The EADD Metathread - Let's talk about how we can improve EADD

[knock]

Absolutely spot on.

Though from some quarters we're hearing that the BLUA isn't enough, and that people should undergo further consultation on what does and doesn't constitute acceptable behaviour. Rather than the it being up to the individual member to conform to the terms of the BLUA in the first place, and the responsibility of the mods to ensure that members comply.

Which seems bizarre to me, but there you go...

In my five years on BL, EADD has always been a place where a certain level of offensiveness, childishness and insensitivity has been tolerated. That includes in your time as moderator. I feel my own approach to moderating has in many ways simply been a continuation of that tradition. I am not a fan of such behaviour, and I sometimes challenge it in the hope that people might take a lesson and think twice. And sometimes it works. But the point I'm making is, rigid enforcement of the BLUA and EADD guidelines would be a clear change from a long tradition. And while it is probably a good thing to move towards, I do not want to alienate current members in the process. So I think consultation is reasonable. Something else I remember from your time as moderator is that many people, some of them very decent people, had a negative reaction to the times when you did enforce the rules rigidly. So I want to learn from that and try to avoid getting people's backs up too much :D I hope you don't feel that I'm going too far in making this criticism of your moderating, but I don't mind you criticising me in public. Also my general opinion is you did a pretty good job in difficult circumstances given some of the people who were very active during your time as mod, and some of the events that took place like the influx of heroin users in the wake of the drought, and the commotion that stirred up. That's not a criticism of the heroin users, but an acknowledgement of a certain culture clash which took place, in a rather nasty way at times.

Anyway, as mentioned before we have four moderators. Snolly is here. Where are MM and Albion?

 

[Sammy G]

In my five years on BL, EADD has always been a place where a certain level of offensiveness, childishness and insensitivity has been tolerated. That includes in your time as moderator. I feel my own approach to moderating has in many ways simply been a continuation of that tradition. I am not a fan of such behaviour, and I sometimes challenge it in the hope that people might take a lesson and think twice. And sometimes it works. But the point I'm making is, rigid enforcement of the BLUA and EADD guidelines would be a clear change from a long tradition.

Would it? I happen to disagree.

There's a difference between 'banter' and simply being offensive, and I think it's important to keep sight of that. However, it's equally important to realise when the line has been crossed. You don't have to depart from the framework of the rules to be able to make those calls; it should be a key part of the mod selection process to identify those who can.

When people fail to make a distinction between the two is when problems actually tend to arise.

 

[masaz]

Yeah, I've sometimes found myself a bit reluctant to act because of the nature of EADD, but we do seem to be getting more of outright offensiveness than just banter at the moment. I think we could do with enforcing the forum guidelines more or at least getting people to read them, god knows I couldn't recite them off the top of my head right now.

 

[Marmalade]

^ But in many ways, it's tamer than it's ever been Snollz, when you look back to the Bluntsie period, and Rockstar was running amok being a cunt left and right. That doesn't happen as much any more. It tends to be down to a few key posters, and maybe it's those posters who should be managed more tightly, than the whole forum.

What Snollz said mostly. Insensitive comments in RIP threads should be warned/infracted/removed/unapproved/whatever in all cases (imo, etc, etc) but there is always gonna be problems on the BLaw, the Letter of the BLaw how rigid and stringent they are, how and when they are applied and whose version of moral/ethical/social/political Truth is truest and such like is a far trickier beast altogether. The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship. It's not censorship it's basic human decency. EADD needs to be a place where any and all feel comfortable and safe to read, post and join in without having to worry about arseholes being dicks

(would that be a prolapse? i really should've thought that last sentence through properly )

Agree completely about the bolded bit. I think there is a clear case for certain threads to be protected. Especially in the RIP threads, or where someone has started a thread asking for help for instance. People being dicks in threads where people have and are asking for help for whatever reasons could be given a more militant approach when it comes to people being rude, ridiculing etc and just fucking around and whom are clearly not there to be of any help whatsoever. And they should be warned that their posts will get deleted (with poss infractions because essentially it goes against site ethos and goes against harm reduction

I think that's a good idea personally.

