Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
Pato? Seriously? AC Milan couldn't wait to get rid of him, always on the treatment table, I mean he literally never used to play, if not injury-prone he could have been a great player but he's useless.
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2013-2014 Football Thread v.3 - Come on You Hull
- Thread starter StoneHappyMonday
- Start date
*dharmabum*
Bluelighter
^ does that not sound perfect for Arsenal?
Funny guy. According to the arsenal medical team, in a study conducted by UEFA on injuries in european football clubs, arsenal ranked somewhere in the middle. Every club has injury prone players.
I do admit that arsenal have a lot. The reasoning behind this is that arsene sculpts players through exercise and nutrition that are slim and fragile. This promotes agility, flexibility, and technical ability at the expense of getting easily injured. Arsenal would be a much more fitting club to spanish football than to english football.
Best example is van persie now, and van persie in arsenal. He's muscular, toned, and looks much bigger now as opposed to his arsenal days were he was much smaller.
The united game was pretty shambolic. Arsenal were rubbish, but then again, so were united. The game consisted of several things:
-useless and impotent possession by arsenal
-lack of understanding in the final third from arsenal
-midfield battles between both team that looked like a pinball game. Absolutely no fluidity to the match.
-break up play and counter-attacks from united that rarely materialized.
-arsenal had no wide outlet other than sagna were as united had valencia constantly causing gibbs problems and rooney and kagawa combining down the left. This couldn't be further underlined with the introduction of serge gnabry, who made and instant impact and put united under pressure right from the get go.
In the end, the poorer of the two poor teams lost. The deflected header separated both sides. Having said that, congratulations on the 3 points to all you united fans. You're right back in it now.
As for pato. I'd honestly rather see benteke at arsenal. He's a gooner at heart, and he's a ridiculously good player. Put this guy in a top class team and I have no doubt he'll become world class (in the overused sense of the word).
I do admit that arsenal have a lot. The reasoning behind this is that arsene sculpts players through exercise and nutrition that are slim and fragile. This promotes agility, flexibility, and technical ability at the expense of getting easily injured. Arsenal would be a much more fitting club to spanish football than to english football.
Best example is van persie now, and van persie in arsenal. He's muscular, toned, and looks much bigger now as opposed to his arsenal days were he was much smaller.
The united game was pretty shambolic. Arsenal were rubbish, but then again, so were united. The game consisted of several things:
-useless and impotent possession by arsenal
-lack of understanding in the final third from arsenal
-midfield battles between both team that looked like a pinball game. Absolutely no fluidity to the match.
-break up play and counter-attacks from united that rarely materialized.
-arsenal had no wide outlet other than sagna were as united had valencia constantly causing gibbs problems and rooney and kagawa combining down the left. This couldn't be further underlined with the introduction of serge gnabry, who made and instant impact and put united under pressure right from the get go.
In the end, the poorer of the two poor teams lost. The deflected header separated both sides. Having said that, congratulations on the 3 points to all you united fans. You're right back in it now.
As for pato. I'd honestly rather see benteke at arsenal. He's a gooner at heart, and he's a ridiculously good player. Put this guy in a top class team and I have no doubt he'll become world class (in the overused sense of the word).
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Deflected header? Still a little bitter I see :D Anyway yeah Utd played poor, its obvious kagawa cant and dosent play on the wing, he never even tried to beat a man, just ran inwards or passed it. You only see kagawas true ability when hes behind the striker in a free role. I dont care how we won, 3 poins were all that mattered, hardly a classic it was very scruffy. Again playing a defender in midfield shows how short we are, if we had kept hold of Pogba and Morrison.... jesus, anyway moyes said hes still a while away from being fully happy with the team. I expect a winger, midfielder and a LB + RB probally, he dosent seem to fancy rafael or fabio.
What about the clubs that both spent almost £100m each, not much talk of them in "crisis" is there, because they are not expected to be in the title race I guess, as I said before anyway its wide open now.
What about the clubs that both spent almost £100m each, not much talk of them in "crisis" is there, because they are not expected to be in the title race I guess, as I said before anyway its wide open now.
Well. What united have is experience is their upper hand. And as I mentioned before, I don't think spurs spent their money wisely. I think they have a large squad of decent players. None are top bracket.
