Opioids Am I Going to Be OK? (CWE questions)

[Blinkk]

Well at about 2:30PM (It's 9 Now In my Time Zone) I did a CWE on 50 Tylenol 1's. It worked pretty well, although the water was still relatively cloudy (couldn't actually see through it), I got a lot of crap left in the filters (had to use about 3 sets of 2 filters). Anyways that's 15 grams Acetaminophen, 400mg Codeine, and 750mg Caffeine.
I felt great from about 15 minutes after, until around 40 minutes after, when my mood steeply declined, I started getting mild shakes, I began getting nauseous and getting mild stomach pain. This continued to get worse until about 5PM, when I threw up a couple times, although not too much came up. Just now, about 15 minutes ago, I threw up about 6 or 7 times. A LOT came up, and it was awful, however I feel a lot better now. It keeps getting worse and worse until I throw up, and then it gets worse again until I throw up again.

The really scary part about this is that apparently signs of OD from tylenol don't show up until after 12 hours or so..

Am I going to be okay? How long after taking acetaminophen can it be removed from your system via puking?
So damn scared right now...

Thanks guys...

 

[Thanatos9]

Might just be the mixture of caffeine and codeine causing nausea. Opiates all make me very nauseated without an antihistamine.

If you're worried go to A&E.

 

[Morphling]

It sounds like you were acutely ill from over-consumption of caffeine. It's difficult to say how much paracetamol/APAP you consumed and if it would constitute an overdosage, but if you're truly worried that you've consumed a toxic dose you should seek emergency care. If I recall correctly that consists of IV administration of n-acetyl-cysteine. As for puking it up...I couldn't even speculate.

 

[Blinkk]

Alright thanks guys. I'll just hang tight :s . I don't have a car atm, needs work done, and the hospital is a ways away. Not to mention it didn't go overly well the last time I went to the Hospital for what I thought was an OD... Family shit.

 

[HCL]

Why all the caffeine?

 

[SaosinEngaged]

Alright thanks guys. I'll just hang tight :s . I don't have a car atm, needs work done, and the hospital is a ways away. Not to mention it didn't go overly well the last time I went to the Hospital for what I thought was an OD... Family shit.

None of what you just listed is a legitimate excuse for not calling an ambulance if you feel you've accidentally put your life in jeopardy. I'm not saying you did or didn't, too many variables to speculate. IF you used too much water, you might have consumed too much APAP, or if you did it correctly, it's probably the caffeine (that's a LOT). However, if it were me, I'd get checked out. It isn't worth the risk with how toxic APAP is in large quantities.

And for future CWE experiments, please PLEASE make sure you do it correctly to the point where you KNOW you've taken out all the APAP possible. Remember to use the lowest amount of water possible, as the amount of APAP that gets dissolved increases substantially the more water it's exposed to.

Best of luck.

 

[Blinkk]

Saosin I did use too much water... Way too much probably. I really truly hope it is the caffeine.. I'll tell you right now I won't be doing any more CWE experiments..

I read that a properly done CWE removes >80% of the Acetaminophen... I probably used twice as much water as I should (4ml / Pill rather than 2ml / Pill), as I didn't know that Tylenol dissolved more in more water..... How much would've been removed in that case? I'm really hoping it's more than 50% or so

Sorry for double post
For the last hour or two, I've felt a lot better, and have not thrown up, nor been shaking at all. I don't know if this is a good sign or not.... I know that the main symptoms won't show for about 12 more hours, however I'm trying to gauge the situation and figure out if I should be writing notes to my family members..

Thanks guys.

 

[flyhighk]

If I was you I'd go to the nearest supplement shop and buy me some NAC ( n acetyl l cysteine ) and take 5000mg or so. That can help your liver. In 200ml there should be about 2500mg dissolved apap. It's probably 3000+ mg.
Edit : for apap poisoning the initial dose of NAC is 140mg/kg (IV) followed by 70mg/kg every 4 hours. I think oral doses should be similar.

 

[Tryptamite]

That is quite a large dose of codeine if you are opiate naive. It most likely caused you to spew. Also 750mg caffeine is surely an overdose and likely to make you feel anxious and physically unwell.

Will you be ok? Nobody here can say for sure. APAP overdoses happen all the time.

Everything is soluble in everything to some extent. Increase in volume and temperature will cause more of the unwanted/wanted compound to dissolve.

