The ANGRY thread v2

[mydrugbuddy]

I haven't no...I've been using xanax to deal with PAWS, problem being my script has now run out and I don't trust myself to get benzos online. I quit heroin about 3 and a half months ago and PAWS were starting to get manageable until I slipped last week and used for a few days, and that seems to have put me back on square 1...which is really doing my head in. PAWS are fucking evil
I'd rather not get onto anti-depressants though, it's just a matter of not slipping like this really...

I know SSRIs in particular have a bad rep, and deservedly so, (coming off them is fucking hell) i think coming off my SSRI and switching to an non SSRI anti depressant may have caused some of the problems id been going through a few weeks back. Theres so many variables though. The phenazpam and stimulant binges were making things much much worse.

In short though, anti depressants have got to be a better long term choice than slipping back into full time heroin use if the PAWS depression you are facing is too much to deal with. Better than benzos too. The newer ones like venlafaxine and mirtazapine might be worth a shot, as might the first generation ones. SSRIs which are the doctors first line of treatment suck IMO, although they did help stabislise my mood a bit before they eventually "pooped out" on me.

 

[mrcientist]

Sorry to change the subject, and it isn't "anger" per se, but I'm flying and there's nae cunt to talk to! I know it's petty "anger" but it's so frustrating

 

[lurching]

The right SSRI in the right dosage may help MASSIVELY with post-opi bleakness. They can give a serotonin glow that puts everything in another light, in fact Citalopram reminded me of a very low dose of AMT 24/7. Definitely worth a shot.

 

[Bodda]

Pagey - No I am aware (in part) of your history

SHM - Bang on point yet again, at least someone understood where I was coming from.

MDB - But I have heard many a gear user saying they prefered odt as the quality of gear they could get was so poor. - Sadly not the case here my friend, have a look back through my posts & you will see I have been SCARED to kick this time after I came acorss some Afghan boys out of Birmingham as the quality is the best I've come across since the dry spell several years ago & i've sampled stuff all over the UK.

I don't mean this in a bad way but as you said you have never done "H" yourself but used other opiates before I comment anymore on your thread if you care to say I am very eager to know what you used.
Codeine aint going to cut the mustard with me btw

Knock - I understand the sentiment but it's not necessary that someone is directly affected by some condition, event, or state of affairs, to have a valid view on the subject, and in many cases the "bystander's" view is the preferred view:
I am sorry & I don't agree at all here with that or most of your posts, I still stand by the theory unless you been there, done it & got the t-shirt your view aint worth anything.
I am NOT saying that direct to you as a cuss etc, I could read the PV thread & raid Erowid on PV then think I have a view on it, unless I have had 1st hand experience of it my view doesn't count for anything.

 

[badandwicked]

Knock - I understand the sentiment but it's not necessary that someone is directly affected by some condition, event, or state of affairs, to have a valid view on the subject, and in many cases the "bystander's" view is the preferred view:
I am sorry & I don't agree at all here with that or most of your posts, I still stand by the theory unless you been there, done it & got the t-shirt your view aint worth anything.
I am NOT saying that direct to you as a cuss etc, I could read the PV thread & raid Erowid on PV then think I have a view on it, unless I have had 1st hand experience of it my view doesn't count for anything.

I think it depends on whats being discussed. If its 'what is it like to be addicted to heroin' then of course only the person with the habit has a valid view. If its 'how does addiction to heroin impact on life for the addict and those around him/her' then everyones view is valid. And necessary to build up a fully dimensional view of the situation.

 

[Bodda]

Angry, NO I AM FUCKING MAD.

Why bluelight logs you out after a selected amount of time is dumb, I just done a huge message & lost the lot.
This is the only real gripe I have with this board if I am honest & that message was really important too & it's now lost forever.

Someone better give me some goddamn compensation.

I think it depends on whats being discussed. If its 'what is it like to be addicted to heroin' then of course only the person with the habit has a valid view. If its 'how does addiction to heroin impact on life for the addict and those around him/her' then everyones view is valid. And necessary to build up a fully dimensional view of the situation.

Well as you quoted me direct I will give you the time for a reply, usually I would avoid you as your comments about me in the past have been less than nice but i'll reply to you.

