Yopo and Cebil: DMT or Bufotenine?

[CrypticArc]

I am curious about the therapeutic and recreational properties of these seeds, and I'm pretty sure they're legal in the United States if not for human consumption.
The two seeds have different chemicals; Yopo contains more DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, whereas Cebil seeds have much more Bufotenine (5-HO-DMT) and something called n,n-DMT, which I am unfamiliar with. I've heard on numerous occasions that Bufotenine is a powerful neurotoxin, but honestly I can't really say either way.
I'm not saying that I'm going to use them, but either way, I'm not really into the whole snuff idea, and I'm aware that smoking the seeds yields less results than snorting, but I'm fine with that. Which of these two might provide a better experience if someone were to use them (At least on a chemical level)? In other words, which one is less toxic/safer? Potency is also a factor, if anyone is willing to share.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

n,n-DMT is synonymous with DMT (it's just saying the two methyl groups referred to by the DM portion are on the n position of the tryptamine). I'm not sure if any particular variety of Anadenanthera is preferable as far as snuff/smoked preparations go.

Anyway, you'll definitely want to check out this thread.

 

[Toz]

n,n-DMT is what you want really. 5-MeO-DMT is a more sinister version of n,n-DMT and bufotenine I have no idea about.

 

[sekio]

Bufotenin / 5-OH-DMT is not a neurotoxin, just a hallucinogen. You may be thinking of the cardiotoxic bufotalin or other bufotoxins.

Both experiences will be pretty intense.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

n,n-DMT is what you want really. 5-MeO-DMT is a more sinister version of n,n-DMT and bufotenine I have no idea about.

How do you mean. All three are incredible psychedelics, all have their place....and there is nothing DMT-like about 5-MeO-DMT....much less is it 'sinister' more like it is 'reality.' I'm not sure I could pick a favorite out of the three...even if you held a gun to my head and a trimming shears to my member.

To the OP....Yopo and Cebil are all bufotenine. One variety *might* have small amounts of DMT but it is all 'cooked off' in the preparation process leaving just bufotenine

 

[Solipsis]

You said this before, but I think it is wrong to assume that DMT is cooked off because the freebase has a low boiling point. Nobody said the seeds contain freebase alkaloids, I believe lime is added after the toasting of the seeds isn't it? In MHRB compounds like DMT are thought to exist as the much more stable tannate salts. It could be that it degrades at toasting temperatures but assuming that may be premature.
Otherwise shamans boiling ayahuasca for hours would be a big fail! (Though I acknowledge that the temperature is a bit lower)

 

[EarthBounded]

Cebil Seeds are very high in Bufotenine and Both species of seeds are most active when snuffed, I have read trip reports of people smoking the seeds with a good experience, I was hung over for about three days after insufflating Cebil and Lime. I would not consider it a therapeutic high, it was overwhelming it was a good learning experience however much different than DMT.

I believe lime is added after the toasting of the seeds isn't it?

100% Correct

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Well you are right, it is better to point out the amount of DMT that may be present is so small, it cannot contribute to the effect. You are correct, the alkaloids are not present as a base, they are in a some salt form...not sure what, and that is why you add the lime and cook the buggers. Actually you toast them first to pop off the skins, then mash em up with lime and water to a paste, then toast again. This is where the DMT is cooked off because the temp is hot enough to smoke DMT with (you use a stove).

So far I suppose I did not find it therapeutic either, but I've never isolated bufotenine, just smoked the beans. It felt awesome though, was very visual, and a lot of fun.

You said this before, but I think it is wrong to assume that DMT is cooked off because the freebase has a low boiling point. Nobody said the seeds contain freebase alkaloids, I believe lime is added after the toasting of the seeds isn't it? In MHRB compounds like DMT are thought to exist as the much more stable tannate salts. It could be that it degrades at toasting temperatures but assuming that may be premature.
Otherwise shamans boiling ayahuasca for hours would be a big fail! (Though I acknowledge that the temperature is a bit lower)

 

[WSH]

5-MeO-DMT is a more sinister version of n,n-DMT

5-MeO-DMT is a more SPIRITUAL version of DMT.
Compared to DMT, there are almost NO visuals but more of what i'd call true yoga.
But i agree that it can be very frightening, more so than DMT.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I echo this. I still have not figured out what the hell (smoked) DMT is. And I still have not tried ayahuasca so I know I still have a lot to learn.

 

[EarthBounded]

but I've never isolated bufotenine

That sounds traumatizing, it would be a fun simple extraction, but Insufflating Cebil and lime literally made me crazy for 3 days I can't Imagine isolated Bufo. I recommend taking a month off work if your going to try that lol

 

[wayab]

hmm strange... so anybody know exactly the diffrence between cebil and yopo? with me yopo was very very intense but lasted no more than an hour with another hour of after effects. defenitley back to baseline the next day.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

How do you mean. All three are incredible psychedelics, all have their place....and there is nothing DMT-like about 5-MeO-DMT....much less is it 'sinister' more like it is 'reality.' I'm not sure I could pick a favorite out of the three...even if you held a gun to my head and a trimming shears to my member.

To the OP....Yopo and Cebil are all bufotenine. One variety *might* have small amounts of DMT but it is all 'cooked off' in the preparation process leaving just bufotenine

Jonathan Ott claims that he has only found bufotenine as major alkaloid in both yopo and cebil, and both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT only occur in trace amounds, and he seems to have done quite some research in those: http://www.erowid.org/archive/sonoran_desert_toad/ott.htm

So far I suppose I did not find it therapeutic either, but I've never isolated bufotenine, just smoked the beans. It felt awesome though, was very visual, and a lot of fun.

how much seed material did you use for good effects? probably I should try to do so as well, to see what bufotenine is like after all. I always thought the only reasonable way to do so was acid/base extraction from yopo or cebil seeds, and I was too lazy to do so yet. also snorting large amounds of plant material sounds a bit too disgusting to me to be a real option.

5-MeO-DMT is a more SPIRITUAL version of DMT.
Compared to DMT, there are almost NO visuals but more of what i'd call true yoga.
But i agree that it can be very frightening, more so than DMT.

I consider both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as very spiritual, but I have of course to agree that both compounds are very different (probably as different as two tryptamines probably can be). I think the best comparison one can give in short words is that 5-MeO-DMT is called "the power" and DMT is called "the glory" for a good reason.

 

[Toz]

5-MeO-DMT is a more SPIRITUAL version of DMT.
Compared to DMT, there are almost NO visuals but more of what i'd call true yoga.
But i agree that it can be very frightening, more so than DMT.

Yea that's what I meant sort of, less recreational than DMT (and more spiritual for you people who are spiritual by nature, I am not). For someone like me who takes drugs mostly for recreational purposes and see no real therapeutic value in psychedelics (again only talking about myself here), it easily becomes more sinister

 

[Morninggloryseed]

how much seed material did you use for good effects?

Not much at all, potent little beans. I had the cohoba type (said to be less potent) and usually two beans worth (they are small, this is not a lot to smoke) did it. I only had my corn cob pipe at the time, no water pipe, so I could never get more than one or two hits in at a time. I am quite sure with a water pipe and my iron lungs I would not even need to isolate bufotenine to get a fully immersive dosage.