My tramadol potentiation project : share your experience with these methods

[Californication]

I'll try to keep this short and simple. Im playing with the metabolization of tramadol to get optimal opiod effects from this drug. Trying staggered doses, the popular CYP inhibitors along with tums, naproxyn/acetaminophen, and weed (hash oil) to potentiate these lovely pills

Its been widely debated why cyp2d6 and a4 inhibitors (Tagamet, GFJ) will or won't help potentiate pro drugs like tramadol. "Harmlessly potentiating tramadol" has the right idea.

If one were to use the aforementioned inhibitors BEFORE a tramadol dose, they would slow the metabolization of tramadol into the more useful opiod-like o-desmethyltramadol. This would result in prolonged SSRI effects (dangerous risk of serotonin syndrome) and less mu opiod action.

But if one waits until AFTER most of the tramadol has been converted into o-desmethyltramadol (30 to 180 min depending on your liver and body) and then uses the inhibitors, it may enhance and should prolong the opiod like action of the drug by helping o-desmethyltramadol stick around

This can be see in the cascading process depicted in the link below, pay attention to the second tier down where cyp2d6, p3a4, and b6 interact with t- and o-desmethyltramadol
http://www.pharmgkb.org/pathway/PA165946349

I have tried tagamet twice with success, and even had wgfj work with improper timing (maybe placebo)

Today was try #2 : one 200mg tagamet tab ingested 2.5 hours (accidentally longer than wanted for my fast metabolism) after last staggered dose of tramadol equalling 200mg. Definitely saw my plateau buzz become revitalized, pupils got a bit smaller.

Tomorrow comes the real test. Time frame will look something like this
-60 min : Naproxyn
-30 min : 2 extra strength tums
0 min : 50mg ir tramadol
+20 min : 25mg ir tramadol (have not tried halving doses for more staggering, hoping this will be even more effective than normal 30-40 min intervals between 50mg doses)
+40 min : 25mg
+60 : 25mg (continued 25mg doses every 20 min until 250mg total reached)
...
+180 min : 25 mg - total dose reached
+ 220 min : ingest 3 oz of white grapefruit concentrate
+240 min : ingest one and a half tagamet tabs
(Weed thrown in somewhere there)

The science of this seems sound, so I'm hoping for stellar results by combining all the things that have seemed to work so far for me. But I'm no scientist so this is purely based on readings tramadol pharmacology and the experiences of others online.

If you have good or bad experiences with the SPECIFIC TIMING of these inhibitors, or any of the other general potentiators please share your stories!

My hope is that this is a good safe way for us tramadol lovers to squeeze the best parts out of this drug. Follow up report to come soon, all replies are appreciated.
~Californication

 

[Californication]

Update: I followed my aforementioned time frame and yielded pretty great results! Lovely opiod sensation, good euphoria, tiny pupils, zero pain. I think breaking doses in half to further stagger really helped!

Unfortunately I fell wade fishing and layed the shit out of my hand on an oyster bed, requiring a good number of stitches. This took away from some of the high as the tramadol contributed to pain relief. I was very thankful to have the tramadol in my system, I ended up stuck in pluff mud and had to pull myself up from under a dock with only my upper body (boots were too slippery for any traction)all while bleeding like a pig. Lost a lot of blood, dont know if I could have normally done that!

Even in a large amount of pain I still feel pretty great. Going to play with this more, would like to see other tramadol users try this out or share related experiences.

 

[ugly]

Did you experience opiate itch? Tramadol made me itch every time I used it.

 

[teological]

So I am guessing you guys have a very low tolerance to opiates? Like never tried heroin or oxy type tolerance?

 

[Sprout]

To be honest, potentiating tramadol seemed like a blocked avenue to me, the only thing that worked was dosage staggering - 100mg to start, then 50mg after 20 minutes, then 25 mg every 25 minutes until 400mg was hit. That hit me hard, even with a tolerance. Though I avoid SSRI's like the plague these days, mania isn't worth being a bit warm and itchy.

(The dosages here may be unsafe, Tramadol shouldn't be fucked with. Simple. ).

 

[pasha]

To potentiate tramadol you need inducers not inhibitors. Perhaps if you're looking for it's serotonergic properties after it's been converted what you say could work. IME though using inhibitors with tramadol just fucks things up.

Carisoprodol
Benzodiazepines
JWH
Pregabalin

Those are the only drugs I use to enhance my tramadol experience, and the only ones that truly work.

