NBOMe (25i, 25c, 25b) are now schedule 1; Discussion and Speculation.

[badfish45]

In my opinion, at least its more likely that LSD being sold would be real LSD. The idea was that NBOME was easily sold as LSD and was very profitable, and legal, thus far easier to obtain. But only time will tell the trends. For now, it will still run around the streets for a while.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I wish they would have done this sooner and left the 2C-x alone, it certainly would have been a more harm reductive move.

Why did the DEA select solely these 3 compounds to schedule?

They'll grab some vendors of other bomamines via the analogue act, and scare the non-TOR based market from selling anything related to US customers. Specific scheduling is best when you want to get individual users, but the feds choose not go that route. Unless they catch someone extracting DMT, then they get a nice headline for busting a manufacturer of an evil and dangerous hallucinogen.

 

[Lysergamided]

And where are these "safer" alternatives to anything that you speak of? What has been the safer alternative to LSD or shrooms?
There literally isn't anything safer and won't be. What has been the safer alternative to MDMA? Methylone??? What do you think the "safer" alternative will be to the NBOMe series? The NBOH series? Show me where safety has trumped novelty and profit. To a very large degree, we have only seen the NBOMe series because the safer "classic psychedelics" have been scheduled not the other way around.

Safe alternatives to N-benzyl derivatives, like LSD, mescaline, 2c-b and shrooms, should be legalized as they are safe compounds that have that have been studied for years so we know the risks involved and possible contradictions. Though this is unlikely to happen I can see one day in the future that it does. Research chemicals have destroyed drug-laws and I don't think there is any recovery, unless Governments create a very solid analogue act or a act based on pharmacology but even then there still will probably grey areas.

 

[ebola?]

0.2 % fatality rate estimation for the NBOMe series??? Even if we guesstimated that up 5 times to 1% that's actually a very very good safety profile for most drugs

What are you talking about? .2% is a horrible safety record. If this were true of MDMA, there would have been ~24,000 deaths due to MDMA usage to date in the US alone (12 million having tried it at some point seems reasonable...it's the only rough data I found). And this is assuming that that figure is lifetime risk of fatality.
...
I dunno. It looks like some of the NBF and NBMD series analogues are likely partial agonists instead, so this ban could actually prove beneficial in some ways.

ebola

 

[LSD Cruiser]

Interesting. It does appear they are partial agonists but what I hear of 25I-NBF is terrible body load, terribly unpsychedelic. The typical 2C-X analogs are getting tiring. What's the deal with 2CTFM-NBOMe? Last I heard it was a partial agonist, but is it worth pursuing?

I made the 0.2% NBOMe mortality rate up of course assuming only 10,000 have tried NBOMe, which is probably quite the underestimate - I just don't have any way of knowing. But let's crunch some numbers. Alcohol due to its legal status and social acceptability is what I hold a substance's safety profile against so I'm sure a lot of you can understand that.

In 2010, there were 25,692 people who died as a result of alcohol overdose (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_04.pdf). Roughly 65.7% of the population had at least one drink of alcohol that year. (http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/drinking-statistics). The United States had 308,745,531 living in it in 2010, so we can guess that 202,845,815 drank at least one drink of alcohol that year. If 25,962 out of 202,845,815 died directly from overdose of alcohol that means .01% died directly as a result of drinking alcohol. The numbers go up considerably if you consider accidents, diseases and homicides, but we're going by a pure physical response here in one setting as NBOMe's can't really be used quite as chronically as alcohol. If .2% die from NBOMes then it is reasonable to assume they are indeed quite dangerous. I'm guessing the range where 50/50 survive starts at the 4-5mg level and is quite effortless to achieve by carelessness, whereas a .4% BAC on the other hand usually takes some effort.

 

[my3rdeye]

I would bet the DEA starts watch and laying traps for customers ordering these newly scheduled chems. I would be worried about even ordering anything from a vendor with these listed. Surveillance probably mostly sees money trails, shipping trails and communicating foot prints so they probably have no clue who is buying unscheduled or scheduled. Gram of XYZ or gram of 25c-NBOMe ? Same digital footprint.

US customs may or may not be in the business of holding packages of drugs that are soon to be banned and then releasing them right after the ban and busting anyone who accepts package. I know a few people who believe this has happened to them. There is no way the DEA cares if you bought it before it was sheduled or not.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

What are you talking about? .2% is a horrible safety record. If this were true of MDMA, there would have been ~24,000 deaths due to MDMA usage to date in the US alone (12 million having tried it at some point seems reasonable...it's the only rough data I found). And this is assuming that that figure is lifetime risk of fatality.
...
I dunno. It looks like some of the NBF and NBMD series analogues are likely partial agonists instead, so this ban could actually prove beneficial in some ways.

ebola

I stand corrected! That figure seemed pretty low to me.

 

[ebola?]

In my mind, if probability of death with somewhat sensible dosing (and accounting for contraindicated health conditions) is more than a freak-occurrence, the drug is too dangerous.

ebola

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I'm certainly not going to make the argument that the NBOMe series are the safest class of R/C's but from reading through just about every fatality I could find, it sure seems that snorting it causing by far most of the problems. I still personally feel fine exlporing the NBOMe's buccally, uncomplexed ( I always wondered if complexing with cyclodextrin was actually making it much more dangerous?) and making sure nothing else is consumed - exempt possibly an NSAID if muscle tension develops.
I totally understand why anyone else would never take these again.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Honestly, snorting anything seems to be what causes the most problems with RCs. The 2C-T-7 deaths and hospitalizations were mostly from insufflation as well. I don't recommend that RoA for most things unless its absolutely necessary (like with DPT).

The problem with NBOMe's is their unpredictable dose/response curve and just their sheer potency. Not many people had scales accurate enough to measure them out, including the vendors.

I know of a Canadian vendor that only had a +/- 1mg scale they were using to weigh out NBOMe shipments for quite awhile....

 

[electrodevo]

In my opinion, at least its more likely that LSD being sold would be real LSD. The idea was that NBOME was easily sold as LSD and was very profitable, and legal, thus far easier to obtain. But only time will tell the trends. For now, it will still run around the streets for a while.

It has not worked that way for methylone in the United States, which has been Schedule I for a while and a MDMA substitute in "molly" all the same.

Ballz_Trippington: Not always, but in general, I see more focus in US law enforcement focus on who *deals* the drugs. My guess is that the specific scheduling is most targeted particularly at those who order chemicals from uncontrolled places (such as China) and either sell them over the Internet, or lay them on blotter and sell them as fake LSD. Users do get arrested too, but I don't see them targeted as much.

Again, as per methylone above and many other scenarios, this does not work too well as far as preventing drugs from getting around. It does a good job of keeping our prisons full, though. The prison industry has been a cushy job to be in if you were in the US.

(To be honest I'm expecting that to change. We no longer can afford our massive penal scheme, and citizens are slowly pushing back against things that have kept prisons full -- for instance, marijuana criminalization and related, three strike / mandatory minimum laws, etc. But it will be a while before synthetic drug policy reform happens. As the most dangerous synthetics in the US, in terms of # of deaths per year, are synthetic "legal" opioids like Oxycontin -- I expect something to happen there, too, somehow, eventually. We live in curious times.).

As to why those three, and not a blanket NBOMe ban? No idea. I guess maybe the idea would be to keep the other chemicals available for use in actual scientific research.