What united need for me is to start playing zaha in the wing. Valencia is an excellent player if he gets a chance. He's a pure out-and-out winger and probably in his position, if deployed correctly, better than walcott. In terms of what they should buy, I think united have great full backs. Raphael is great, and I think at left back you have buttner as well? Not sure.
One thing I would address is that united need a false 10. Someone better than kagawa. Someone in the mold of david silve, or ozil. You might say we have rooney. For me, rooney is at his best when he's playing as 9. His natural position. He's a decent 10, but he still can't provide you with that killer through ball that perhaps ozil, isco, gotze, or eriksen can. Perhaps united should be looking to accommodate both rvp and rooney as front men just as liverpool have done with SAS.
The biggest department though is a world-class central midfielder. Cesc is a great example of what they might need, or perhaps sahin. But they're not gonna get cesc. I think cleverly is shite, and carrick is getting old. Pogba, as you said, was massive loss. You should attribute that to SAF's stubborn mentality. He refused to play him in a league cup match when united were something like 2 nill down.
United XI as I'd like to see it based on the current players
-------------------Van Persie---------------------------
Zaha---------Rooney/Kagawa---------Valencia/Nani
------------Carrick-------------Fellaini----------------
Evra---------Vidic--------------Ferdi----------Raphael
I think that's as good as it gets at the moment. Having said and done all this, I still don't think moyes is going to bring in a brand of football that the fans want to see, or any silverware. Sorry, he just doesn't know it, and his appointment was still a mistake. United should be playing an attractive, free flowing, unique, attacking, stylish brand of football. Not grinding out results with functional football. This isn't everton.
If you're ideology says, trophies at any cost, then you need revisit your standards and the reasons you watch football in the first place. Playing good football should always be the priority, and the trophies being the result of it. Not the other way around.
Klopp to united, then we start talking about a really strong team.
[edit]
Oh, and yes it was deflected header. Not bitter at all man. If you offered me at the start of the season our current position in the table I would take it in flash. The header was deflected. It wasn't even a header, it was shoulder shot. This isn't coming from me, they analyzed it on TV in close up and slow motion. It hit rvp's shoulder and girouds head at the same time and deflected into the goal.
Here, from the man himself:
Some people, with all due respect, are so naive that they brand it as a 'brilliant flick on header'. Had it actually went where rvp wanted it to go, it would have been straight at the keeper.
What united need for me is to start playing zaha in the wing. Valencia is an excellent player if he gets a chance. He's a pure out-and-out winger and probably in his position, if deployed correctly, better than walcott. In terms of what they should buy, I think united have great full backs. Raphael is great, and I think at left back you have buttner as well? Not sure.
One thing I would address is that united need a false 10. Someone better than kagawa. Someone in the mold of david silve, or ozil. You might say we have rooney. For me, rooney is at his best when he's playing as 9. His natural position. He's a decent 10, but he still can't provide you with that killer through ball that perhaps ozil, isco, gotze, or eriksen can. Perhaps united should be looking to accommodate both rvp and rooney as front men just as liverpool have done with SAS.
The biggest department though is a world-class central midfielder. Cesc is a great example of what they might need, or perhaps sahin. But they're not gonna get cesc. I think cleverly is shite, and carrick is getting old. Pogba, as you said, was massive loss. You should attribute that to SAF's stubborn mentality. He refused to play him in a league cup match when united were something like 2 nill down.
United XI as I'd like to see it based on the current players
-------------------Van Persie---------------------------
Zaha---------Rooney/Kagawa---------Valencia/Nani
------------Carrick-------------Fellaini----------------
Evra---------Vidic--------------Ferdi----------Raphael
I think that's as good as it gets at the moment. Having said and done all this, I still don't think moyes is going to bring in a brand of football that the fans want to see, or any silverware. Sorry, he just doesn't know it, and his appointment was still a mistake. United should be playing an attractive, free flowing, unique, attacking, stylish brand of football. Not grinding out results with functional football. This isn't everton.
If you're ideology says, trophies at any cost, then you need revisit your standards and the reasons you watch football in the first place. Playing good football should always be the priority, and the trophies being the result of it. Not the other way around.
Klopp to united, then we start talking about a really strong team.
[edit]
Oh, and yes it was deflected header. Not bitter at all man. If you offered me at the start of the season our current position in the table I would take it in flash. The header was deflected. It wasn't even a header, it was shoulder shot. This isn't coming from me, they analyzed it on TV in close up and slow motion. It hit rvp's shoulder and girouds head at the same time and deflected into the goal.