 

[Californication]

Ugly - yes I get a decent itch from tramadol, but its unpredictable.

teological - mild tolerance, would need 30mg of oxy/hydro to really get there. Never have or intend on trying H

Sprout - I agree, I love that tramadol is easy to acquire, doesn't have the opiate stigma, and is pretty strong for what it is within my personal physiology. Though I also agree I hate the impending doom of SSRIs and being in the danger zone of 3-400mg doses.

baoozs - yes and no. You are correct that inducers are the ones we want, but that is for the m2 (or first stage of the pro drug) metabolite. If we wait until most of the tramadol has been converted to o-desmethyltramadol than (theoretically) a inhibitor is actually of benefit just like classic opiods (o-desmethyltramadol is a strong opiod) helping them stay in circulation longer.

What we don't want is the seritonergic properties being increased, which increase the risk of seizures. So you were partially correct but have it reversed on the tramadol -> o-desmethyltramadol part.

But I agree soma and the aforementioned potentiators probably work better than tweaking metabolites.

Thank you all for the replys. Going to continue playing with variables in a search for the best and safest means of potentiation.

 

[pasha]

i'm quite well versed on the kinetics of tramadol. i'm not sure where you extracted that i said of the opposite of tramadol -> o-desmethyltramadol. the demethylation doesn't stop there as tramadol has dozens of metabolites.

my concern is you're not taking factors that are out of your control, and out of your objective knowledge into consideration. i've been tweaking around with tramadol for a decade and there's absolutely no telling on how it will metabolize. do you begin to see what i'm trying to say?

metabolisms are bespoke and unpredictable mechanisms and for one to be able to say "i'm going to drop an inhibitor right when tramadol stops its conversion to o-des" is unattainable.

if you're a chronic tramadol user as well this can tarnish the overall efficiency of the drug. many of these inhibitors have long half-lives. what happens when you need to take your second dose? you effectively hinder the efficiency of the conversion. then what? do you take an inducer like say, phenobarbital to counter this issue? been there, doesn't end up working in the long run and it's harmful.

 

[Californication]

I became mixed up when you suggested the seeking of an increase of the SSRI properties of tramadol.

And excuse my assumption of your knowledge on the subject.

I definitely agree that the variables are too great to consistently and safely potentiate tram. The biggest reason why I (today figured out) wont likely mess with tagamet is it was not at all preventing me from redosing - probably to a lessened effect - and the few posts about cimetidine and seizures are scary enough.

Now here is a question for you. I have legitimate neuromuscular pain from bulging disc, degenerative facet joints, and a subcondryl cyst, how hard would it be to acquire a script for pregabalin? I had a Soma script but that is now over, and Id love to have a true potentiator again.

 

[incomplete]

^ive sclerosis on one of my facet joints and theyre thrown down my throat by my most doctors. lyrica is being pushed (again) as well. pfizer ads, which have really been prevalent in recent months, have been subconsciously planting seeds in our heads to ask our doctor about any neuropathy and lyrica for treatment.

i dont use either. valium. i sometimes still wish i had scripts of either laying around for flare ups.

 

[teological]

I can get tramadols whenever I want for free. My friend stacked up supplies for years. I have a very high opiate tolerance and use daily....will Tramadol work? I have tried them on and off and hated them and found the had no euphoria. Thing is I have never tried staggered dosing....is it worth trying staggered dosing with a high oxy tolerance, with just the Tram no oxy?

 

[tyrael]

i'm quite well versed on the kinetics of tramadol....

+1 baooozs! (It's late and bit NYE but) I can't see where you've gone in your post. (In fact by the sounds of it I wouldn't mind a decent convo with yourself! )
Your reply does remind me of very common/easy (especially if one's new to this all) - and yet surprisingly an extensive - group of metabolic processees which at each point during metabolism can dramatically effect a drug's BA/effects.

....I have tried them on and off and hated them and found the had no euphoria. Thing is I have never tried staggered dosing....is it worth trying staggered dosing with a high oxy tolerance, with just the Tram no oxy?

Imo? No. Why try to build a habit of Tramadol use if you've already said you're quite adverse towards it to begin with. I'd personally take that as a win (one less opiate analogue to worry becoming addicited to). Although high oxy doses aren't much better, Tramadol (due to the accompanying side effects) means that there is an upper limit which is safe and above this, any positive effects due to the opiate receptor influence are over shadowed by the negatives (particuarily the serotonin system deficiency [and associated pathologies]). Tramadol's vast profile really does a lot more damage to the body (when not take as directed - there's reasons why in medical situations if analgesia is required above and beyone what Tramadol is able to safely provide, the next opiate in the list is chosen!)

In the end this is BL and a HM/HR site, so I couldn't really suggest/encourage either, best is none. However considering the safety profiles (of each drug, at the doses you're suggesting), additionally for someone with an apparently high opiate tolerance and will be ending up dosing regardless, oxy (assuming oxycodone here?) would eliminate all those serotonin toxicity, NMDA antagonistic, nAch/mAch and NA effects.

This is not to say become lax in dosing. Of course as oxy is a stronger opiate.