There is also a way to remove most of the caffeine from your CWE. Search for it. It involves reducing (by heating) the amount of liquid after initial filtration and further filtration. Codeine is far more soluble in water than caffeine and will stay dissolved in smaller volumes of h2o whereas caffeine will precipitate out (after cooling).

To stop yourself worrying about toxicity when consuming CWEs, weigh all the pills before crushing and dissolving them in water. Then after filtering out the APAP, allow the filter cake to dry and weigh the remaining powder (your APAP, water insoluble fillers/binders, and small traces of codeine and possibly caffeine depending on the pills).
Subtract the smaller second amount from the first amount, account for the codeine and caffeine that should have dissolved, the missing weight (x) is the APAP that has dissolved in your CWE.

CWEs are normally cloudy because of the fillers and binders that dissolve in the water. It is not a good indication of how much paracetomol/ APAP there is in there.

Also I hope people are at least using decent coffee filters and not kitchen paper or old t-shirts. Laboratory filter paper would be best.

 

[Ksa]

Well at about 2:30PM (It's 9 Now In my Time Zone) I did a CWE on 50 Tylenol 1's. It worked pretty well, although the water was still relatively cloudy (couldn't actually see through it), I got a lot of crap left in the filters (had to use about 3 sets of 2 filters). Anyways that's 15 grams Acetaminophen, 400mg Codeine, and 750mg Caffeine.
I felt great from about 15 minutes after, until around 40 minutes after, when my mood steeply declined, I started getting mild shakes, I began getting nauseous and getting mild stomach pain. This continued to get worse until about 5PM, when I threw up a couple times, although not too much came up. Just now, about 15 minutes ago, I threw up about 6 or 7 times. A LOT came up, and it was awful, however I feel a lot better now. It keeps getting worse and worse until I throw up, and then it gets worse again until I throw up again.

The really scary part about this is that apparently signs of OD from tylenol don't show up until after 12 hours or so..

Am I going to be okay? How long after taking acetaminophen can it be removed from your system via puking?
So damn scared right now...

Thanks guys...

What water volume did you use and did you cool it down?

 

[Blinkk]

What water volume did you use and did you cool it down?

I had planned on using 100, then accidently used what I thought was 200. Double checked this morning, it was around 350. I used warm water, and then kept it in the freezer until tiny little ice crystals were just about to start forming. I had another bowl in there of just water which I soaked the coffee filters in.

Thanks everyone else for their answers as well. As for the high dose, I've taken 25ish pills before and felt nearly nothing, and was recommended by a 'friend' to jump straight to 50 pills if I wanted to feel anything.

What water volume did you use and did you cool it down?

I had planned on using 100, then accidently used what I thought was 200. Double checked this morning, it was around 350. I used warm water, and then kept it in the freezer until tiny little ice crystals were just about to start forming. I had another bowl in there of just water which I soaked the coffee filters in.

Thanks everyone else for their answers as well. As for the high dose, I've taken 25ish pills before and felt nearly nothing, and was recommended by a 'friend' to jump straight to 50 pills if I wanted to feel anything.

Edit: would that Supplement (can't remember the name and can't go back im on my phone) for acetaminophen OD still help at this point? I took the codeine about 19 hours ago.

 

[Ksa]

I had planned on using 100, then accidently used what I thought was 200. Double checked this morning, it was around 350. I used warm water, and then kept it in the freezer until tiny little ice crystals were just about to start forming. I had another bowl in there of just water which I soaked the coffee filters in.

Thanks everyone else for their answers as well. As for the high dose, I've taken 25ish pills before and felt nearly nothing, and was recommended by a 'friend' to jump straight to 50 pills if I wanted to feel anything.

You overdosed on APAP slightly. The program gives the minimum figure, as if your filtration was flawless. If the solution was cloudy, you should add a 1.5 factor to that. As the program suggests, the major problem was not the filtration, but the water volume you chose to use.

You should see a doctor asap just to be sure ur ok.

 

[pinpoint]

You overdosed on APAP slightly. The program gives the minimum figure, as if your filtration was flawless. If the solution was cloudy, you should add a 1.5 factor to that. As the program suggests, the major problem was not the filtration, but the water volume you chose to use.

You should see a doctor asap just to be sure ur ok.

Please tell me you're joking. You took the time to write code for acetaminophen toxicity?

In 10 years of BL I've seen some nerd stuff but man, you are a potent challenger for title champion.

