opiate receptors it's extremely weak. Tramadol is a pro drug for the metabolite, m1(I-demtho) which relative to tramadol is significantly more potent in regards to receptor stimulation. Tramadol also exerts influence on the seratonin systems and Norep as well. For users who are good metabolizers with a mild tolerance they can expierence a very unique and enjoyable expierence in that tramadol can be rather stimulating and relaxing at the same time. Tramadol has barely if any agonist effects at the D or K receptor. The opiate/ioid effect one perceives while combining the two(bupe/tramadol) is the seratonin/norep, where the classical opiate sensation would be bupe, cause we all know who wins that battle.

Daily limit is around 400-500 mg due to seizure % rising with escalating doses.

Tramadol is a god send, for opiate dependent persons. It should almost always been kept for situations in which your caught with your pants down along with clonidine, hydrazine(that antihis), Lyrica, and other comfort meds.

Tramadol for me will stop almost any WD that I'm in and has a very nice half life.

I've been on 300 mg of tramadol for days and banged sub two hours after a 200 mg dose and I did indeed feel the PW, but it was almost unnoticeable. It was all mental, in the sense that my state of mind went to being depressed, and anxious until about 20 mins after sub. Do I recommend doing that, NO!! Could you get thrown into hardcore WDs? Most certainly. I gambled in that tramadol being a weak agonist that when removed from the receptors it wasn't going to be a huge crash to baseline.

Tramadol, IMO, is the perfect drug to either get on sub, or get off sub.

 

[Nightlites]

I hear tram withdrawls ate pretty gnarley.. What makes them so intense with the little activity they have on the receptors? Im aware antidepressents cause a withdrawl there own. But just wonderin bout the opiate withdrawls... ?

And thank

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

One key to making the transition easier is weening down as low as you can go on whatever opiate you're doing, before making the switch. Tapering down will make the transition much easier onto suboxone.

 

[mandisweetness32]

And also does anybody have experience taking tramadol while in withdrawls and how well did they work out for you?
For me I only took 200mgs, but they didnt do a whole lot
Only lessend the intensity of the chills n things but I still felt like ballsack. Lol

Hey Nightlights,
I'm sorry sweetie, I feel your pain and know exactly what ur going thru. Actually, believe it or not tramadol will really help with the wd's along with a benzo if u have some still, I recommend taking them especially when you can't sleep, try some DXM, like robitussin, nyquil, or other products that "only" contain dxm... If anything I prefer subutex over suboxone minus the nasty taste.. Keep me updated.. DM me anytime if you need anything!!

 

[mandisweetness32]

I hear tram withdrawls ate pretty gnarley.. What makes them so intense with the little activity they have on the receptors? Im aware antidepressents cause a withdrawl there own. But just wonderin bout the opiate withdrawls... ?

And thank

Cuz it's been said that if taken in large quantities tramadol can cause seizures but don't freak out, its rare! I personally never had wd's from tramadol & I took them by the handfuls, it all depends on the person babe! Hope I was of some help! ;-)