But stringent application of rules, forum wide as a reaction to what's happening is a mistake imo .. and what I suggested above I feel is fair. Rules don't always apply well verbatim for the reasons I outlined in my original post, and particularly in social threads, 'causing offence' is a term which isn't universal. And there needs to be an intergration period of new people getting used to where they are posting and how to use the forum without taking everything to heart. But also knowing they can ask for help and get serious replies without being ridiculed

EADD crosses a multitude of cultures and demographics and adaption works both ways.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

there's no need to hate on Sammy!

wtf

I feel like chief whipping boy since Mugs passed .

 

[Sammy G]

I feel like chief whipping boy since Mugs passed .

How so?

EADD crosses a multitude of cultures and demographics and adaption works both ways.

Drivel.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Would it? I happen to disagree.

There's a difference between 'banter' and simply being offensive, and I think it's important to keep sight of that. However, it's equally important to realise when the line has been crossed. You don't have to depart from the framework of the rules to be able to make those calls; it should be a key part of the mod selection process to identify those who can.

When people fail to make a distinction between the two is when problems actually tend to arise.

Yes, this is where it gets tricky, one persons banter is another persons cue to take offence. Banter is a fine art to master and understand, and is allways more likely to be misenterpreted online by people who dont know each other than it would be IRL.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

How so?

Just the continual masked knocks i get. It does my head in.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I think there is a clear case for certain threads to be protected. Especially in the RIP threads, or where someone has started a thread asking for help for instance. People being dicks in threads where people have and are asking for help for whatever reasons could be given a more militant approach when it comes to people being rude, ridiculing etc and just fucking around and whom are clearly not there to be of any help whatsoever. And they should be warned that their posts will get deleted (with poss infractions because essentially it goes against site ethos and goes against harm reduction

Completely agree with this, the context of the thread needs to be taken into account. And this is where people should tread more carefully and anything that you know instinctively that goes against the grain should not be tolerated in these threads in particular.

 

[Sammy G]

Just the continual masked knocks i get. It does my head in.

You were visited by a masked knock?

Seriously though, what do you mean, and from whom?

 

[ColtDan]

wtf

I feel like chief whipping boy since Mugs passed .

Just the continual masked knocks i get. It does my head in.

dont be silly we love ya lots

 

[masaz]

Agree completely about the bolded bit. I think there is a clear case for certain threads to be protected. Especially in the RIP threads, or where someone has started a thread asking for help for instance. People being dicks in threads where people have and are asking for help for whatever reasons could be given a more militant approach when it comes to people being rude, ridiculing etc and just fucking around and whom are clearly not there to be of any help whatsoever. And they should be warned that their posts will get deleted (with poss infractions because essentially it goes against site ethos and goes against harm reduction

The thing about certain threads being policed more militantly is something I was considering a while ago, but it fell by the wayside for whatever reason. Maybe it would be a good way of approaching things, because yeah some things are said in social threads that wouldn't fly in others, but the people who come here for help for whatever reason would still be able to feel ok about posting whatever?

I dunno. I think that could work, if it's made clear that's how things are so new posters know that they're free to post asking for help or whatever but if they're wandering into the social threads then it's going to be a more lax attitude. As someone said above, it should be fairly obvious what is banter and what isn't, but it can be hard to tell where to draw the line on occasion

edit: to clarify, I proposed the idea of adopting the support forum rules for threads here that deal with mental health, death, stuff like that. Obviously it could be less stringent if appropriate, it was just an idea that got put out there and then forgotten about, either for good reason or cos we're all lazy.

 

[wcote]

Being a dick in a RIP thread is just fucking stupid. And mods need to come down hard, despite who it is.

But I think we need people to publicly apologise more, I know I have been rude few times but I normally say sorry. What I find on here is some people are NEVER wrong so threads just turning into shite slinging matches. Which might be fun for a few people but on the whole the same people just look like muppets.

