Tough question (about psychedelic self-medication)

[pmoseman]

OK. So I will not involve myself in this discussion, regardless, other than to clarify when asked to. I try not to endorse use. I only want to tap your knowledge, experiences, information. I encourage linking to other similar threads/boards with more robust/lengthy discussions in them.
MODs. I am not worried about anyone voicing an honest personal opinion about me on here. So feel free to take your shots (see: masochism).

So, here is the topic:

Q: Is it a valid argument that people taking psychedelics are doing it to self medicate?

Points to consider:
0. Other drugs can be get mentioned, but please do so for comparison or to refer back to a psychedelic substance.
1. Is there enough data available for average users to be self-medicating with psychedelics.
2. Define self medicate. Is it a safety issue. Full studies encouraged.
3. Is the drug industry denied from using psychedelics that have no alternatives. Better, worse, or equal. What are the alternatives. (Separate from 4 & 5)
4. Is the pharmaceutical industry worth a damn.
5. Can "alternative medicines" do the same job. What side-effects are known/possible (the "job" being dissolved ego, lighter moods, ninja skills, whatever).

I know this is a big topic and at the heart of the community, so that is why I refrain myself from making any comments

 

[Yeetbeat]

I do it because I enjoy it, though it does have therapeutic benefits.

 

[missmeyet?]

I won't take my "shots" at you personally because I think it would be inapropriate. We had this discussion in another thread with you and you never backed up your opinions (that you said were facts).

So no, everyone does not take drugs because they are self medicating because they have mental illness or psych issues. And yes, a lot of people who have mental illness, in fact a majority of them, do self medicate with drugs. But there is a difference in these two statements.

 

[SeenSoFar]

I won't take my "shots" at you personally because I think it would be inapropriate. We had this discussion in another thread with you and you never backed up your opinions (that you said were facts).

So no, everyone does not take drugs because they are self medicating because they have mental illness or psych issues. And yes, a lot of people who have mental illness, in fact a majority of them, do self medicate with drugs. But there is a difference in these two statements.

Well said. I think you can sum that up in a simple statement:

Many people with mental illness who use psychedelics (as well as other substances) are doing so because in their mind they are getting some therapeutic benefit from it, but not all (far from all) people who use psychedelics are doing so medicate an underlying condition.

I have always had a problem with the term 'self-medicate,' although its use is appropriate in some circumstances. I find the term carries negative connotations, when in fact many people who 'self-medicate' are achieving incredibly positive results. Just because someone has found a solution to their problem without being told as much by someone licensed to practice medicine does not mean that said solution is inferior to or carries unacceptable risks compared to what a physician might recommend.

That all being said, here are my opinions on the question at hand. I don't have any mental illness that requires medicating, and I don't know of anyone personally who has used psychedelics to that end, but I have heard of it. It has always been a puzzling thing to me, since in my experience, most serious mental illnesses get a whole lot worse when you throw psychedelics into the mix.

 

[Sherminator2]

Some people definitely do, but I wouldn't say the average user takes psychedelics to self medicate. Most people who use psychs are just curious, want to party/have a good time, or to have a spiritual experience. While some people might use ketamine or LSD for depression or something, and these drugs definitely have many medical benefits when used in a proper clinical setting, this is far from the most common reason people take psychedelics. I would say other types of drugs like cannabis (insomnia, pain, anxiety, depression, nausea), opiates (pain, depression, anxiety), benzodiazapines (insomnia, anxiety) or stimulants (ADD, weight loss) are much more commonly used for self medication.

 

[sekio]

Q: Is it a valid argument that all people taking psychedelics are doing it to self medicate?
No. Some people take psychedelics because they are a novel experience. Some people take them to assist in achieving particular states of mind, like concentration or meditation. Some people take them in a social context.

Q: Is it a valid argument that some people taking psychedelics are doing it to self medicate?
Yes. It's not unheard of, as stated before, for people to use ketamine or LSD (or, for instance AMT) as adjuncts to e.g. therapy.

Q: Is the average user self-medicating with psychedelics?
I would say no, the average psychedelic user is either using it as a tool (e.g. meditation aid, non-linear-thinking activator) or for recreational purposes.

Q. Define self medicate.
Taking a drug to fix a percieved medical condition or defect.

Q. Is the drug industry denied from using psychedelics that have no alternatives. Better, worse, or equal.
Of course. See: DEA Schedule I drugs.

Q. Is the pharmaceutical industry worth a damn.
I like having painkillers, stimulants, sedatives, anti-nauseants, antibiotics and vaccines! Don't you?

Q. Can "alternative medicines" do the same job. What side-effects are known/possible (the "job" being dissolved ego, lighter moods, ninja skills, whatever).
It's entirely possible to achieve transcendent states similar to those attained on psychedelics. Some, however, would argue that psychedelics are what resemble true meditative states, though. Psychedelics are certainly one of the more rapid ways of altering your psyche for a while, though.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I take them for shits and giggles. And the awesome sex involved.