Here, from the man himself:
Some people, with all due respect, are so naive that they brand it as a 'brilliant flick on header'. Had it actually went where rvp wanted it to go, it would have been straight at the keeper.
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*dharmabum*
Bluelighter
Yeah sorry that was a glib comment, I'm actually an Arsenal fan.
Completely agree with all of this, I know he'd been affected by this bug but I thought the game was crying out for his introduction - even if it would have been a little risky - and couldn't believe Wenger brought on Bendnter before him.
The thing is Kagawa is world class #10, he just does not have the chance to play there. We have Rooney and Van Persie, can you really afford to drop either of them? I dont think you can, then Hernandez and Welbeck both waiting also, I think Kagawa may have been a wrong buy from fergie, basically... we cant accommodate him into the team. When he played behind RVP against Madrid in the CL thats where he flourishes, play him in that role in the next 5 games and you would see his talent. Watch how he played for dortmund and how he plays for Japan.
Zaha its too early too tell, hes had no game time. Valencia and Nani ahead of him, Nani though blows hot and cold too much, he absolutely shocking some games, then good for maybe one game, not good enough. Buttner cant defend to save his life, hes not Utd quality. Our football is currently pretty shocking, but its no better than last season under fergie, or the one before.
Spoken like a true gunner, honestly every single Arsenal fan says that. "But oh we play good footall etc, your boring". Why dosent the world tell that to Mourinho before they climb out his arsehole? Would you rather have shit loads of possession for the next 10 years and not win a single trophy? Or would you rather go and win it all? Tell that to every fan that goes to big teams and defends, would they rather watch the team play better football? Yeah most likely, but they would take a win over fancy football everyday of the week.
Zaha its too early too tell, hes had no game time. Valencia and Nani ahead of him, Nani though blows hot and cold too much, he absolutely shocking some games, then good for maybe one game, not good enough. Buttner cant defend to save his life, hes not Utd quality. Our football is currently pretty shocking, but its no better than last season under fergie, or the one before.
Spoken like a true gunner, honestly every single Arsenal fan says that. "But oh we play good footall etc, your boring". Why dosent the world tell that to Mourinho before they climb out his arsehole? Would you rather have shit loads of possession for the next 10 years and not win a single trophy? Or would you rather go and win it all? Tell that to every fan that goes to big teams and defends, would they rather watch the team play better football? Yeah most likely, but they would take a win over fancy football everyday of the week.
Kagawa was excellent for dortmund. In the modern day 4-5-1 formations though, how do you accommodate him? That's why I said a false 10 is crucial. False 10 are unconventional pocket players that drift all through the front line. You see that with silva, cazorla, and ozil. Always interchanging positions. Pure 10's like kagawa, and perhaps even gotze have a difficult time on the wings.
You can switch to a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2 like liverpool have done. It would look something like this with a 4-4-2:
-------------van persie----------rooney------------------
------------------------kagawa----------------------------
Zaha------------------carrick--------------------valencia
Personally, I'm a big fan of zaha and I think he'll do great if given the chance. Managers nowadays are so cautious, or afraid to play young players. United's game plan has always involved great wingers. It's always been about getting the ball to the wide men and flashing crosses or passes into the box. Last year SAF decided that if you want to play out wide, hugging the touchline, you play as right back/left back, and the wingers/attacking midfielders cut in. So he adapted to what modern football teams do. Wingers tuck in, full backs go out wide. That's why you saw valencia playing as a right back last season.
Moyes has reverted to a flat back 4. Allowing only evra to go forward. The wingers go out wide. That system is obsolete and outdated. It does yield results, especially on the counter-attack. If you want to be playing free flowing football, you have to overload the midfield with attacking midfielders who drop in and full backs who go outside and provide width. The best teams in the world often have players who have fantastic chemistry between right back and right wing, left back and wing etc. Of course if you want the full backs to be involved in the final third they have to be good on the ball.
Mourinho is a lucky coach and a psychologist. Not a good one. He's an expert at instilling an "us vs them" mentality. He did it at inter, he did it at madrid, and he did it in his last spell at chelsea. Mourinho's teams have always been organized defensively, robust, hard to break down, and potent on the counter-attack. He plays negative football. Someone like SAF believes there's no such thing as a defensive midfielder, someone like mourinho worships that role.
