The Main 5-MAPB Thread

[garchi]

Hey everybody,

since I've gone through my first gram of this substance, I wanted to report my experiences (only brief, no complete trip reports). My background with empathogens includes MDMA, methylone, mephedrone, 4-FA and 5-/6-APB.

My first experience were 150 mg - 200 mg 5-MAPB after 2 - 2.5 L beer, maybe not the brightest idea. I got impatient after insufflating the first 100 mg and quickly redosed 50 mg after a few minutes. I got a really intense, vibrating euphoria emenating through my body, maybe even comparable to that of mephedrone. It was an all around nice evening, I danced a bit with a sober buddy (at least in terms of 5-MAPB) which was nice but not overly fulfilling since the club was pretty empty. Most memories from that evening are pretty blurry due to the alcohol. We've ended the night with chilling and indulging in nitrous which was really nice. Although when I stopped using the nitrous, I quickly became very naseous and felt pretty horrible, fortunately sleeping was able to cure this.

The second experience happened two days ago. My flat mate/friend and I each insufflated 400 mg 5-MAPB over the course of approximately 10 hours, starting with 150 mg. On the one hand, the euphoria was not as intense (still fucking amazing) as the first time (tolerance should not be a problem) and not accompanied by the same kind of body load, on the other hand the empathy really went through the roof and it was an all around wonderful experience.

Of course the side effects were relatively pronounced at the end of night due to the very high dose. Fortunately this was mostly limited to the funny, yet totally weird mindset of a high-dose upper/empathogen dementia and really intense bruxism which left jaw pain for the days after. Surprisingly the strain on the cardiovascular system seemed relatively low. The empathatic/maniac mindset was still present after 6 hours of sleep (especially in my friend for which this was the first empathogen and one of the first drug experiences ever) and parts of it still last today. There was some sentimentality present today, but the positive experiences greatly outweigh this.

I really enjoyed this drug and it pretty much became my favorite of all empathogens. Unfortunately I've only done MDMA (pure) 2 times, but from what I remember, 5-MAPB matches MDMA pretty closely. To me it seems like the perfect mix of methylone (great empathy) and mephedrone (great euphoria) without it being as crushingly fiendish as mephedrone was.

 

[tasha_yar]

Wondering if 5-MAPB would combine well or at all with 6-APDB and/or 4-FA, or whether that would be akin to imbibing three kinds of liquor - three different means to the same end that result in feeling poorly. I'm wary of the shitty comedown/brain zaps/bawling weeping emotional hell based on posts here, though elsewhere people describe the comedown as MDMA-esque.

 

[Si Dread]

I guess if you're inclined to huge binges &/or massive doses of MDMA & suffer comedowns that take a week to appear & utterly debilitate you for another week, & you then suffer brain zaps for a year... then yeah, fair enough, it would be quite logical to compare the after-effects of MDMA to those of 5-mapb...

 

[bloodshed344]

Basically some people get much worse and longer lasting after-effects than others. Si Ingwe has posted fervently about this ever since 5-mapb fucked his brain up back in February I think. Just seeing how many times he has posted about it and his post just the other day in the Drugs in the Media forum has made me realize that really was a bad thing to happen to him. It's great so many people can take this with no after-effects, but the fact some people get extreme after-effects and the only way to know if you do is to take the drug and risk the after-effects means no one should take this drug unless they do not care about after-effects!

Look at Si Ingwe's post history and I doubt you'll ever have thoughts of taking 5-MAPB again. Especially as there are other, very chemically similar, drugs that do the same thing and yet have very low incidence of these type of after-effects.

Unless Si Ingwe and others (there are others) are liars, the only responsible way to try this drug is not at all. Do not try this drug if you have never tried it before. If you have done chemicals similar to this one, that has no bearing... stick to those chemicals.

 

[SilentRoller]

^^+1. I too have experienced an APB Crisis which I have only just fully recovered from around now (nearly 6 months on!). I suffered the same fate as Si Ingwe [albeit less severe]. For the record, my experience was with 6-APB....

