Methamphetamine Discussion Thread 2.0

[Docta]

What are people's thoughts on ketone and how can you tell the difference? A friend was moving some ketone, selling it as gear (meth) and ppl kept coming back, so figure it must be alright...

What?
Ketones: R₂CH(OH) + O → R₂C=O + H₂O the word just denotes the existence of a carbonyl group C=O two carbon bond.

You would need to be more specific because there are shit loads of Aromatic ketones, there's got to be near on 100 or so substances with the structure RC(=O)R plugged in somewhere some how. About half are Cathinones so it could be any of that 40 or 50 different compounds.

 

[footscrazy]

^ 'Ketone' is commonly used to refer to racemic methamphetamine, racemic meth containing around 50-50% of both the D and L isomer of methamphetamine. D-methamphetamine accounts for the effects people typically are after from meth. L-methamphetamine is not thought to cross the blood brain barrier, and has mainly peripheral effects, like body stimulation - raised heart rate, anxiety etc. So with 'ketone' you're only getting half as much d-methamphetamine per weight than you would with methamphetamine synthed through a route that produced the D isomer only. That's comparing pure samples though. Given a lot of stuff is cut to shit, there's no guarantee which will actually contain more d-isomer. It all depends on the person too. Some people reckon they prefer ketone.

I don't believe there is a sure way to tell the difference, unless you were there for the synth. Ketone is harder to make into crystals, though.

 

[Docta]

There is no Benzyl Methyl Ketone left after the reductive alkylation so I don't see the connection to the end product, you are correct the intermediate is methylated to become a racemic mixture of R- and S- isomers.

You are also correct that the isomers will not build a crystal lattice structure that can repeat so the upshot is after recrystallization the end product comes out looking like sand.

The racemic mixture can be easily resolved by conversion to benzoic acid with L-tartaric acid resulting in the d- isomer only.

FYI the old "d" and "l" designation of optical activity hasn't been used in chemistry for like 30 years. And just so you know for future reference and upper case D means something other entirely.

If your going to use the old plane of polarization terms (levorotatory) and (dextrorotatory) always use lower case.

The optical activity prefixes are: (+)- and (−)- or d- and l-

 

[Oxyuranus]

Hey Michael, PM me about your band dude. Sounds cool!

I can relate, I think, my personality changed quite a bit when I used meth the first time. I became a lot more spontaneous and less OCD which was a nice change. I also became a LOT more aggressive and pretty paranoid.

I haven't used in like 7 or 8 months I guess. Wanna know what the good news is mate? Those personality changes have completely gone!! I started to notice it after only a couple of months and I guess I was my old self again after about 6 months. I reckon you can look forward to the same thing if you choose not to use.

It's a fun drug though and very alluring.

 

[g0to]

^I think that one type of meth hcl seen on the street is called "ketone" because it comes from the precursor known more commonly P2P (phenyl-2-propanone which contains a ketone or =O group) or as you stated its alternative name Benzyl Methyl Ketone, imo a convoluted name. Use the IUPAC names ie: 1-phenylpropan-2-one.

Furthermore, Its not exactly the most efficient or easy thing to resolve enantiomers using tartaric acid.

And to clarify, d and l (ie: dextro and levo, one rotates light to the right by a certain amount and the other rotate to the left) are *definitely* not deprecated terms as of current day, it has its place, and its a good empirical method to roughly determine certain samples composition.

I would however really prefer if everyone would start to label it S(+)-methamphetamine and R(-)-methamphetamine. That way it is much more intuitive for someone to draw the molecule in terms of its geometry at the stereocenter.

D- and L- is used for quite different stuff, like designating the relative positions of substituents present in carbohydrates (ie: glucose etc)

 

[person]

LMAO im rushing off meth bong water! infact I quite like ROA water meth bong gives you a good hit, so can put it away and have another hit later on but sometimes got to be careful, dont want heart to overwork itself so stay safe fellow meth users!

n.b. cracked your meth pipe? no worries buy the glass car repair kit and just apply gel to the crack

 

[8ball1234]

The white stuff in the bulb when you smoke like the resin, is it a sign of a cut? Because when I get really good shit there's way less white resin in the bulb and stem like it takes .2 to get it a white

 

[footscrazy]

There is no Benzyl Methyl Ketone left after the reductive alkylation so I don't see the connection to the end product, you are correct the intermediate is methylated to become a racemic mixture of R- and S- isomers.

