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Official Paedo Discussion Megathread v2

Isn't H from Steps also called Ian "H" Watkins and also an ex-pop star and also Welsh?

The poot sod must be shitting bricks, even more so than a doctor who specialised in conditions that affected the young and who enjoyed boring people with a very expensive hi-fi system .....
 
Uncle Robert said:
I hope they don't diagnose him as a psychopath as that would be a bit of a cop out imo. Sometimes people are just evil.
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Are they? That's a whole other can of worms which is beyond the scope of this thread.

What I will say is that labelling somebody 'evil' without attempting to understand the underlying motives behind their actions doesn't help to prevent these kinds of incidents from occurring in the future. Nor does it help the victims.

BecomingJulie said:
Isn't H from Steps also called Ian "H" Watkins and also an ex-pop star and also Welsh?

The poot sod must be shitting bricks, even more so than a doctor who specialised in conditions that affected the young and who enjoyed boring people with a very expensive hi-fi system .....
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Did you read about the website that published his photo in connection with the story?

Oh, and I was able to find the co-defendants' names in seconds. I imagine others were too. The internet, eh?
 
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Sammy G said:
Are they? That's a whole other can of worms which is beyond the scope of this thread.
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I would say so. While somebody may have experienced awful abuse or times in their life that was in no way their fault, doesn't mean they can't be evil. Even if somebody felt remorse for what they did I wouldn't say that prevents them being an evil person.
 
Like I said, it's beyond the scope of this thread, but I think that it doesn't do much good to just label somebody 'evil' and not attempt to gain some insight into what might have motivated them, whether that's their own childhood abuse or otherwise.

Certainly his actions were 'evil', no question. As were those of his co-defendants.
 
We could have a new thread, although use of the term "evil" seems to me like something from theology and we have a theology thread.

I agree with Sam that if there is any cop out, it's calling someone evil, because it represents no attempt to understand the phenomenon and therefore offers no hope of us doing anything about preventing "evil" events in future. Surely the whole point of discussing a phenomenon like sexual abuse of infants is to come to some arrangement whereby it stops happening.
 
Sammy G said:
Are they? That's a whole other can of worms which is beyond the scope of this thread.

What I will say is that labelling somebody 'evil' without attempting to understand the underlying motives behind their actions doesn't help to prevent these kinds of incidents from occurring in the future. Nor does it help the victims.
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Thanks for that. It needed saying. It's too easy to dehumanise people, to distance ourselves from them and persuade ourselves that they are so different from us that we could never do the same things ourselves and, perhaps most importantly, that we, ourselves, do not need to make any special effort to stop unpleasant things from happening. Simply declaring some people to be monsters is a way of Not Thinking About It; and while it might provide a bit of instant gratification, unless we make an effort to understand why it happened, and what could and should have been done to prevent it from happening and -- assuming that the universe behaves deterministically, or at least as near so on the macroscopic, non-quantum scale as "damn it" is to swearing -- can and must be done in future to prevent it from happening again, we are effectively condemning future generations to the same fate.

It may be unpleasant to learn why someone like Watkins, or Savile, or any of thousands of others did the things they did; but if there is any scientific explanation, it will be found if we look for it. And knowing that, we can begin to prevent it from ever happening again.

And I don't doubt it's a complex combination of disparate factors working together in concert and affecting only certain susceptible individuals. If it was that obvious, we'd have worked it out already. But if I was a bookie, I certainly wouldn't be giving long odds on unhealthy cultural attitudes surrounding all things sexual figuring in it somewhere.
Sammy G said:
Did you read about the website that published his photo in connection with the story?
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Shit. No, that one passed me by. Shit. I'll be more careful what I joke about in future. remembers who started this thread, and pauses silently for a moment. Shit.

Sammy G said:
Oh, and I was able to find the co-defendants' names in seconds. I imagine others were too. The internet, eh?
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It's a double-edged sword, alright .....
 
I can think of somebody as evil and still want to know why they did what they did, what their motives were etc. I'm not saying he did what he did because he is evil, I'm saying he's evil because of what he did.
 