PLEASE DO NOT FUCK WITH THIS COMPOUND/ANY OF THE APB ANALOGUES!

 

[Si Dread]

High doses of MDMA are also implicated, along with 6-apb, in Silents ABzC (my abbreviation for Acute Brain zaps Crisis!) aren't they mate..?

Look at Si Ingwe's post history and I doubt you'll ever have thoughts of taking 5-MAPB again. Especially as there are other, very chemically similar, drugs that do the same thing and yet have very low incidence of these type of after-effects.

Unless Si Ingwe and others (there are others) are liars, the only responsible way to try this drug is not at all. Do not try this drug if you have never tried it before. If you have done chemicals similar to this one, that has no bearing... stick to those chemicals.

I'm just gonna quote this any time someone comes on here digging 5-mapb

My Zaps still reappear periodically, primarilly associated with Stim or Benzo use. Both these habits are coming under greater & greater control & are becoming less & less frequent. The Zaps are much less common & much less severe. It's been a long time since January though!

 

[SilentRoller]

True Si, my fatal combo was MDMA & 6-APB (each on separate days). However, the point still stands in that I would be extremely cautious of ANY of the APB analogues. I have used MDMA since the unfortunate incident which thankfully has not made the condition any worse, so I'm putting the blame on APB here.

This is for anyone who may suffer the same fate - My zaps/zings are gone now, and MDMA use (even in high doses) has not bought them back. However, this is not an invitation to start smashing MDMA, and I would encourage anyone who is experiencing brain-zaps of any sort to space out their usage of stims by 3 months at the minimum. The zaps will go, but its a REALLY slow process, where that final 2% of recovery can take months and months.

 

[Transform]

To offer an alternative opinion, having only used these compounds in moderation I have found them to be nothing but pleasant. The 5/6-APB combination is one of my favourites.

It seems to me more like the responsible way to use these is no more than once a month. Using serotonin releasers including these more often than that is asking for trouble.

 

[Si Dread]

If you had been through ten minutes of what I went through for 3 days & 3 nights, you wouldn't be saying that Trans... I'm not here trying to express a differing veiw-point to those who enjoy 5-mapb, I'm trying to get EVERYBODY to stay away from it. I'm warning people that this stuff can be very unhealthy. Don't come in a contradict that mate, coz you have not been though what I have been though! You are undermining a very fucking important message. It is not about offering a balanced argument, it's about putting people off risking the use of a drug that's clearly not worth the risk.

I only made a couple of very small mistakes, & I am a clever guy who doesn;t make many. I'm still paying for this one! Advocating the use of this drug under ANY circumstances stands against Harm Reduction in my opinion, it is not offering an alternative viewpoint it is advocating a dangerous drug!

In reply to SR -
Okay, I get a nice little selection symptoms other than Brain Zaps on the odd occasion when I slip up & take a stim. These include disrupted sleep, depression, anxiety, light-headedness, paranoia, social-phobia & these can last up to a fortnight after a minor session. So I'm now suffering a much longer, much more severe comedown as well as Brain Zaps.

When you had high dose MDMA recently, even if you avoided Brain Zaps, it wouldn't be fair to say that you had a nice, short, easy comedown either, would it SR? You had some tough days a good while after the sesh & I reckon the severity of the comedown is related to the APB serotonergic damaged from months back.

If I'm still getting even the ocassional zap in January, a year later, I'm going to have to give serious consideration to, if not leaving the scene altogther, certainly taking at least 6 months off. Six months off PROPERLY!

 

[Folley]

To offer an alternative opinion, having only used these compounds in moderation I have found them to be nothing but pleasant. The 5/6-APB combination is one of my favourites.

It seems to me more like the responsible way to use these is no more than once a month. Using serotonin releasers including these more often than that is asking for trouble.

Have you tried MAPB? There seems to be something funky in particular with this compound. 5/6-APB seem to be relatively safe, about on par with MDMA. Although they are said to be less toxic than MDMA their longer duration likely causes more damage to the receptors.


