Benzos Etizolam tolerance/withdrawals

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I finally got my etiz today, and I was wondering if the tolerance buildup is similar to other benzos, and I've heard a few people say that it never gave them WD's after a month of daily therapeutic use, not recreational.
I'm only planning on using a mg or two a few times a week if my mind is racing when I go to bed, most days I'm fine but some days I only get 3 hours sleep because of this, and obviously no use on weekends.
Would this cause a rise and tolerance and eventually lead to possible WD's?

EDIT: as well could a dose like this potentially lead to rebound insomnia? I won't use more than 3 times a week most likely

 

[dopemegently]

I'm sure etiz users with more experience than myself will post here to advise you. Your careful approach will def help you avoid dependence, especialy as you're using them for therapeutic reasons. I'm more into pyraz myself (I don't like the sedation of etiz), and am entering my fifth day of use. I'm using the last of my stash today, and have no plans to order more. I also do not want a benzo addiction, but these types of drugs can be quite "moreish"- one day easily turns into 2, then 3, then 4.

You described physical dependence, which can take weeks to happen, but with benzo's its the psychological dependence that can catch you out; the sense of calm they give you can be pretty intoxicating IME.

Have you looked into less addictive drugs for your purposes, ones you can take every night? It sounds like you're having sleep problems, and there are many other solutions available, not to mention less risky and expensive ones. Before being prescribed mirtazipine,
(And this is probably terrible advice), a slug of vodka would stop those racing thoughts; phenibut was also excellent for this (although also addictive). There are also many effective herbal preparations on the market, not to mention dipenhydramine.-based sleep aids.

Btw etizolam makes me sleep far deeper than usual, making waking up at my usual time difficult. (And this is at low 1mg doses. remember: etizolam is 10× the strength of diazepam, I believe.

 

[sekio]

Yes, etizolam produces dependence and tolerance just like every other benzo.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

IME tolerance seems to build at a much slower rate compared to traditional benzos. I have been dependent on etiz for about six months and my tolerance seems to be about the same as when I first started. During this time I've been taking two 2mgs doses daily and 1mg still greatly reduces my anxiety and causes moderate relaxation while 2mgs leaves me fairly intoxicated

 

[bunge]

While ive had a recent increase in tolerence to etiz (making my nightime dose 2.5mg, from 2mg), the tolerence issues are alot less then with the classic benzos or z-drugs.
I follow a dosing plan of 4-5 days on and 7-9 days off (although I sometimes do use zopiclone infrequently during my 'off' period).
The upshot is that ive never experienced anything other then slight restlessness and 1-2 nights of mild insomnia directly after stopping but I suffer insomnia myself anyway.
I also use 150mg daily of pregabalin, except for the days im using etizolam, which may make up some of the shortfall caused by the etizolam cescession.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I'm sure etiz users with more experience than myself will post here to advise you. Your careful approach will def help you avoid dependence, especialy as you're using them for therapeutic reasons. I'm more into pyraz myself (I don't like the sedation of etiz), and am entering my fifth day of use. I'm using the last of my stash today, and have no plans to order more. I also do not want a benzo addiction, but these types of drugs can be quite "moreish"- one day easily turns into 2, then 3, then 4.

You described physical dependence, which can take weeks to happen, but with benzo's its the psychological dependence that can catch you out; the sense of calm they give you can be pretty intoxicating IME.

Have you looked into less addictive drugs for your purposes, ones you can take every night? It sounds like you're having sleep problems, and there are many other solutions available, not to mention less risky and expensive ones. Before being prescribed mirtazipine,
(And this is probably terrible advice), a slug of vodka would stop those racing thoughts; phenibut was also excellent for this (although also addictive). There are also many effective herbal preparations on the market, not to mention dipenhydramine.-based sleep aids.

Btw etizolam makes me sleep far deeper than usual, making waking up at my usual time difficult. (And this is at low 1mg doses. remember: etizolam is 10× the strength of diazepam, I believe.