H from Steps receives torrents of vile abuse after being mixed up with 'paedophile' Ian Watkins

Popstar forced to abandon Twitter as he's wrongly mistaken for Lostprophets singer

IT'S been a horrific mix-up.

H from Steps, real name Ian Watkins, has received torrents of abuse after being wrongly mistaken for Lostprophets singer Ian Watkins - who on Tuesday admitted 11 counts of child abuse including two charges of attempting to rape a baby.

ian-h-watkins-steps-90s-pop-band-ian-watkins-guilty-child-rape-peodophile.jpg


Ian 'H' Watkins clearly anticipated the abuse he would receive as he wrote a message to his fans on the day of the court case.

Talking to Twitter, the 37-year-old said: "Decided to have a break from twitter...Not sure when I'll be back...Big Hugs to you all x H x."

But the 90s pop legend was still subjected to vile abuse as fans targeted their hate for the 'paedophile' at him on Facebook.

The insults led to an official statement being posted on the Steps star's social network page.

And the message read: "Just to clear out some of the abuse there has been the past few hours…This is the ‘Official Ian H Watkins’ website. Better known as H from Steps."

They added: "H is in NO WAY related with the news about the singer from Lostprophets! Please don’t post any comments about the news here because they will be deleted. Thank you!"

Related article: Ian Watkins' ex-girlfriend 'warned police' about him

Adding to the nightmare was American entertainment site E! Online, who used an image of H rather than Ian Watkins in an article about his court case.

The website later issued an apology, changing the image and writing: "This story was originally published with an image of Ian 'H' Watkins of the band Steps rather than Ian Watkins of Lostprophets. E! Online regrets this error."

The former Lostprophets frontman is scheduled for sentencing on 18th December.

http://www.ok.co.uk/celebrity-news/...er-being-mixed-up-with-paedophile-ian-watkins
 
'Evil'...Why does that word get used so much? What is it saying? That we are all judging with Christian ethics??
 
Like Julie says, I think it's a way of establishing Us and Them, we're not evil, we wouldn't do that, but him and his type are evil, they're different, and therefore, we can probably just burn them at the stake!
 
Exactly, Knock.

Consider the phrase "Beyond the pale". Pale being an old word for a stake (cf. impaled), a boundary marker. "Beyond the pale" refers to an action that those uncivilised barbarians outside our town might commit, but that we moral, upstanding citizens would never dream of.
 
@Bob But without a God to uphold your axis of good and evil, we might as well just go for an axis of full/empty, or early/late, or quiet/noisy.

I prefer to see events in terms of the people involved in them and the relations between them. Power relations. In this case, a helpless child was violated by a powerful adult male. It's an abuse of power. Being in a band and having fame and adoration probably went to his head.
 
He probably always had these kinds of fantasies....It's not as though he started getting them when he became 'powerful'. He was just able to act on them when his power was handed to him on a plate.
 
Albion said:
He probably always had these kinds of fantasies....It's not as though he started getting them when he became 'powerful'. He was just able to act on them when his power was handed to him on a plate.
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Maybe... I'm not sure why you think that's the case though? I can imagine him having groupies throwing themselves at him and him thinking "oh fuck I'm special now! I can do whatever I want" and then his desires roving across increasingly abusive terrain.

This is what happens to mods on Bluelight isn't it :D we get the taste, stretch our abusive limbs, then finally we end up like alasdair. I'm only joking alasdair!
 
knock said:
Maybe... I'm not sure why you think that's the case though? I can imagine him having groupies throwing themselves at him and him thinking "oh fuck I'm special now! I can do whatever I want" and then his desires roving across increasingly abusive terrain.
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What caused his desires to begin to roam said terrain though? That's the crucial question. It's not like this is an inevitable consequence of status, is it?
 
Sammy G said:
What caused his desires to begin to roam said terrain though? That's the crucial question. It's not like this is an inevitable consequence of status, is it?
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Perhaps not an inevitable consequence of status but going by current events and indeed historical events, a probable consequence of status.

And of course I don't mean you have to be a superstar, status in a power relation can just be that you dominate another human being or three for some reason.
 
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