I don't trust 6-ADPB and a lot of those other analogues though.. MAPB especially. I've always said that MDxx/APB analogues have a high potential for danger

 

[SilentRoller]

it wouldn't be fair to say that you had a nice, short, easy comedown either, would it SR?

Very true! For anyone who is on the fence about this - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Consider the points we are making here, and ask yourself is x-APB really worth the risk? Before my APB crisis, I had one experience a year prior with a 5/6apb pellet. Whilst I suffered no ill effects the following weeks, the day after was pretty grim (major dehydration and nausea), coupled with the fact that the experience felt horrible and dirty towards the end. Sure APB may of been the best thing to come out of the RC scene since meph, but I would also argue its been one of the most problematic....

 

[psy997]

Very true! For anyone who is on the fence about this - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Consider the points we are making here, and ask yourself is x-APB really worth the risk? Before my APB crisis, I had one experience a year prior with a 5/6apb pellet. Whilst I suffered no ill effects the following weeks, the day after was pretty grim (major dehydration and nausea), coupled with the fact that the experience felt horrible and dirty towards the end. Sure APB may of been the best thing to come out of the RC scene since meph, but I would also argue its been one of the most problematic....

I've had no problems with 6-apb, and from what I've read, have seen no reason why it would be worse than MDMA.

I think what we're seeing here are very uncommon adverse reactions, which look much more common than they are with the smaller amount of experiences compared to MDMA.

I'm sorry, I just think you guys are pulling the panic card without anything credible to stand on.

 

[SilentRoller]

I'm sorry, I just think you guys are pulling the panic card without anything credible to stand on

Oh really? Well I'm sure the folks over at UKCR would be glad to hear from you....Considering they have an ENTIRE thread dedicated to 5-MAPB side effects such as these, the issue is hardly uncommon. Just because we are being negative towards your possible drug of choice, don't come in here and tell us our accounts aren't credible!

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Si Ingwe...best wishes from Western Australia...
Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement you gave me a few months back. Yes, I took this Chem several days in a row...I was stupid like this. Never have I suffered such a special sickness. The nasty effects lasted maybe 14 days. What a disgusting hang-over, with all kinds of messed up shit going on in my mind...nightmares & vivid dreaming...crying like a baby...weird feeling I have no words to describe them...what a horror show...never again.
I can not express very well how much your words of encouragement & understanding meant to me during that time. I'm very grateful.
It's good to see you too have recovered.
Best wishes.

Sounds like serotonin syndrome very nasty! When the first batches of 6 apb hit the RC vendors sites some had PMAA not 6 apb in the "benzofury" capsuals etc. This put quite a few people in hospital and it's possible quite a few negative experiences early on in the distribution of apb's it was because of PMAA and has given it a bit more negative press than it warrants.

 

[Si Dread]

I'm going to need some citation about that, I have not heard that any APB has been found to contain PMMA. Please feel free to back that up with any evidence you might have

I've had no problems with 6-apb, and from what I've read, have seen no reason why it would be worse than MDMA.

I can't comment other than to say that Silent Roller had very similar problems to that which I suffered after using 5-mapb. I have not used 6-apb other than to allergy test it.

I think what we're seeing here are very uncommon adverse reactions, which look much more common than they are with the smaller amount of experiences compared to MDMA.

Sadly, my experience with 5-mapb & those of many other users suggest that in fact this reaction, albeit rarely as severe as my own, is far from uncommon!

I'm sorry, I just think you guys are pulling the panic card without anything credible to stand on.

Yeah, coz if you look at my almost 12 years of posting history at BL, you'll find me panicking over just about every dodgy new drug that's ever appeared on the market. With all due respect, fucking rubbish! If two & a half decades of experience doesn't make my view "credible", I really have no idea what I could possibly do to appear "credible" to you!