I have't tried those specifically but I've tried others to no avail, my mom has been on zopiclone for 5 years nightly and she takes two to knock her out, and once I couldn't sleep and she gave me two and absolutely nothing, I was up for four hours until I went to bad.
Alcohol is also a no because it actually prevents me from getting a good sleep, I usually wake up for frequently in the middle of the night.
I never found benzos to be particularly addicting, I'm generally pretty calm to begin with so I took a mg during the day to see if it made a difference and I felt it, but it wasn't a high I would like to be all day, plus I never noticed anxiolytic properties.
For me with occasional insomnia the best anxiolytic is sleep

 

[bunge]

My anxiety works in a similar fashion, if I sleep well then my anxiety is lower.
As for the zopiclone not working....everyone I know personally who has tried it said it was effective but they arent people with a massive benzo tolerence so that could be a factor.
Also the z-drugs are a strange class of chemicals as they cause quite different effectsin different people. Alot of people are knocked out cold by them but zopiclone has never made me all that tired on its own, just super relaxed and quite euphoric.
Mirtazepine however is king for sleep! 15mg (with no tol) will put you to sleep for 12hrs easily, its sedation comes in the main from its potent anti-histamine action but its alot smoother and anxiolytic then traditional anti-histamines (imo).

 

[QUARE]

I have used Etizolam for 2 months without any sign of withdrawal but I was not abusing, 0.5 to 1mg each night. Though, not because it didnt happened to me it doesnt mean it wont happen to you, just be careful.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

My anxiety works in a similar fashion, if I sleep well then my anxiety is lower.
As for the zopiclone not working....everyone I know personally who has tried it said it was effective but they arent people with a massive benzo tolerence so that could be a factor.
Also the z-drugs are a strange class of chemicals as they cause quite different effectsin different people. Alot of people are knocked out cold by them but zopiclone has never made me all that tired on its own, just super relaxed and quite euphoric.
Mirtazepine however is king for sleep! 15mg (with no tol) will put you to sleep for 12hrs easily, its sedation comes in the main from its potent anti-histamine action but its alot smoother and anxiolytic then traditional anti-histamines (imo).

That is definitely too long to be put to sleep haha, I function best on 7.5-8 hours sleep.
Did your mirtazepine leave you feeling groggy and sedated the morning/day after you use it?
And when I tried zopiclone I hadn't even touched a benzo yet

 

[Snake_Eyes]

That is definitely too long to be put to sleep haha, I function best on 7.5-8 hours sleep.
Did your mirtazepine leave you feeling groggy and sedated the morning/day after you use it?
And when I tried zopiclone I hadn't even touched a benzo yet

For me the first 2 days on 15mg mirtazapine was hell. The first night I slept about 7 hours and woke up groggy as hell that lasted ALL day. When I got off work I came home and slept about 3.5 hours, woke up, ate and took a shower and watched a little tv before taking another mirtazapine which knocked me out within an hour. I ended up sleeping about 9 hours that night. The next day once again I was so out of it that I went and talked to my p-doctor and reduced the dose to 7.5mg. At this dose I was still a little groggy but was still able to function which I stayed at for about 4 days before going back up to 15mg and eventually 30mg.

 

[dopemegently]

I'm surprised it's making people so groggy. I find it a powerful sedative, and I sleep fairly deeply on it, but when I wake up, I feel naturaly alert and not groggy at all. I think your body just needs to develop a tolerance to mirt, myself. (I'm on 30mgs,and it's been a lifesaver for both my depression and my sleep problems, although a big downside is it's powerful appetite- enhancing properties). And bunge, I had absolutely no idea mirt was an anti-histamine! I've always felt drugs like dph far from sedative in nature; they always made me edgy and nervous for some reason, so this is news to me.

I would never use mirt at the start of the day, it would be too sedating to me; for me, it's a bedtime thing.

OP I really think phenibut could be worth checking out; it sounds like your restlessness at bed time is an anxiety thing, and phenibut is great for that, although not really a sedative. (It will stop those racing thoughts). Be warned: tolerance kicks in rapidly; I now take around 7 grams. (I believe an sleeping dose would be around 2000mgs, anti-anxiety dose would be far less.

Like many in this post, I find mirtazipine to be an excellent sleep-aid, and possibly your best bet.

 

[bunge]

Yeah mirtazapine is a potent antagonist at the H1 receptor, I believe this attributes to its anti-emetic properties and thus the weightgain. The anti-psychotics like seroquel cause their sedation and weightgain through the same MOA, just to a much greater degree.
The 'hangover' feeling is quite apparent at first (although caffeine or other stim of choice does dispell it) but after a couple of weeks it will fade and the sleep you get will feel deeper and more refreshing then it would on any benzodiazepine or psuedo-benzo.

 

[dopemegently]

Oh yeah, OP I forgot to mention, large amounts of booze ie getting drunk will really fuck with your REM sleep; you won't get down into a restful sleep while drunk, it's no surprise you would wake through the night. My intention was just to take a "nightcap"- before mirt, I'd take a decent slug of hard booze, and that would do the trick for me.