Mourinho's first CL was an absolute joke. He faced monaco in the final, and knocked out manchester united in the quarter finals from a deflected free-kick. That's why I always say, in the CL, a couple of easy fixtures and some luck your way and you can win it. The premiere league is 10x harder to win than the CL. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Because the CL is a cup competition, the name is misleading. It's not a league competition. Only the CL proper is. And the way the seeding system works the top teams more often than not get of their groups with ease.
It's not really about possession. I hate the possession based game. The beauty of the invincible's team was that you knew after 8,9,10 passes someone is going to slice the defense open with a killer ball. It was a delight to watch that continuously for 90 minutes. I don't like the barcelona way. It's boring, and arsenal are far more direct. When we beat them 2-1 at the emirates, we sliced them open with 3 passes. Fabregas from the arsenal box took out 3-4 players with a exquisite through pass to walcott who got on his bike all the way to the touchline, and passed it to arshavin who finished it off. Goals that make the game more exciting to watch. Fundamentally, it's about being entertained. If you're not being entertained, what's the point of watching football? Some people easily lose that perspective because the feeling of glory, winning, and bashing other teams overwhelms the thirst to watch quality football. Hence why a lot of united fans, with all due respect, and this is not aimed at you, are glory hunters.
Look at this first goal in this video. One of may favorites. This is why I love arsenal:
I miss fabregas
dharmabum, nice to have another arsenalist on board :D
I just felt like correcting the modern myth of arsenal injuries.
You can switch to a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2 like liverpool have done. It would look something like this with a 4-4-2:
-------------van persie----------rooney------------------
------------------------kagawa----------------------------
Zaha------------------carrick--------------------valencia
Personally, I'm a big fan of zaha and I think he'll do great if given the chance. Managers nowadays are so cautious, or afraid to play young players. United's game plan has always involved great wingers. It's always been about getting the ball to the wide men and flashing crosses or passes into the box. Last year SAF decided that if you want to play out wide, hugging the touchline, you play as right back/left back, and the wingers/attacking midfielders cut in. So he adapted to what modern football teams do. Wingers tuck in, full backs go out wide. That's why you saw valencia playing as a right back last season.
Moyes has reverted to a flat back 4. Allowing only evra to go forward. The wingers go out wide. That system is obsolete and outdated. It does yield results, especially on the counter-attack. If you want to be playing free flowing football, you have to overload the midfield with attacking midfielders who drop in and full backs who go outside and provide width. The best teams in the world often have players who have fantastic chemistry between right back and right wing, left back and wing etc. Of course if you want the full backs to be involved in the final third they have to be good on the ball.
Mendo said:
Mourinho is a lucky coach and a psychologist. Not a good one. He's an expert at instilling an "us vs them" mentality. He did it at inter, he did it at madrid, and he did it in his last spell at chelsea. Mourinho's teams have always been organized defensively, robust, hard to break down, and potent on the counter-attack. He plays negative football. Someone like SAF believes there's no such thing as a defensive midfielder, someone like mourinho worships that role.
Mourinho's first CL was an absolute joke. He faced monaco in the final, and knocked out manchester united in the quarter finals from a deflected free-kick. That's why I always say, in the CL, a couple of easy fixtures and some luck your way and you can win it. The premiere league is 10x harder to win than the CL. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Because the CL is a cup competition, the name is misleading. It's not a league competition. Only the CL proper is. And the way the seeding system works the top teams more often than not get of their groups with ease.
It's not really about possession. I hate the possession based game. The beauty of the invincible's team was that you knew after 8,9,10 passes someone is going to slice the defense open with a killer ball. It was a delight to watch that continuously for 90 minutes. I don't like the barcelona way. It's boring, and arsenal are far more direct. When we beat them 2-1 at the emirates, we sliced them open with 3 passes. Fabregas from the arsenal box took out 3-4 players with a exquisite through pass to walcott who got on his bike all the way to the touchline, and passed it to arshavin who finished it off. Goals that make the game more exciting to watch. Fundamentally, it's about being entertained. If you're not being entertained, what's the point of watching football? Some people easily lose that perspective because the feeling of glory, winning, and bashing other teams overwhelms the thirst to watch quality football. Hence why a lot of united fans, with all due respect, and this is not aimed at you, are glory hunters.
Look at this first goal in this video. One of may favorites. This is why I love arsenal:
I miss fabregas
dharmabum, nice to have another arsenalist on board :D
I just felt like correcting the modern myth of arsenal injuries.
Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
Fuck that, I hate football snobbery and I especially don't like a lot of the football hipsters who post on The Guardian footie section, there's no such thing as "good football", the only thing that matters is the score sheet, there's effective football and there's shite football, when it's ineffective in bringing about the desired outcomes, which are winning matches and winning trophies.
"Playing good football should always be the priority, and the trophies being the result of it. Not the other way around."
This is by far the douchebaggiest comment I've ever read on this forum, are you having a laugh? Good football is what gets you three points, that's all there is too it, the objective of the game is to put the ball in the net more times than your opponents, not mental masturbation on the amount of side passes the team has completed.
That's utter tosh, how do you define good football anyway? Is it what Arsenal play? For me the most attractive football is what Germany played in 2010, I absolutely abhor the style Barcelona had under Guardiola, found it more boring that watching paint dry, posession for posession's sake is bollocks. Give me kick and rush any day
"Playing good football should always be the priority, and the trophies being the result of it. Not the other way around."
This is by far the douchebaggiest comment I've ever read on this forum, are you having a laugh? Good football is what gets you three points, that's all there is too it, the objective of the game is to put the ball in the net more times than your opponents, not mental masturbation on the amount of side passes the team has completed.
That's utter tosh, how do you define good football anyway? Is it what Arsenal play? For me the most attractive football is what Germany played in 2010, I absolutely abhor the style Barcelona had under Guardiola, found it more boring that watching paint dry, posession for posession's sake is bollocks. Give me kick and rush any day
There is such a thing as good football. It depends what you're definition of good football is. Some people like counter-attacking football. Some people like a high pressing game like dortmund. Other people like mechanical football like bayern munich. Others like free flowing one touch football. Some like a possession based game. Some like a combination of all of the above. Get it?
If you read my post properly, you'd realize that I don't like barcelona's possession based game. Arsenal's is far different to that. Far more direct.
If you think football is as simple as putting the ball in the back if then net, then good for you. Perhaps we should have every team should play 9-0-1 formation, kick the ball up the field route 1 style, and hope it ends up in the back of the net. You should get into watching stoke.
If you want to see good football, and how I define it. Watch the sunderland city match. See how poyet transformed sunderland and watch how they were moving the ball about in the first half. Absolutely outstanding. That's good football.
Contrary to what you said, effective football, and beautiful football, are not mutually exclusive.
I realize you're a big mourinho fanboy. That's what he usually does to his fanboys. They become obsessed with his false delusion of grandeur and false prophecies on how football should be played. Maybe because I trashed him you resorted to personal attacks.
If you read my post properly, you'd realize that I don't like barcelona's possession based game. Arsenal's is far different to that. Far more direct.
If you think football is as simple as putting the ball in the back if then net, then good for you. Perhaps we should have every team should play 9-0-1 formation, kick the ball up the field route 1 style, and hope it ends up in the back of the net. You should get into watching stoke.
If you want to see good football, and how I define it. Watch the sunderland city match. See how poyet transformed sunderland and watch how they were moving the ball about in the first half. Absolutely outstanding. That's good football.
Contrary to what you said, effective football, and beautiful football, are not mutually exclusive.
I realize you're a big mourinho fanboy. That's what he usually does to his fanboys. They become obsessed with his false delusion of grandeur and false prophecies on how football should be played. Maybe because I trashed him you resorted to personal attacks.
The football pantheon does an outstanding methodological and objective ranking of the top 50 sides in the history of european football. Even though I don't agree with arsenals ranking for many reasons, I thought I'd share the stand out ones.
4. Barcelona 2008-11
Points: 1280
As often as this Barcelona have transcended modern football, it is probably their performances against their oldest rivals that have best defined them.
Most impressively, the 5-0 win over Real Madrid in November 2010 illustrated the true potential of a team sport. It was a carnival of technique, a kaleidoscope of cohesion.
In the same season’s Champions League semi-final first leg, then, Leo Messi emphasised the individual excellence that comprises the team with his coruscating solo run. And that was complemented in the second leg by Pedro’s precise finish to another dizzying passing move.
Such performances, of course, have lead to talk of the greatest team of all time.
Certainly, it is highly possible that Pep Guardiola’s stewardship represents the highest possible peak of club football. As reflected by their play on the pitch, the club is perfectly synchronised with the former captain i charge. He represents the top of a seamless pyramid; an institution that’s almost organic rather than organised.