You are also correct that the isomers will not build a crystal lattice structure that can repeat so the upshot is after recrystallization the end product comes out looking like sand.

The racemic mixture can be easily resolved by conversion to benzoic acid with L-tartaric acid resulting in the d- isomer only.

FYI the old "d" and "l" designation of optical activity hasn't been used in chemistry for like 30 years. And just so you know for future reference and upper case D means something other entirely.

If your going to use the old plane of polarization terms (levorotatory) and (dextrorotatory) always use lower case.

The optical activity prefixes are: (+)- and (−)- or d- and l-

Thanks for the information Docta.

My use of 'ketone' in this context was simply to describe its commonly understood meaning; I use apostrophes around 'ketone' to denote I'm using it in this slang context rather than literally. As much as I dislike it sometimes, words are misappropriated but go on to develop a shared meaning which is relevant in the context - such as 'base' to refer to gluggy, heavily cut (meth)amphetamine salts. The product it refers to is rarely freebase, but the term is now commonly understood to refer to a specific product, and so becomes meaningful in it's own right.

FWIW, I do know that dextrorotatory and levorotatory optical activity is denoted by lower case letters, but I wrote it in the way I thought it would be more easily understood, and thought it wouldn't really matter in the context of the thread. Obviously, I was wrong

 

[Docta]

...........alternative name Benzyl Methyl Ketone, imo a convoluted name. Use the IUPAC names ie: 1-phenylpropan-2-one.

Sorry about using incorrect nomenclature, I'm a new member and was trying to fit in, I had the impression it (BMK) may have been the connecting to there terminology.

Furthermore, Its not exactly the most efficient or easy thing to resolve enantiomers using tartaric acid.

Sorry again I was under the impression that specified details of synthesis are prohibited on this forum so that comment was a little vague.

I'll try to give some clarification, I was referring to the methyl and ethyl alcohol type separation (British Patent 508,757) Not selective crystallization or a solvent-free resolution. I should have said D-(−)-tartaric acid a mistake I didn't pick up on till you mentioned it. That was a bit messy I will be more cearful in future.

 

[Docta]

. My use of 'ketone' in this context was simply to describe its commonly understood meaning; I use apostrophes around 'ketone' to denote I'm using it in this slang context rather than literally.

I go it now after reading over old posts. It was my first day and now I feel a little silly about some of my comments. In hindsight I should have read around the forum to learn your language not imposed my interpretation on you.

I have some insight into the problems in association with 'ketone' and why it has its gluggy to oily consistency.

My question is how much detail are we permitted to go into on such subjects?

 

[popeyes mate]

The white stuff in the bulb when you smoke like the resin, is it a sign of a cut? Because when I get really good shit there's way less white resin in the bulb and stem like it takes .2 to get it a white

Every smoker has their own opinion on this.. And it comes up often.

If I have a smoke and get any moisture drops in the top of my pipe I tend to think thats cut, possibly MSM.

I will always leave any residue that builds up on my pipe until at least .4 has been through it. Then I slowly melt it on an angle (not hot enough to smoke up) back down into the bowl of the pipe into one big puddle.

I usually dont have the strength to leave it for another day, so after having smoked a few points.. Its quality is as you can imagine hard to judge. I do find though this last puddle smokes nicely, recrystalizes well, and lasts a long while.

Some will say its just cut and wash it away. Each to their own.

I have really noticed when my stuffs been cut recently. From the first puff it will actually take my breath away, and even after a huge inhale, no, or little smoke is expelled. It also takes ages to reset too. If I roll it around in the pipe you can see some bits setting way before the rest.

But for me its that first inhale exhale and Its obvious.

 

[8ball1234]

So it could be the cut or could be actual meth. I personally smoke the resin cuz as you said it does recrystalize nicely.

So lets say it is meth that would mean the stuff that doesn't resin up like other stuff does and is spotty in spread of that white blob that would mean its more cut but what doesn't make sense is that the best gear I've had always resins up really slowly and if I smoke a .2 it won't resin up enough to smoke the resin. And the stuff that's not as good will leave lots of resin after .2 and will have the crystal on the sides of the white blob.

