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fact/fiction? "percent purity"

I believe this thread has already been resolved with the fine input of all the members of this discussion. The GC/MS analysis would be very hard to come by in this world, unless you were legitimately connected with the chemistry analysis business. The only other way to discover the purity content that I believe would be through a re-crystallization technique. Just weigh it out and then attempt to strip the impurities out, discovering the leftover quantity to approximately guess the purity level.

*Edit*

Any input from a dealer or manufacturer from a clandestine lab would definitely not be able to tell you the purity level of the substances they are creating/dealing. You have to think about and treat illicit drug distribution as a business. Many people will falsify information through the streets because conformity is prevalent in the drug world in regards to word of mouth. Marketing ploys such as hyping up a product will always be present. The level of difficulty in finding out the presence of a substance through reagent/acid tests and determining the purity level of a substance are highly disparate. We have a valuable resource/network like pillreports to share information about substance content, but the absence of a legal community for testing illicit substances in laboratories (licensing and DEA/FDA) leads to a scarcity of reports on purity.

Folley said:
also let's not forget that we've seen MDMA re-rocked with cuts like MSM the way methamphetamine is. It's almost certainly the chemist, or at least someone with knowledge of chemistry, doing that.
http://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=Methylsulfonylmethane
Click to expand...

This is quite true. Most chemists without respect for the quality of the products they create will surely add a way to cut other chemicals into their synthesized dope. Money is a big factor in many of the batches that are created; there is a hefty risk involved so why not create a way to make more money off of a cheaper investment?

Distributors next down the line from the chemists have obviously been in the game long enough to understand the chemistry behind the things that they sell. Cutting MDMA after the whole synthesis has been completed is a lot easier than creating MDMA from the essential precursors. There isn't really that much chemistry involved...
 
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.:Holy::Toast:. said:
In t13147584e hcl salt how much of it can be mdma theoretically?
Was it 84%? 86%? I've heard so many numbers
Click to expand...
For the smartasses mdma hcl has a molecular weight of 229.7 g/mol

The freebase weight is 193.25 g/mol

This means 100% mdma hcl contains 84.13% freebase by molecular weight.this does NOT mean the product is 84% pure.

The proper use of 84% referring to mdma should only refer to the amount freebase molecular bonded to hcl in salt form
 
What people like Folley are saying is only partially true. Yes it is true a compound never has a maximum purity of 84%, every compound is pure when it is has a 100% purity.
Now that said, test results of DUTCH test centers are always for the freebase. I have explained this in this thread:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-542471-p-11.html
Please read this before starting to state that it is untrue what I'm saying. To confirm my theory, based on common knowledge of chemistry and pharmacology (I am a chemist) I asked it to the test centers, both by mail and in person, they rest for the freebase! I don't know if sites like ecstasydata.org do the same. So if a pill is tested at 200 mg MDMA it actually contains about 240mg MDMA.HCl. There is a reason why there NEVER EVER has been a test result of 84% for MDMA powder in Dutch test centers, and please don't say that all MDMA is cut to 84%, this is bullshit.

It is a fact that even many pharmaceutical drugs state the amount of active drug (so the freebase or carboxylic acid, excluding the counter-ion) because if you state the weight of the whole compound, there may still be a huge difference in potency depening on the salt.
 
molar mass of MDMA is 193 grams per mole. molar mass of HCL is 36 grams per mole. So in MDMA HCl about 16% of the weight is due to the HCl.
But MDMA freebase is a caustic oil and therefore not really reccomended for human consumption... and therefore we can say that 100% pure MDMA = 100% MDMA salts without cuts. I only wonder whether other salts of MDMA are common
 
xyz9876 said:
What people like Folley are saying is only partially true. Yes it is true a compound never has a maximum purity of 84%, every compound is pure when it is has a 100% purity.
Now that said, test results of DUTCH test centers are always for the freebase. I have explained this in this thread:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-542471-p-11.html
Please read this before starting to state that it is untrue what I'm saying. To confirm my theory, based on common knowledge of chemistry and pharmacology (I am a chemist) I asked it to the test centers, both by mail and in person, they rest for the freebase! I don't know if sites like ecstasydata.org do the same. So if a pill is tested at 200 mg MDMA it actually contains about 240mg MDMA.HCl. There is a reason why there NEVER EVER has been a test result of 84% for MDMA powder in Dutch test centers, and please don't say that all MDMA is cut to 84%, this is bullshit.
Click to expand...
15.96%*200~232 not 240.