I have to agree in part (which may make my earlier point invalid) but I can't really find fault with your view there if I am totally honest.
It just drives me mad when people want to talk on a subject they have no experience on, my mom watched Trainspotting & felt she was some kind of William S Burroughs for example, in my view that is a joke.

My God, I agree with badandwicked & took the time to reply to her, is hell freezing over?

 

[parttime crackhead]

Why do you have to prelude (is that the right word???) comments with whine whine whine, I'm so persecuted by you but I will reply this time even though I know you hate me whine whine whine? Why not just reply & try to leave whatever animosity that was in the past in the past (like every single other person that you perceive hates you seems to have managed to do) instead of constantly banging on about it?

I know I'm now banging on about it, but it's been going on for a while now & it's getting pretty fucking irritating tbh.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Bodda, there is a tick box for 'keep me logged on' and there as an auto save feature that kicks in so you can retrieve anything youve lost for any reason.

 

[Bodda]

Why do you have to prelude (is that the right word???) comments with whine whine whine, I'm so persecuted by you but I will reply this time even though I know you hate me whine whine whine? Why not just reply & try to leave whatever animosity that was in the past in the past (like every single other person that you perceive hates you seems to have managed to do) instead of constantly banging on about it?

I know I'm now banging on about it, but it's been going on for a while now & it's getting pretty fucking irritating tbh.

Please don't go down the same path as Sammy G with this "whine whine whine" logic, you know that isn't true PTCH & I welcome, nay tell you to go find say out of my 570ish posts 10% that begin like that.
I don't think every single person hates me, you want me to be honest I don't give a fuck what people think PTCH, look at what I say on here ffs!
You think I come on here with the logic of wanting people to think I am ace?......fuck no, i'm a goddamn smack junkie living in the arse end of Birmingham ffs.

Maybe you didn't see what SOME people said when I was removed, well I did & it aint been forgot, why you think I only reply to selected people for? because 2 faced people aint worth me even typing to reply for but now & again everyone will make a good point & if someone quotes me direct I will 98% of the time reply.

Now you read this, go find me 10% of my posts that being or are based around "comments with whine whine whine, I'm so persecuted by you but I will reply this time even though I know you hate me whine whine whine"

 

[parttime crackhead]

Well as you quoted me direct I will give you the time for a reply, usually I would avoid you as your comments about me in the past have been less than nice but i'll reply to you.

That's clearly what I was talking about. Think I'm wrong if you like. Please take this advice though - stop banging on about the past. Stop mentioning "oh you don't like me" or "oh you weren't nice to me" or "I know what you think of me" etc. Take things as they come & leave the past in the past.

Not gonna waste my time saying any more on it, as I really didn't want to get into an argument, & I can't be fucked with your victim shit.

 

[lurching]

victim shit.

Am tempted to do a word-count of "I" and "me" in Bodda's posts, for shit n giggles

 

[knock]

My God, I agree with badandwicked & took the time to reply to her, is hell freezing over?

badandwicked said pretty much the same as I did, just in different (fewer!) words. So I'm afraid you agree with me too.

 

[badandwicked]

Its true bodda, i'm not your number 1 fan. But that's not what this discussion it about. It's about validity of views on heroin addiction. The fact I respond to a point you made doesn't make me two faced.

It's not personal. That means it's not about you. Or as you would say, 'about bodda'.

You're dragging your suitcase of baggage from thread to thread and unloading it at every opportunity which is a bit tiresome.

 

[knock]

To be fair - this is the ANGRY thread... so he's sort of allowed to have a rant in here.

I'm angry Bodda obviously hasn't bothered to read my posts properly before deciding he disagrees

:D

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I think it depends on whats being discussed. If its 'what is it like to be addicted to heroin' then of course only the person with the habit has a valid view. If its 'how does addiction to heroin impact on life for the addict and those around him/her' then everyones view is valid.

Even when, almost inevitably, flawed?

People's attitudes are moulded by the dominant culture. The dominant culture says drugs are bad mkay and heroin is the baddest. So its still the case that the majority view of people who have their house burgled my someone needing a fix is 'string the bastard up, there's something innately bad in heroin and heroin users' rather than 'this wouldn't happen without prohibition and black market prices'.

So, er, no. I don't go with the everyone's view is valid. The trials of addiction are best understood by those who suffer them (which doesn't mean they know everything either, but they are a lot more of a specialist than most of those who call themselves so) and by those who work with and see them regularly and understand the political framework within which those addicted to drugs have to live and 'work'.