Because, at present, La Masia produces prototype players that perfectly fit the team’s approach. But then Guardiola has also enhanced that approach. He’s evolved their inherent passing philosophy with a vigorously implemented pressing game. In the rare periods of a match when Barcelona don’t have the ball, they work harder than any team to win it back. That stats show that no side in history has reclaimed the ball as often in the opposition half. And, obviously, no side in history has had such insane possession stats.
The end result, of course, is that the side play virtually every game on their own terms. And that has produced some extraordinary achievements. As well as winning Spain’s first ever treble, Guardiola’s Barcelona have won a three-in-a-row and two Champions Leagues in three short years. Along the way, they’ve also been Spain’s most emphatic league winners in terms of points per game and provided the division’s best ever defence.
And for those that say that was down to the poverty of the Spanish league, they’ve beaten every Champions League knock-out opponent except Chelsea by more than two goals.
But such dynamism comes with extraordinary demands. For a start, the pressure on the obsessive Guardiola. Then there’s the fact that their unique philosophy makes it difficult for players to adapt. That has left them with a necessarily short squad and – occasionally – an overstretched one. Indeed, it was arguably that, above all, which cost them the 2010 Champions League – a trophy that would undoubtedly have put them top of this list. Unlike their rivals though, they still have time to rectify it.
Trophies won: Champions League 2009, 2011; Spanish league 2009, 2010, 2011; Spanish cup 2009
Managers: Pep Guardiola
Best XI: Valdes; Dani Alves, Abidal, Pique, Puyol; Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta; Pedro, Messi, Eto’o
Points: 1280
As often as this Barcelona have transcended modern football, it is probably their performances against their oldest rivals that have best defined them.
Most impressively, the 5-0 win over Real Madrid in November 2010 illustrated the true potential of a team sport. It was a carnival of technique, a kaleidoscope of cohesion.
In the same season’s Champions League semi-final first leg, then, Leo Messi emphasised the individual excellence that comprises the team with his coruscating solo run. And that was complemented in the second leg by Pedro’s precise finish to another dizzying passing move.
Such performances, of course, have lead to talk of the greatest team of all time.
Certainly, it is highly possible that Pep Guardiola’s stewardship represents the highest possible peak of club football. As reflected by their play on the pitch, the club is perfectly synchronised with the former captain i charge. He represents the top of a seamless pyramid; an institution that’s almost organic rather than organised.
Because, at present, La Masia produces prototype players that perfectly fit the team’s approach. But then Guardiola has also enhanced that approach. He’s evolved their inherent passing philosophy with a vigorously implemented pressing game. In the rare periods of a match when Barcelona don’t have the ball, they work harder than any team to win it back. That stats show that no side in history has reclaimed the ball as often in the opposition half. And, obviously, no side in history has had such insane possession stats.
The end result, of course, is that the side play virtually every game on their own terms. And that has produced some extraordinary achievements. As well as winning Spain’s first ever treble, Guardiola’s Barcelona have won a three-in-a-row and two Champions Leagues in three short years. Along the way, they’ve also been Spain’s most emphatic league winners in terms of points per game and provided the division’s best ever defence.
And for those that say that was down to the poverty of the Spanish league, they’ve beaten every Champions League knock-out opponent except Chelsea by more than two goals.
But such dynamism comes with extraordinary demands. For a start, the pressure on the obsessive Guardiola. Then there’s the fact that their unique philosophy makes it difficult for players to adapt. That has left them with a necessarily short squad and – occasionally – an overstretched one. Indeed, it was arguably that, above all, which cost them the 2010 Champions League – a trophy that would undoubtedly have put them top of this list. Unlike their rivals though, they still have time to rectify it.
Trophies won: Champions League 2009, 2011; Spanish league 2009, 2010, 2011; Spanish cup 2009
Managers: Pep Guardiola
Best XI: Valdes; Dani Alves, Abidal, Pique, Puyol; Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta; Pedro, Messi, Eto’o
10. Torino 1945-49
Points: 1110
It’s not the tragedy of the Superga air disaster that brought this team such tributes. It was the scale of the triumphs. Torino won four successive titles in utterly emphatic manner, claiming still-unbroken scoring records. Their totals of 104 goals in 1946-47 and 125 in 1947-48 were astonishing even for the time.