I know plenty (probably around 100) psychonauts and I doubt a single person uses them to self medicate. In fact I would probably advise against it if they told me they did.

 

[webbykevin]

i take them because it's naughty

 

[Anon0631]

Finally an interesting thread on PD. At least more interesting than the usual "I have a pocket full of drugs, what order shall I take them in" and "is the LSD I bought really an NBOMe/I'm about to trip for the first time, shall I take 900μg of LSD".

Yes. I know it's contrary but yes. Taking psychedelics is self-medication in the sense that the class has considerable medical value and we administer them ourselves.

If I have cancer, there's a state regulated mechanism for the administration of chemotherapy and if I want to avoid pregnancy, there's a state regulated mechanism for the administration of contraceptives. So why isn't the same true for the administration of psychedelics for those suffering from existential questions (these don't have to be negative in nature). This structure exists in shamanic cultures but not in the contemporary west.

We are forced into a position of self-medication because of a vacuum in state supplied resources.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't think so, I think the average user takes psychedelics with experimental and exploratory motivations, that is to say: that motivation from my perspective has the highest prevalence. Eagerness to learn about the mysteries of the heart, the mind and the soul...
Consider every trip report you ever read, were most people trying to mend their hearts, minds and souls? Come on... no most were just exploring or navigating them. But that is not to say therapy doesn't happen!

Therapeutic use may not be appropriate without either experience or a guide and it would often come a bit or a lot later, and for what I think is a minority (although not an overwhelmingly small minority)
Seems pointless to argue about whether it is 60/40 or 40/60 though. If you are still interested in numbers you might want to formulate a poll to add to the thread. I would then also recommend a TT change, thread titles that are non-descriptive might seduce people to check it out but I think they should provide transparency.

Defining self-medication is hard, if you want to be very technical about it then all drug use could be called self-medication because drugs have effects and people seek those effects to fulfill a purpose, then again I think that is wrong semantically and I will tell you why. It doesn't feel right to me to call a role as facilitator of recreational effects 'self-medicating' for example, the reason is: because there is no ailment involved... but experimenting and exploring comes a bit closer to self-medicating because it addresses deep yearnings people have. The source of those yearnings can be that people feel like they are missing something or looking for answers or something else, these feelings of some insufficiency could be explained as something those people perceive to be wrong, so closer to an ailment. But still not a real illness.

People who really have complaints and symptoms and use psychedelics therapeutically for that are in my opinion working in another (third?) category, that is probably not the biggest. And of course we have to qualify each psychedelic session because one person can use a psychedelic with one type of intention one day and another type of intention the next, or even mixed intentions to further complicate matters.

Psychedelics augment mental processes quite indifferently and that makes them pretty different from conventional medications and it is the reason why experience or guidance is needed. With most pharmaceuticals, while not everyone may react the same, the effects are much more consistent and I think pharms can be helpful if you have narrowed down psychiatric symtoms to be caused by overactivity or underactivity of certain neurotransmitters. For depression which is of course a major complaint or disorder, it is not always easy to narrow it down like that. Some other things may be more straight-forward.

If I had to venture a guess I would say 25-50% is recreational, 25-50% is exploratory and experimental, amounting to 75% however distributed... and 25% therapeutic intentions.

 

[Anon0631]

I would argue that medication isn't (shouldn't be?) just about fixing things. It also is/should be about improving that which isn't pathological. Examples include hormonal contraception, the growing use of Modafinil amongst CEO's, vitamin supplements, etc.

The extension of this argument is that much illicit drug use is the result of societal insistence that medicine should be only be used to bring us to a state of normality rather than to enhance us to a state of superiority. People are very unhappy about this and that leads to underground interest in steroids/nootropics/stimulants and other functional drugs.

I would include psychedelics in the category of functional drugs as they act as tools for those curious in exploring the existential/metaphysical aspects of their being. It's a functional role that religion used to fulfil before we disproved it's core concepts via evidence based scientific enquiry.

 

[flat-line]

I really don't believe the majority of psychedelic users use psychedelics to “self medicate”.

The term “self medicate” usually refers to someone with emotional and psychological problems using chemicals to numb and suppress the problems.
People in western society don't “self medicate” to fix or improve problems. Our medicine and medical culture/industry is about “treating” symptoms, numbing, suppressing pain and discomfort.

Psychedelics can bring problems to the surface which is counter productive if you are “self medicating”/running away from them and trying to suppress them.

Most of the psychedelic users I have know use psychedelics for self exploration, pleasure, adventure, fun, self improvement.
I do hear people from time to time do psychedelics to look deeper and face a emotional or psychological problem which could be defined as “self medicate” but it most always not. Usually in our culture self exploration is defined as “self exploration” or “self improvement” it can be found in the wacky new age section on the other side of the library from western medicine.