IMO

 

[knock]

People's attitudes are moulded by the dominant culture.

Very true, but obviously some of us, at some point, notice that the dominant culture is very often a bag of shite.

I don't go with "everyone's view is valid" either. Unless it's founded on some solid evidence (I include "experience" as a type of evidence) and analysis then "it ain't worth shit". Our dominant culture likes to push the "all views are valid" idea because it enables them to push all their other contradictory mind-fuck bullshit.

 

[badandwicked]

The trials of addiction are best understood by those who suffer them (which doesn't mean they know everything either, but they are a lot more of a specialist than most of those who call themselves so) and by those who work with and see them regularly and understand the political framework within which those addicted to drugs have to live and 'work'.

IMO

Quite. You can't entirely disregard the observations of someone who's tried to help a loved one or lost a loved one (physically or emotionally) to addiction. I didn't mean everyone everyone's views were valid, sorry I should have made that clear.

 

[Pagey]

FWIW, as someone who has been addicted to heroin, I don't think people who haven't been's opinions are useless and I'm always glad to hear them...so long as they don't claim or pretend to know exactly what it's like
So I agree with knock I guess. It's not because you haven't been through something that you can't sympathise with it to a certain extent.

I know SSRIs in particular have a bad rep, and deservedly so, (coming off them is fucking hell) i think coming off my SSRI and switching to an non SSRI anti depressant may have caused some of the problems id been going through a few weeks back. Theres so many variables though. The phenazpam and stimulant binges were making things much much worse.

In short though, anti depressants have got to be a better long term choice than slipping back into full time heroin use if the PAWS depression you are facing is too much to deal with. Better than benzos too. The newer ones like venlafaxine and mirtazapine might be worth a shot, as might the first generation ones. SSRIs which are the doctors first line of treatment suck IMO, although they did help stabislise my mood a bit before they eventually "pooped out" on me.

True, definitely a better choice than slipping back into full time heroin use...I just really don't like the idea of being permanently under something (ironic, isn't it, but then again that's also why I'm trying to properly quit smack) and yeah, so many horror stories when it comes to SSRIs. I don't mind benzos because I'm not on them permanently at all, I only use them as needed which doesn't tend to be more than every few days. But my GP wants to get me off benzos and onto SSRIs anyway so I'll probably end up trying what you're suggesting. Thanks for the recommendations btw.
Frustrating that extended withdrawals like this would come from a drug that doesn't even bring the slightest bit of anything positive to anyone.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

FWIW, as someone who has been addicted to heroin, I don't think people who haven't been's opinions are useless and I'm always glad to hear them...so long as they don't claim or pretend to know exactly what it's like
So I agree with knock I guess. It's not because you haven't been through something that you can't sympathise with it to a certain extent.
.

yeah thats what i was trying to say, ive got experience of coming off other opiates so while i dont know whats its like to come off heroin i know what its like to come off other opis. I dare say it may be a much milder WD experience, i havent suffered the projectile vomits and stuff but have suffered all the other symptoms.

BTW this page may come accross like a wall of anti-Bodda posts. I had that feeling like i was being met with a wall of anti mdb stuff when i was going through a bad phase and i was being aggressive so was getting a lot of that coming back at me and would be met with stuff like this. I'm not saying you've been aggressive here Bodda, because you havent. Bodda dont take it personally, i dont think everyone hates you they are just pointing some things out. I know how that feels when theres a lot of people doing it, it feels like the whole forum is against you, it really isnt though. Fuck, i havent phrased this very well, but i hope you get what im trying to say.

 

[Pagey]

yeah thats what i was trying to say, ive got experience of coming off other opiates so while i dont know whats its like to come off heroin i know what its like to come off other opis. I dare say it may be a much milder WD experience, i havent suffered the projectile vomits and stuff but have suffered all the other symptoms.

Myeah, acute WDs such as vomiting etc. are the easy part anyway. Yeah they're considerably more intense with heroin than with other opiates IME but PAWS are the really awful bit. IMO anyway, I know lots of other heroin addicts would disagree with me which just goes to show that it's not even cuz you've been through it that you've had the exact same experience. Whether someone who's had PAWS off other opiates can relate exactly I dunno, I guess not, but ofc you still have a say.