How about people stop digging holes and just say sorry?

 

[Raasyvibe]

As I said, it's fine to discuss these issues, but it would be better done in a more sensitive manner and in it's own thread. You have the power to create new threads. I know that, you've done it before.

Sometimes it's hard to hold back an opinion you feel somewhat strong about. Though I respect it was tactless, and I was drinking rather quickly after a long week. Controversial opinions and alcohol are not a great mix.

I respect the fact you've taken the time to discuss and resolve an issue rather than thoughtlessly hand out infractions, which just disgruntle members. In consideration I will react by saying if my drunken posts are becoming not so hilarious and more offensive, I simply won't post when drinking.

excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship.

Absolutely spot on.

Though from some quarters we're hearing that the BLUA isn't enough...

Sorry but in the music thread you post songs with the racist term beginning with "N" to wind up Jess who has mixed race children, and that's fine, but if I express a non-bigoted opinion tactlessly then "Warnings should be handed out rigorously". Hypocrite.

 

[Marmalade]

Something else I remember from your time as moderator is that many people, some of them very decent people, had a negative reaction to the times when you did enforce the rules rigidly. So I want to learn from that and try to avoid getting people's backs up too much :D

The manner in which it is enforced is a key point. The attitude and tone of how it's issued is key. To avoid further conflict the Mod enforcing the rules needs to possess the skills of not exacerbating the situation further, through choice of approach, language and an understanding of how to be effective when communicating with the particular poster.

 

[ColtDan]

Being a dick in a RIP thread is just fucking stupid. And mods need to come down hard, despite who it is.

Without a doubt, couldnt agree more

Who has been a dick in RIP threads? i cant recall

 

[Mendo_K]

The hypocrisy from some(one) in this thread is pretty painful.

 

[Sammy G]

The thing about certain threads being policed more militantly is something I was considering a while ago, but it fell by the wayside for whatever reason. Maybe it would be a good way of approaching things, because yeah some things are said in social threads that wouldn't fly in others, but the people who come here for help for whatever reason would still be able to feel ok about posting whatever?

I dunno. I think that could work, if it's made clear that's how things are.

At the end of the day though, if somebody's a dick in one thread, surely they're still a dick, regardless of which thread it's in?

Banter is banter and personal attacks are personal attacks. As long as you remember that, then there's no need to have different codes of behaviour for different threads.

Something else I remember from your time as moderator is that many people, some of them very decent people, had a negative reaction to the times when you did enforce the rules rigidly. So I want to learn from that and try to avoid getting people's backs up too much :D

I understand that. I also understand that with time you'll maybe realise that you really can't please everybody. This particular issue being a case in point.

Sorry but in the music thread you post songs with the racist term beginning with "N" to wind up Jess who has mixed race children, and that's fine, but if I express a non-bigoted opinion tactlessly then "Warnings should be handed out rigorously". Hypocrite.

What are you on about?

Who's Jess?

 

[ColtDan]

I was drinking rather quickly after a long week. Controversial opinions and alcohol are not a great mix.

Nobody cares about your cunty controversial opinions tbh, or your "i was drunk" bullshit excuse for being a cunt.

 

[masaz]

At the end of the day though, if somebody's a dick in one thread, surely they're still a dick, regardless of which thread it's in?

Banter is banter and personal attacks are personal attacks. As long as you remember that, then there's no need to have different codes of behaviour for different threads.

Yeah absolutely, I'm just proposing it as a solution by which people can still come here for advice and feel 'safe' without us necessarily having to make everyone use nice words all the time and whatnot in the social threads. This theoretical member asking for help can make their thread, and go into a social thread and think 'oh so and so is a cunt' but so and so can't go and be a cunt all over the thread asking for support. It's not ideal, just an idea.

And that wasn't an attempt at a pun either.

edit: But I think, even in the case of social threads vs support threads, people should still think about how they phrase stuff, I just don't want it to be a barrier to people posting either. Like 'Oh can I say this? Is this too far?' etc. I mean that type of stuff should be common sense but yeah