One of the most memorable performances came in April 1946 when they were 6-0 up away to Roma after 19 minutes. Having eased off to win only 7-0, they were eventually applauded off the pitch by the home fans. It seemed only the beginning for a team that was going to win so much more. But, despite their premature demise, it is testament that all of their stats still stand up alongside the greatest of all time.
Trophies won: Serie A 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949
Managers: Luigi Ferrero, Mario Sperone, Egri Erbstein
Best XI: Bacigalupo, Ballarin, Maroso, Grezar, Rigamonti, Castigliano, Menti, Loik, Gabetto, Mazzola, Ossola
Points: 1110
It’s not the tragedy of the Superga air disaster that brought this team such tributes. It was the scale of the triumphs. Torino won four successive titles in utterly emphatic manner, claiming still-unbroken scoring records. Their totals of 104 goals in 1946-47 and 125 in 1947-48 were astonishing even for the time.
One of the most memorable performances came in April 1946 when they were 6-0 up away to Roma after 19 minutes. Having eased off to win only 7-0, they were eventually applauded off the pitch by the home fans. It seemed only the beginning for a team that was going to win so much more. But, despite their premature demise, it is testament that all of their stats still stand up alongside the greatest of all time.
Trophies won: Serie A 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949
Managers: Luigi Ferrero, Mario Sperone, Egri Erbstein
Best XI: Bacigalupo, Ballarin, Maroso, Grezar, Rigamonti, Castigliano, Menti, Loik, Gabetto, Mazzola, Ossola
11. Manchester United 2006-09
Points: 1095
The culmination of Alex Ferguson’s career at Manchester United. The manager drew on many of the disparate strands of his time at the club to arguably produce his greatest team.
First of all, Ferguson summoned his famed resolve to respond to Jose Mourinho’s raising of the bar. United unexpectedly dislodged Chelsea from the top of the Premier League with points hauls around the 90 mark.
To do that, his inherent sense of adventure had created the most prolific attacking trio Old Trafford had ever seen. The manner in which Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Louis Saha/Carlos Tevez interchanged and exchanged positions also placed Ferguson as a tactical pioneer for the first time in his career.
But, by then, the acumen he had tortuously acquired over so many seasons in Europe helped set one of England’s meanest defences.
It all added up to a finely balanced team and – with three consecutive league titles, a Champions League as well another final – the most concentrated period of success in United’s history.
Ultimately, their span was ended by Spain. Real Madrid lured Cristiano Ronaldo away while Pep Guardiola’s Barcelona lifted continental football to another level with the 2-0 win in Rome.
Trophies won: Champions League 2008; English league 2007, 2008, 2009; League Cup 2009; Champions League runners-up 2009
Managers: Alex Ferguson
Best XI: Van der Sar; Brown, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Carrick, Giggs; Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo
Points: 1095
The culmination of Alex Ferguson’s career at Manchester United. The manager drew on many of the disparate strands of his time at the club to arguably produce his greatest team.
First of all, Ferguson summoned his famed resolve to respond to Jose Mourinho’s raising of the bar. United unexpectedly dislodged Chelsea from the top of the Premier League with points hauls around the 90 mark.
To do that, his inherent sense of adventure had created the most prolific attacking trio Old Trafford had ever seen. The manner in which Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Louis Saha/Carlos Tevez interchanged and exchanged positions also placed Ferguson as a tactical pioneer for the first time in his career.
But, by then, the acumen he had tortuously acquired over so many seasons in Europe helped set one of England’s meanest defences.
It all added up to a finely balanced team and – with three consecutive league titles, a Champions League as well another final – the most concentrated period of success in United’s history.
Ultimately, their span was ended by Spain. Real Madrid lured Cristiano Ronaldo away while Pep Guardiola’s Barcelona lifted continental football to another level with the 2-0 win in Rome.
Trophies won: Champions League 2008; English league 2007, 2008, 2009; League Cup 2009; Champions League runners-up 2009
Managers: Alex Ferguson
Best XI: Van der Sar; Brown, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Carrick, Giggs; Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo
47. Arsenal 2001-05
Points: 780
Always irresistible, sometimes incisive and – for a season – invincible. Arsenal’s unbeaten 2003-04 campaign ensures their place in history, with the difficulty of that feat a perfect complement to the occasionally unbelievable angles of their passing. It was also Arsene Wenger’s undoubted career high-point. Appropriately though, it emphasised his extremes as a manager too. For a start, the team’s cycle was bookended by two very contrasting summers. In 2001, Wenger embarked on an untypical spending spree. In 2005, Patrick Vieira departed while complaining of a dearth of world-class signings.