But the point folley was making (clearly you missed) is without a GC/MS machine, which 99.9999999% of dealers do not use, they are simply BSing a mythical number when referring to purity. and it's a number that only refers to the amount of freebase in MDMA HCl, not actual product purity.
 
xyz9876 said:
What people like Folley are saying is only partially true. Yes it is true a compound never has a maximum purity of 84%, every compound is pure when it is has a 100% purity.
Now that said, test results of DUTCH test centers are always for the freebase. I have explained this in this thread:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-542471-p-11.html
Please read this before starting to state that it is untrue what I'm saying. To confirm my theory, based on common knowledge of chemistry and pharmacology (I am a chemist) I asked it to the test centers, both by mail and in person, they rest for the freebase! I don't know if sites like ecstasydata.org do the same. So if a pill is tested at 200 mg MDMA it actually contains about 240mg MDMA.HCl. There is a reason why there NEVER EVER has been a test result of 84% for MDMA powder in Dutch test centers, and please don't say that all MDMA is cut to 84%, this is bullshit.

It is a fact that even many pharmaceutical drugs state the amount of active drug (so the freebase or carboxylic acid, excluding the counter-ion) because if you state the weight of the whole compound, there may still be a huge difference in potency depening on the salt.
Click to expand...

You're going to have to find me a quote from the testing centers themselves saying they test for MDMA freebase for me to believe that. I've heard it a few times now, and everytime I ask for proof the person who mentions it disappears never to be heard from again.


I'm sure the centers themselves would love to clear up these misconceptions. To think they would report the weight for the freebase drug makes NO sense to me, however. Especially if they aren't making it VERY obvious to the average users. All dosage tables have been formed using MDMA.HCl, do you think they are giving your average pill tard a series of calculations to figure out ACTUAL dose of their drug? Or do you think they just let everyone take much more than they anticipated?
 
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Fiction. A very small percentage of the producers can even say how pure their chemicals are, let alone the dealers that sell it. For example, MDMA would not be 84% pure if it had any traces of precursors. Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but "brown sand" is likely less than 50% pure MDMA (Implying precursors, not actually active content.)
 
severely etarded said:
15.96%*200~232 not 240.

But the point folley was making (clearly you missed) is without a GC/MS machine, which 99.9999999% of dealers do not use, they are simply BSing a mythical number when referring to purity. and it's a number that only refers to the amount of freebase in MDMA HCl, not actual product purity.
Click to expand...
I was simply quickly estimating the approximate amount of MDMA HCl, but thanks for correcting me.
True point about the dealers. I was making a point about the test results from Dutch labs which are given to people who want to have their drugs tested. And these ARE given as the amount of active MDMA (or freebase).
 
Folley said:
You're going to have to find me a quote from the testing centers themselves saying they test for MDMA freebase for me to believe that. I've heard it a few times now, and everytime I ask for proof the person who mentions it disappears never to be heard from again.


I'm sure the centers themselves would love to clear up these misconceptions. To think they would report the weight for the freebase drug makes NO sense to me, however. Especially if they aren't making it VERY obvious to the average users. All dosage tables have been formed using MDMA.HCl, do you think they are giving your average pill tard a series of calculations to figure out ACTUAL dose of their drug? Or do you think they just let everyone take much more than they anticipated?
Click to expand...
I have deleted the mail unfortunately. I don't care if you believe me or not, what I do care about is that you are spreading the information that the test centers test for MDMA.HCl. For comparison, I don't care if someone believes the earth is flat, I do care when they start spreading this information as it is true.

If it makes no sense to you, it is obvious that you have not read or do not understand my post in the link I posted. Why would I lie about the information the test center gave me. To win a million dollars? To beat Folley in an argument? No, none. I am just telling the truth. I have given you plenty of reasons why they test for the freebase:
-NEVER has there been a test result for any compound (MDMA, amphetamine, etc) which is above the theoretical percentage for the freebase
-see the link for the theory as for why they test for freebase or active drug
-The labs confirmed this.