To me it seems as though it is cut based on the evidence but I still smoke it anyway because I'm not a 100% sure and there could be some meth in there haha. But if its cut that must be horrible for your lungs and body to be smoking just straight cut. So I would like to know if anyone knows for a fact that its cut or meth.

 

[Captain Brewster]

So I would like to know if anyone knows for a fact that its cut or meth.

I think it's both, and depending on what cut it is, all at different ratios. Something that's very hard to be sure about. Would think that method of vaping might change this too.

There was a fair bit of talk about this here in AussDD, can't remember if it's this thread or another one, I'll have a dig.

 

[MeltedMM]

Haha searching the carpet for dropped meth. I used to do this frequently. Main reason because I always drop my gear just as I'm scooping it out of the bag-_-... haven't done that I ages. Has anyone else noticed how the quality and look has severely change with meth these days just compared to how it was a year ago? Last year it was so potent then everyone I knew could only get white slushy weak as shit crap for a couple months and it just hasn't been the same since.

 

[MeltedMM]

I think all meth these days are cut. It's just to what extent and what part of the process of making it they cut it. I've learnt that white resin like superfine powder left behind means it's cleaner (not necessarily stronger but possibly) it doesn't tend to crystalise on the glass as much as others it more so covers it in thick white snow like layers. Everyone makes it different so it could easily just be an ingredient substituted for something else.

 

[Stato]

Haha searching the carpet for dropped meth. I used to do this frequently. Main reason because I always drop my gear just as I'm scooping it out of the bag-_-... haven't done that I ages. Has anyone else noticed how the quality and look has severely change with meth these days just compared to how it was a year ago? Last year it was so potent then everyone I knew could only get white slushy weak as shit crap for a couple months and it just hasn't been the same since.

Me too! I used to do this back when I was a hardcore meth head, Sitting at my table packing pipes, I'd convince myself I dropped a bit on the table and swept it off heh.

I can't afford meth anymore (jobless) - so when I feel like getting high I've been using MDPV, yuck... smoking doses of 20mg of so, but quite a lot is lost due to the taste and me coughing it up, or simply poor technique (Meth has no taste, I'm perfect at smoking that)

I IV'd a shot of MDPV tonight, missed 20 units of it so on with the hot compress etc. It should be OK I'll monitor it - Prior to doctor visit if it gets bad I have access to some cephlahexin 500mg, erythromycin 250mg or amoxycillin 500mg straight or with potassium clavulanate as 875 amox/125 clav acid (augmentin duo forte) which is probably the best I would think (I had it for chest infection, and then cephlahexin after discharge from hospital)

Again (NOW) IV'd about 10-15mg of MDPV, no Miss this time -- much better result. I'm sweating like a pig and well stimulated (resting HR started at 120, keeping eye on it) but MDPV yuck just makes me miss proper meth hcl.

Anyone shout me a pipe or something?

Stato

 

[oldirtybizza]

I think all meth these days are cut. It's just to what extent and what part of the process of making it they cut it. I've learnt that white resin like superfine powder left behind means it's cleaner

I'd imagine nowadays unless you deal with someone who makes it or brings it in, that it's gonna be cut as if it wasn't enough of a ripoff.
I'd disagree on the white residue, how can something left behind make it cleaner? it's likely a cut or an unclean synth.

 

[cyberius]

I just snorted about 35mg of meth for the first time. I'm not really feeling anything though. I'm feeling a little more focused, and I feel jittery, but nothing euphoric or any moodlift. Is this normal? Did I take too low of a dosage?

 

[Captain Brewster]

There was a fair bit of talk about this here in AussDD, can't remember if it's this thread or another one, I'll have a dig.

Found it: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/602731-Meth-Question-Recrystallized-Recycled-Meth-in-the-Pipe

 

[popeyes mate]

I just snorted about 35mg of meth for the first time. I'm not really feeling anything though. I'm feeling a little more focused, and I feel jittery, but nothing euphoric or any moodlift. Is this normal? Did I take too low of a dosage?

Id love it if you could take this one piece of advise Cyberius:

Make it the last 35mg of meth you ever snort too. Tell yourself it never gets any better than the very first time, and leave it there.

If not, the doses get bigger, your financial outlay does too.. And before your know it you will be smoking .2g in a couple of hrs just to stay home and watch a shitty movie you lost interest in 15min in.

Good luck. Spend your money on concert tickets, holidays etc and really get out there and live life.

Good luck