Other drugs that have worked for me: methacarbamol, amitryptaline, valerian, kava (surprisingly). I tried a quarter of a mates anti-psychotic pill (I forget the name), and it sent me into full blown unconsciousness for 16 hours. Not good.
As many posters have mentioned, mirtazipine really is a great sleep aid if your Dr will give it to you, though it's main function is an AD.

 

[bunge]

I should think most doctors would be happier prescribing mirtazapine rather then any of the benzos because mirtazapine is non-addictive and takes longer to build a tolerence to then the benzos.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Does etizolam cause grogginess the next day or mess with your REM sleep? Also what benzo would u compare etizolam too even ? I know..i know... all drugs are different blah blah but im sure SOME comparison can be made even though its a thienodiazapene and not a benzo. Is it short acting and strong like xanax, more drawn out like klonopin, relaxing and mellow like diazepam? I have some in route and am wondering what to expect

 

[QUARE]

Grogginess is relative to each individual. Its half-life is about 3,5h and it have an active metabolite that have an half-life of 8h. So its a short/intermediate duration benzo-like drug. Etizolam is more effective for anxiety than anything else IME.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

I'm surprised it's making people so groggy. I find it a powerful sedative, and I sleep fairly deeply on it, but when I wake up, I feel naturaly alert and not groggy at all. I think your body just needs to develop a tolerance to mirt, myself. (I'm on 30mgs,and it's been a lifesaver for both my depression and my sleep problems, although a big downside is it's powerful appetite- enhancing properties). And bunge, I had absolutely no idea mirt was an anti-histamine! I've always felt drugs like dph far from sedative in nature; they always made me edgy and nervous for some reason, so this is news to me.

I would never use mirt at the start of the day, it would be too sedating to me; for me, it's a bedtime thing.

OP I really think phenibut could be worth checking out; it sounds like your restlessness at bed time is an anxiety thing, and phenibut is great for that, although not really a sedative. (It will stop those racing thoughts). Be warned: tolerance kicks in rapidly; I now take around 7 grams. (I believe an sleeping dose would be around 2000mgs, anti-anxiety dose would be far less.

Like many in this post, I find mirtazipine to be an excellent sleep-aid, and possibly your best bet.

Shit, I forgot to put in my post that like you said the grogginess did fade after about a week of being on it.

 

[dopemegently]

I should think most doctors would be happier prescribing mirtazapine rather then any of the benzos because mirtazapine is non-addictive and takes longer to build a tolerence to then the benzos.

In the UK, our doctors hate, and I mean HATE, to prescribe benzos now; it's absolutely being treated as the high-risk drug it is; so it appears that drugs like mirtazipine seem to be becoming the go-to drugs nowadays. My mum has severe anxiety, and would easily qualify for a long-term benzo prescription; she is prescribed amitryptaline in high doses, and monthly depixol shots.

BTW I haven't become tolerant to mirtazipine. My 30 mgs is still effective as a sleep aid, even after 6 years. (Although I'm also prescribed suboxone).

 

[velmwend]

Here's my little tale of etizolam use. It's not particularly wild but it gives you an idea how this drug creeps. It creeps very slowly and shrewdly. Beware!

I started to take etiz in February this year. I bought ten 1mg tablets and promised myself only to take one when I needed to sleep. Ten tablets lasted me a couple of months, and I was amazed at how sedate and content that little 1mg blue pill made me feel.

Anyway, I continued to stick to my routine: 1 x 1mg tablet, twice a week - that was it. But ahhh, that 1mg tablet stopped working. 1mg tablet twice a week...that's all. That's all I took. It stopped working. I blamed the vendors. Bad tablets, generic crap, don't work, shit strength, blah, blah. But I'd been receiving the orginal, the best, the blistered, official etilaam from my trusted vendor.

I bought more. I bought 30 tablets, and now I promise myself that I will only take 2mg twice a week, because 1mg doesn't work anymore.

2mg, twice a week. That's all. It feels so great. 2mg is perfect.

I'll report back to you this time next year!

 

[dopemegently]

I think you've shown excellent restraint and self control there, mate. I brought 50 only last week, and I find them so moreish, I only have 23
left. No matter how hard I try to stop myself and show control, I end up abusing drugs. I guess it comes down to poor impulse control, I guess.

Anyways, I'm def not buying more; the last thing in the world I need is a benzo dependence....