I have provided you with plenty reason why my point is true. I am doing my masters in chemistry. You are a 17 year old with what seems to be not a whole lot knowledge in chemistry/pharmacology, and the position of active member or admin does not make your points correct. So it seems you are the one who needs to show me proof (for example those tables with results you always talk about) as the only proof you have given that they test for MDMA.HCl is that you believe so.
If you don't want to do this, fine. But stop spreading the fact that the Dutch test centers test for MDMA.HCl.
 
cyberius said:
Fiction. A very small percentage of the producers can even say how pure their chemicals are, let alone the dealers that sell it. For example, MDMA would not be 84% pure if it had any traces of precursors. Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but "brown sand" is likely less than 50% pure MDMA (Implying precursors, not actually active content.)
Click to expand...

I would say that number to be a bit low for some product. Lots sure but there can still be some very strong tan or even brown mdma
I've been absolutely floored off of 180mg tan sassy MDMA.
Same with lots of other people for the dark brown crystally stuff, I tend to think that although precursors can make their way into the finished product, they don't have as much effect on purity as you would think.
Perhaps with the hcl salt I would say 70-75%.
 
cyberius said:
Fiction. A very small percentage of the producers can even say how pure their chemicals are, let alone the dealers that sell it.
Click to expand...

I was going to say. I seriously doubt that even many of the manufacturers of illicit chemicals have access to analytical services.

(It's more "probable" for RCs but even for them, I don't take those GC/MS/NMR charts or purity statements very seriously.)

.:Holy::Toast:. said:
I would say that number to be a bit low for some product. Lots sure but there can still be some very strong tan or even brown mdma
I've been absolutely floored off of 180mg tan sassy MDMA.
Click to expand...

I would imagine it would not take a whole lot of an impurity to make a substance brown.
On the other hand, the "common" MDMA dosage is 60-80mg from what I understand. 180mg could be fairly impure yet still "floor" someone.
 
xyz9876 said:
I have deleted the mail unfortunately. I don't care if you believe me or not, what I do care about is that you are spreading the information that the test centers test for MDMA.HCl. For comparison, I don't care if someone believes the earth is flat, I do care when they start spreading this information as it is true.

If it makes no sense to you, it is obvious that you have not read or do not understand my post in the link I posted. Why would I lie about the information the test center gave me. To win a million dollars? To beat Folley in an argument? No, none. I am just telling the truth. I have given you plenty of reasons why they test for the freebase:
-NEVER has there been a test result for any compound (MDMA, amphetamine, etc) which is above the theoretical percentage for the freebase
-see the link for the theory as for why they test for freebase or active drug
-The labs confirmed this.

I have provided you with plenty reason why my point is true. I am doing my masters in chemistry. You are a 17 year old with what seems to be not a whole lot knowledge in chemistry/pharmacology, and the position of active member or admin does not make your points correct. So it seems you are the one who needs to show me proof (for example those tables with results you always talk about) as the only proof you have given that they test for MDMA.HCl is that you believe so.
If you don't want to do this, fine. But stop spreading the fact that the Dutch test centers test for MDMA.HCl.
Click to expand...

This is kind of, well, ground-breaking. This would mean that the orange bombs were nearer 300mg of psychoactive MDMA? Ridiculous! I don't want to question you, because other than my own intuition I have no evidence of otherwise, but it seems dubious. I agree with Folley, why would the test centre issue a number that isn't actually that useful to the user? And if they did, surely they should make it extremely clear that the amount of psychoactive MDMA is infact higher than the value they have provided you. It just doesn't seem right to me. Here's how much MDMA is in your pill, which you paid a good price to find out, but now you've got to use a mathematical equation to work out the actual psychoactive dose.

When all drugs websites use HCL as their reference for dosage, it appears counter-intuitive for a test center to provide you with freebase details. It's just outright misleading.
 
^ They don't, however. Just because they test for the freebase doesn't mean they report that dosage to the public. It would be much simpler for them to convert that dosage into HCl (provided it's not another salt) than it would be to handout calculators with every dose.


That's why I'm going to keep asking for a direct quote, it seems odd to me that no one can seem to find one AFTER they talk to me :\
 
Folley said:
^ 60mg is most certainly not a common dose. Neither is 80mg.
Click to expand...

Never mind, I misread the Erowid dosage page. 60mg-80mg is what Erowid says is the typical MDMA mg in one pill, not the typical "common" dosage.

They list 75-125 mg as "common" for therapeutic grade MDMA though and note most MDMA is cut, so 150mg as the typical "street" dose makes sense (especially if Erowid is using freebase and not Hcl dosage).
 
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