 

[Ksa]

Please tell me you're joking. You took the time to write code for acetaminophen toxicity?

In 10 years of BL I've seen some nerd stuff but man, you are a potent challenger for title champion.

This guy took nearly half the lethal APAP dose dude, he needs to see a doctor, don't spam his topic but this is an early version of the code if you're interested haha:

import java.io.*;
import java.util.*;
import java.text.*;
public class Tylenol
{
  public static void main(String[] args)
  {
    DecimalFormat a = new DecimalFormat(".00");
    Date date = new Date();
    double n = 1;
    do{
      try{
        System.out.println("    _/    _/    _/_/_/    _/_/    ");
        System.out.println("   _/  _/    _/        _/    _/   ");
        System.out.println("  _/_/        _/_/    _/_/_/_/    ");
        System.out.println(" _/  _/          _/  _/    _/     ");
        System.out.println("_/    _/  _/_/_/    _/    _/      ");
        System.out.println(date.toString()+"\n");
        System.out.println("Welcome to Ksa's disolved acetaminophen calculator!\n");
        System.out.println("WARNING: This program outputs toxicity information for acetaminophen only.");
        System.out.println("         Daily use of acetaminophen can be hazardous regardless of output.");
        System.out.println("");
        System.out.println("Select a topic and press enter:");
        System.out.println("");
        System.out.println("1. Check if a solution has safe amounts of disolved acetaminophen.");
        System.out.println("2. Give me the acetaminophen water solubility value for a certain temperature.");
        System.out.println("3. Exit");
        Scanner input = new Scanner(System.in);
        double entry = input.nextDouble();
        n = 2;
        if(entry==1)
        {
          Scanner input3 = new Scanner(System.in);
          System.out.println("");
          System.out.println("Enter solution temperature before filtration:");
          double temperature = input3.nextDouble();
          if(temperature < 0)
          {
            System.out.println("Water freezes at zero degrees celsius.(Invalid value)");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          System.out.println("");
          System.out.println("Enter amount of pills:");
          double pills = input.nextDouble();
          if(pills < 0)
          {
            System.out.println("Invalid entry.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          System.out.println("");
          System.out.println("Enter acetaminophen content of one pill, in miligrams (mg):");
          double apap = input.nextDouble();
          if(apap < 0)
          {
            System.out.println("Invalid entry.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          System.out.println("");
          System.out.println("Enter the total water volume, in millilitres (mL):");
          double water = input.nextDouble();
          if(water < 0)
          {
            System.out.println("Invalid entry.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          double solubility = (0.0006*Math.pow(temperature,2) + 0.0165*temperature + 0.7221)*10;
          double intake = pills*apap;
          double intake2 = water*solubility;
          if(temperature > 50)
          {
            System.out.println("Your temperature is unsafe and may result in high amounts of disolved acetaminophen.\n Please lower the temperature below 50 degrees Celsius.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          if(pills > 50)
          {
            System.out.println("You have entered "+ pills+" pills. That may be unsafe for other reasons.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input5 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input5.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          if(pills*apap < water*solubility && pills*apap>8000)
          {
            System.out.println("The solution contains "+ a.format(intake/1000)+ " g of disolved acetaminophen.");
            System.out.println("Ingestion can result in fatal acetaminophen overdose.");
            System.out.println("Death occurs aproximatly 8 hours after ingestion if no antidote is provided.");
            System.out.println("Reason of death: Liver failure.");
            System.out.println("Using "+ 2.5*pills+" mL of water instead of "+water+" mL should render the solution safe to ingest.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input6 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input6.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          else if(pills*apap >= water*solubility && water*solubility>8000)
          {
            System.out.println("The solution contains "+ a.format(intake2/1000)+ " g of disolved acetaminophen.");
            System.out.println("Ingestion can result in fatal acetaminophen overdose.");
            System.out.println("Death occurs aproximatly 8 hours after ingestion if no antidote is provided.");
            System.out.println("Reason of death: Liver failure.");
            System.out.println("Using "+ a.format(2.5*pills)+" mL of water instead of "+a.format(water)+" mL should render the solution safe to ingest.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input7 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input7.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          else if(pills*apap < water*solubility && pills*apap>2000)
          {
            System.out.println("The solution contains "+ a.format(intake/1000)+ " g of disolved acetaminophen.");
            System.out.println("Ingestion is hazardous and can result in permanent liver damage.");
            System.out.println("Using "+ a.format(2.5*pills)+" mL of water instead of "+a.format(water)+" mL should render the solution safe to ingest.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input8 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input8.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          else if(pills*apap >= water*solubility && water*solubility>2000)
          {
            System.out.println("The solution contains "+ a.format(intake2/1000)+ " g of disolved acetaminophen.");
            System.out.println("Ingestion is hazardous and can result in permanent liver damage.");
            System.out.println("Using "+ a.format(2.5*pills)+" mL of water instead of "+a.format(water)+" mL should render the solution safe to ingest.");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input9 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input9.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          else{
            System.out.println(pills*apap < water*solubility ? "The solution contains "+a.format(intake/1000)+ " g of disolved acetaminophen." : "The solution contains "+a.format(intake2/1000)+ " g of disolved acetaminophen.");
            System.out.println("Ingesting the solution is safe occasionally, given it only contains water and acetaminophen ");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input9 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input9.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
        }
        else if(entry==2)
        {
          System.out.println("");
          System.out.println("Enter water temperature in degrees Celsius from 0 to 100C:");
          Scanner input2 = new Scanner(System.in);
          double temperature = input2.nextDouble();
          if(temperature < 0)
          {
            System.out.println("Water freezes at zero degrees Celsius(Invalid value)");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          else if(temperature > 100)
          {
            System.out.println("Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. (Invalid value)");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input4 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input4.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
          else{
            double solubility = 0.0006*Math.pow(temperature,2) + 0.0165*temperature + 0.7221;
            System.out.println("The solubility of acetaminophen in water at "+temperature+" degrees Celsius is "+a.format(solubility)+"g/100mL");
            System.out.println("Press Enter to abord.");
            Scanner input9 = new Scanner(System.in);
            String entrya = input9.nextLine();
            System.exit(0);
          }
        }
        else{System.exit(0);}
      }
      catch(Exception e){
        System.out.println("");
        System.out.println("Invalid entry. Please try again.\n");
      }
    }while(n==1);
  }
}

