Is suboxone worth it?

[RTrain]

The benzo use was an issue for me, too, the last time I used subs to get clean. This is the 3rd time I have been using subs for an extended period of time. I used it once to get clean and stayed on for 1.5 months and then got off them with the help of clonazepam. I had been using the benzo occasionally while on subs but once my dose got real low and then when I jumped (which caused no w/d cause I tapered to under .1 mg a day) I was using clonazepam basically every other day for maybe another 1.5 months. At this point I realized I was going to become addicted to the clonazepam and from horror stories of that I figured I was better off stopping. But I couldn't just stop so I started using opiates again. I was back on those but did cut back the benzo use to avoid dependence.

The second time I used Subs for a long time I believe I was taking clonazepam a few times a week. I ended up trying the Subs during week and H on weekends things, which turned to Subs when I had no money and H otherwise in about 3 weeks. I kept taking benzos, started uisng diazepam, ust a few times a week to add to my high.

This time I got off the benzos 3 weeks prior to starting the Subs. I haven't touched one since so its been about 5 weeks. I honestly don't like them much, though I found the diaz much more enjoyable than the clonazepam, but didn't last as long. I think benzos are bad news honestly and you will just replace one addiction with another. I always stayed away from daily use because of horror stories about the w/d's. Benzos also are going to lower your inhibitions so relapsing is more likely when the benzos are blocking out all the reasons you shouldn't relapse.

 

[opiatekrzy]

totally agree with you there. i cant picture myself without them forever. for the longest time that is my motivation to do anything, thats my light at the end of the tunnel, the end of the work week, the end of the day. i should have plenty other things to look forward to, but the opiates have brainwashed me.

they brainwashed me too, and this suboxone is merely a placebo effect for me, its like my "cup of coffee int he morning" to get up and function, when in reality i doubt its doing much at all except causing a blockade effect, but hey i guess if that what gives me the drive to get out of bed, for now, that is. than so be it. until i can get stronger and overcome my poly addiciton someday.

 

[BeardScraper]

they brainwashed me too, and this suboxone is merely a placebo effect for me, its like my "cup of coffee int he morning" to get up and function, when in reality i doubt its doing much at all except causing a blockade effect, but hey i guess if that what gives me the drive to get out of bed, for now, that is. than so be it. until i can get stronger and overcome my poly addiciton someday.

i all of a sudden cant score anymore. everyone i know dropped off the face of the earth. so i ended up using kratom to feel OK. and BS codeine. now im psychologically dependant on the kratom. i dont even want to get out of bed if i dont have any. wish i could just stop thinking about it. but i've got the bug and its residing in my brain somewhere.

 

[opiatekrzy]

what is kratom? i hear about it all over these sites in the aide for opiate withdrawl. is it some sort of synthetic opioid? obviously it is addicting from reading threads on it, and based on what u said not being able to get out of bed. what does kratom do, kill physical WD?, provide mental euphoria similiar to opioids? is it available at nutrition stores, or online, is it controlled? i am interested in maybe trying it if im ever in a bind....i been off methadone maintenance for 48 days now, and switched to suboxone when i was on 130mgs meth, and dropped to 20mg meth-converted over. 48 days later i STILL feel like shit, i been taking 3 subs a day, and everyday i feel like im going thru a mild opiate withdrawl, which i dont understand how thats possible. according to my doctor, 3 subs a day occupies 99% of ur opiate receptors, then again its a partial agonist, than again im clueless...so i know how u feel..i tried taking less then 3 subs a day thinking too much suboxone was making me feel like shit, but i feel like im going thru PAWS or methadone withdrawl still, and i been on suboxone for 48 days ever since i left the methadone clinic. i have no energy. im depressed. i relapse frequently on heroin/methadone in hopes it would kill the discomfort im going thru, but to me this all appears to be mental..sorry for driftng off topic, i been on addys since yesterday and not slept yet, and just feeling like blah...i would like to know about kratom however..

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

Dude 3 pills a day is why you feel like shit I'm quite certain if you drop to 1 pill a day you will feel better even 8mg a day is to much

 

[RTrain]

^kratom is a natural plant, mitrygna speciosa or something like that. It has action of certain opiate receptors(mainly K I believe and minor mu activity, or something like that), but also has stimulating effects. Honestly the high isn't much different than what suboxone provides, but it has more potential because of subs ceiling effect. With kratom it depends on the dose, lower doses tend to be speedier and higher ones start to act like opiates. Too high is no good, also. It is hard to dose but if you get a consistent supply you can find what works good for you. I used it for a little because I was clean but craving a opiate like high, but it has too many down sides and I went back to oxycodone. The only convenient and efficent was I found to use it is what the kratom users call toss-and-wash. Basically you throw a spoonful in your mouth (ground up powder which is the way you want to buy it) and wash it down as quickly as possible. It is the worst tasting stuff on earth. I hear people complain about suboxone's taste, kratom makes it taste like chocolate ice cream.

 

[RTrain]

Dude 3 pills a day is why you feel like shit I'm quite certain if you drop to 1 pill a day you will feel better even 8mg a day is to much

100% truth. I am pretty sure if you drop that dose to 16 mg a day you won't even notice a difference. Then dropping to 8 mg a day won't even be very noticeable either. You can't feel more than 4-6 mg at a time, and if you take 8 mg a day you will steadily have more than 8 mg in you rsystem because your body cannot eliminate all 8mg in a day, never mind 2 days.

There are charts that shows your plasma levels of bupe when taking daily at certain doses, because of the half life it just keeps building. Say you are taking 16 mg a day for 10 days, at that 10th day you are hitting levels equal to taking a full 32 mg dose. But around 10-15 days it evens out and each day the increase is very small, that is when they have considered you to have "stablized".