In between, Arsenal’s exquisite football regularly reached that status – most of all Thierry Henry. They were particularly brilliant in the 2001-02 run-in that secured a double as well as the start of the 2002-03 campaign, with the team’s own climax coming in the 5-1 win at Inter Milan in the 2003-04 Champions League. That should have signalled a successful assault on the Champions League. Instead, it only highlights the greatest mark against them: that nucleus of players never got beyond the quarter-finals.
What’s worse, they were eliminated by a team they had routinely dismissed at home. Throughout the 2003-04 campaign, Arsenal had beaten Chelsea 2-1 three times across the league and FA Cup. At Highbury and in the competition that has always eluded Wenger, however, they were undone by that same score. And that failure to beat an English team again spoke of another major flaw: they never retained the title.
A divine team, but never a truly dominant one.
Trophies won: English league 2002, 2004; FA Cup 2002, 2003, 2005
Manager: Arsene Wenger
Best XI: Lehmann; Lauren, Cole, Campbell, Toure; Gilberto, Vieira, Ljungberg, Pires; Bergkamp, Henry
Points: 780
Always irresistible, sometimes incisive and – for a season – invincible. Arsenal’s unbeaten 2003-04 campaign ensures their place in history, with the difficulty of that feat a perfect complement to the occasionally unbelievable angles of their passing. It was also Arsene Wenger’s undoubted career high-point. Appropriately though, it emphasised his extremes as a manager too. For a start, the team’s cycle was bookended by two very contrasting summers. In 2001, Wenger embarked on an untypical spending spree. In 2005, Patrick Vieira departed while complaining of a dearth of world-class signings.
In between, Arsenal’s exquisite football regularly reached that status – most of all Thierry Henry. They were particularly brilliant in the 2001-02 run-in that secured a double as well as the start of the 2002-03 campaign, with the team’s own climax coming in the 5-1 win at Inter Milan in the 2003-04 Champions League. That should have signalled a successful assault on the Champions League. Instead, it only highlights the greatest mark against them: that nucleus of players never got beyond the quarter-finals.
What’s worse, they were eliminated by a team they had routinely dismissed at home. Throughout the 2003-04 campaign, Arsenal had beaten Chelsea 2-1 three times across the league and FA Cup. At Highbury and in the competition that has always eluded Wenger, however, they were undone by that same score. And that failure to beat an English team again spoke of another major flaw: they never retained the title.
A divine team, but never a truly dominant one.
Trophies won: English league 2002, 2004; FA Cup 2002, 2003, 2005
Manager: Arsene Wenger
Best XI: Lehmann; Lauren, Cole, Campbell, Toure; Gilberto, Vieira, Ljungberg, Pires; Bergkamp, Henry
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
Winners are grinners I'm afraid. As long as fans don't have to watch 10 deep in the box and an 0-0 result then most winning fans are going to argue that their team is playing beautiful football. Once upon a time banging it deep and having Couch climb above the pack was what the English fans wanted.
Having said that I'll be happy if the All Whites crowd the line in Mexico and deny them a home goal in the first leg this weekend
Having said that I'll be happy if the All Whites crowd the line in Mexico and deny them a home goal in the first leg this weekend
brimz
Bluelighter
fukin
proper
Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
Blatant diving in the penalty area should be punished with a red card, a dodgy penalty can influence the result of a game, even of whole tournaments, cheating that leads to penalties or red cards being awarded should be punished by sending off the culprit.
In addition to that, I think if referees have been conned, retrospective action should be undertaken. Referees are only human beings, and they're bound to make some mistakes.
What I'd love to see, which probably will never happen, is if a penalty was decisive in a game, such as the west brom game, to re award the points to the team who's been cheated out of a result.
What I'd love to see, which probably will never happen, is if a penalty was decisive in a game, such as the west brom game, to re award the points to the team who's been cheated out of a result.
Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
That would be ideal, unlikely it will ever happen though.
knock
Bluelighter
Mental Kenny
Bluelighter
Didn't they get a mention in the Ken Loach film "Looking for Eric"? Good idea, to create a supporters owned club in protest over the Glazer take-over.