 

[flyhighk]

I used cotton balls. I was able to get a very clear solution.

 

[Blinkk]

This guy took nearly half the lethal APAP dose dude, he needs to see a doctor, don't spam his topic but this is an early version of the code if you're interested haha:

I Like to do a little coding myself every once in a while

Also, I should've mentioned : they were out of Tylenol 1's, and gave Me the generic ones, idk why I called them t1's. they contain 325 acetaminophen.

thanks

 

[Ksa]

I Like to do a little coding myself every once in a while

Also, I should've mentioned : they were out of Tylenol 1's, and gave Me the generic ones, idk why I called them t1's. they contain 325 acetaminophen.

thanks

Changes nothing, the output is the same, I can't tell the exact amount that you took because I wasn't there with you to see what you did but I'm 100% sure you took between 3g and 4g APAP.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

2 and a half grams is not fatal. If done irregularly.

APAP is most harmful when the liver is already compromised. (cirrhosis, alcoholism, weird enzyme levels....etc.)

APAP is not fatal for a couple grams... It's more than 4 to 5 grams. One should not be worried about it if he is not drinking at only 2.5 grams...

Don't freak out... Nearly everyones merry-go-round with opiate has had at least one incidence of grams of APAP.

Just do a better extractions if you plan on going further with this, and forget this even happened...

Take your time and do it right.

It takes mistakes to make mistakes...

Note: Liver damage is hardly the case in infrequent sub acute doses. Chronic toxicity will do it however....

It does heal and is one of the fastest recovering internal organs.

 

[Blinkk]

I'm not much of a drinker tbh. I simply wanted to check up, as there was a total of 15G of acetaminophen in the pills, and I wasn't sure if I'd simply done the CWE poorly and left more than 50% or something in there.

Better safe than sorry, and thanks so much everyone

 

[sekio]

It's the 750mg caffeine that made you ill, not the APAP. 2.5 grams of APAP isn't likely to cause acute harm. Maybe if you're 6 years old it will.

The FDA's recommended 24 hour limit is 4 grams. The LD50 is somewhere above 10 grams.

Anyway, taking ~800mg of caffeine is enough to make pretty much anyone super sick. Anything over about 200mg is going to be a bad choice for non-caffeine-tolerant people.

KSA, your code is about a million times longer than it has to be, learn to reuse input streams.