I am not bitter & twisted about what happened! Despite those decades of experience with recreational drugs I can still count the fuck ups without having to use more than 3 fingers -

1) I was pumped full of ketamine in ICU to combat an asthma attack & streptococcal pnuemonia caused by an inadequately cleaned intubator. I lost my shit on waking from a week unconcious & attacked 5 orderlies & a lovely Kiwi nurse & once I left hospital I spent 3 months hallucinating! I recoverd completely except my bladder has never been quite the same Lol

2) I got addicted to mephedrone when it was legal in early 2010, fought the addiction & recovered.

3) The 5-mapb disaster from which I have yet to completely recover.

Note how every single drugs problem I've had was with compounds that were legal at the time or being used lawfully, such as with the Ket.

Given that I have had so few problems with drugs, I can assure you, baseless panic is the least likely of my reactions!

 

[electrodevo]

I think what we're seeing here are very uncommon adverse reactions, which look much more common than they are with the smaller amount of experiences compared to MDMA.

"Brain zaps" are a common withdrawal symptom with *any* drug that downregulates serotonin receptors. That *includes* MDMA as well as SSRIs / SNRIs (plus, obviously, the APBs).

In the SSRI / SNRI class, certain chemicals *are* more susceptible to "brain zap" type withdrawals than others. I don't think the reason is completely understood at this time, unfortunately.

Based on anecdoctal reports (which is all we have with RCs), I *do* believe that 5-MAPB is more susceptible to this side effect than other chemicals. I believe that the APBs and APBDs are on par with MDMA/MDA. However, this is "my opinion" and completely unscientific. As with the SSRIs, it will probably affect some people and not others. In other words, many people will take 5-MAPB and be just fine.

With SSRIs / SNRIs, the only strategy that seems to have been identified is tapering. Something that is probably not possible with the triple releasers.

 

[Vurtual]

I've vaguely followed you guys talking about the issue with 5-mapb, and i think the problem you had may be due to dosing over multiple days (as far as i can remember, Si Ingwe dosed over a few days).

I've had similar issues (not as bad) but only when i extended my dosing over more than 24-36 hours, and/or came down a bit before a next dose. I think apbs are different to mdma in that the effects and after effects are much longer-lasting - if i dose, then redose too long after the first i get these issues (mdma is more forgiving on this score, but will do the same if extended too long).

Personally, i limit myself to 1 or 2 redoses over 24-36 hours, and NEVER come down, sleep and redose again the next day (or for a minimum of a week after). Following this rule i've never had a heavy midweek comedown since (still get a bit down if i do two redoses, but only mildly)

What do you think?

 

[Si Dread]

I find that perfectly plausible. I'm just not going to advocate any use of this drug while other options exist.

 

[Vurtual]

But there's still the option of only taking one dose, and not touching it for a month (like some people can manage). imo it doesn't warrant saying never take this; just saying "maybe don't take this, but if you do, don't redose after you come down/the next day" (and there aren't that many other options really)

To be sure i much prefer 6-apb to mapb (mainly because of longer duration), but it is pretty nice used right.

 

[Folley]

"Brain zaps" are a common withdrawal symptom with *any* drug that downregulates serotonin receptors. That *includes* MDMA as well as SSRIs / SNRIs (plus, obviously, the APBs).

In the SSRI / SNRI class, certain chemicals *are* more susceptible to "brain zap" type withdrawals than others. I don't think the reason is completely understood at this time, unfortunately.

Based on anecdoctal reports (which is all we have with RCs), I *do* believe that 5-MAPB is more susceptible to this side effect than other chemicals. I believe that the APBs and APBDs are on par with MDMA/MDA. However, this is "my opinion" and completely unscientific. As with the SSRIs, it will probably affect some people and not others. In other words, many people will take 5-MAPB and be just fine.

With SSRIs / SNRIs, the only strategy that seems to have been identified is tapering. Something that is probably not possible with the triple releasers.

I don't think they can be called withdrawals, considering you'd have to take the drug for a LONG time for your body to adapt to it in that way. I've always figured "Brain Zaps" were a more direct rewiring of receptors. Sometimes it can be good, although if it's directly after drug abuse it most likely isn't..