I have to ask you opikraz, is that what you are prescribed, 32 mg? I just started with a new Dr. and he handed me out some piece of paper saying the manufacturer of the Suboxone will not allow for more than 16 mg /day to be Rx'd. Now I was not aware of this and I think it is because they are really trying to crack down on diversion of suboxone. But idk, but it would stand to reason because taking more than even 8 mg a day is practically pointless. If that doesn't hold you then you probably need to use methadone, because your tolerance is too high for suboxone's ceiling effect. You said you took 130 mg of methadone, that is a heft dose, well more than the suboxone ceiling effect can reach.

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

It's weird because I woke up like 2 hours ago and I start craving and I'm thinking about scoring, but I know that it a waste of money and time and stress and if I just do my subs that are sitting right next to me I'll be fine. Ugh.

 

[opiatekrzy]

yea i know, i been on and off of it 5 years, and i had positive effects with just taking 4 mg a day, but since coming off of 120mg methadone in 2 weeks, and down to 20mg and switched to subs, i figured i would take 3 a day as my doctor says "3 a day will occupy 99% opiate receptors", so with that statement i ran with it, but honestly, i still feel like im going thru a "mild opiate withdrawl" 48 days later being on subs, still get the yawns, runny nose, restless legs, etc..so idk i suppose im going thru PAWS, but how is that possible if the bupe is filling the receptors? idk what to think ne more

 

[opiatekrzy]

100% truth. I am pretty sure if you drop that dose to 16 mg a day you won't even notice a difference. Then dropping to 8 mg a day won't even be very noticeable either. You can't feel more than 4-6 mg at a time, and if you take 8 mg a day you will steadily have more than 8 mg in you rsystem because your body cannot eliminate all 8mg in a day, never mind 2 days.

There are charts that shows your plasma levels of bupe when taking daily at certain doses, because of the half life it just keeps building. Say you are taking 16 mg a day for 10 days, at that 10th day you are hitting levels equal to taking a full 32 mg dose. But around 10-15 days it evens out and each day the increase is very small, that is when they have considered you to have "stablized".

I have to ask you opikraz, is that what you are prescribed, 32 mg? I just started with a new Dr. and he handed me out some piece of paper saying the manufacturer of the Suboxone will not allow for more than 16 mg /day to be Rx'd. Now I was not aware of this and I think it is because they are really trying to crack down on diversion of suboxone. But idk, but it would stand to reason because taking more than even 8 mg a day is practically pointless. If that doesn't hold you then you probably need to use methadone, because your tolerance is too high for suboxone's ceiling effect. You said you took 130 mg of methadone, that is a heft dose, well more than the suboxone ceiling effect can reach.

i heard rumors about stopping 3 pills a day being covered by insurance at pharmacies, i know a few years back, they were letting people be RXed 4 pills a day (32mg) and still get RX coverage thru insurance, but a law passed, and now if u are RXed more then 3 a day, u have to pay cash out of pocket, as of NOW, my insurance covers me getting 3 subs a day (24mg), but like i said i heard rumors they may drop that lower....as far as being on 130mg of methadone, yes i was..i got kicked out of the clinic, and they decreased me 10mg every 3 days, when i hit 20mg, i just switched over to subs. but still 48 days i been off methadone and still feeling mild opiate WD symptoms, so IDK. i live in New York State, so IDK if state regs are diff then where u are, but as of now 24mg is the max insurance will pay for ur RX

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I don't recommend suboxone, I recommend iboga but if you must use the 'one then I can share my experience....after severe morphine addiction it took me a good month to become stable on suboxone (and high dosages) before I missed 'being high' or warm and fuzzy as with morphine. Decide what you want to do and stick with it till you know better. The back and forth is making it much harder for you.

 

[opiatekrzy]

is it true it only takes only one dose of ibogaine to kill all physical and mental cravings, if thats even possible?

 

[morphonorconic]

The adverse effects you're experiencing now are almost certainly a result of the alternating back and forth between buprenorphine and heroin. I suspect your mood and behavior is erratic and unpredictable, and that they vary dramatically from day to day.

For several years I saw a doctor who only prescribed a weeks worth of pain meds at a time. I would take them all in four days or less. Consequently, I'd be in withdrawl every single weekend, just biding my time in misery, waiting for Monday to roll around. I organized my life around this absurd cycle, and I've never been so miserable. All weekend I'd think about how great it was going to be when I got my refill and about all the things I was going to do, how much fun I'd have, and how good I'd feel. But I was delusional, because there never was any great high and I never had any fun. I'd feel mildly euphoric for a few hours Monday morning, which quickly faded into simply being functional again and free of w/d symptoms. Yet I seemed somehow to forget this every single week, convincing myself that this lifestyle was normal and sustainable- even deceiving myself into believing that I had a well-established system which allowed me to use responsibly and experience the joys of opiates that others were missing out on and were too ignorant or stupid to figure out for themselves, like I knew something no one else knew. The habitual weekly episodes of withdrawl were of course horrible, but the profound damage I was doing to my brain and body's natural balance resulted in serious depression, anxiety, seclusion, aggression etc. because I never allowed myself any time to recalibrate. Ultimately I lost the girl I loved as a result of my behavior, and that was the end of my drug abuse and addiction. It was no way to live.

The solution is simple, and you already know what the truly viable options are. Actually carrying them out is more difficult but consider what is at stake, your potential, and what you are capable of without all this shit, and weigh that against what you are getting out of your current method. Opiates were great in the beginning, but what have they done for you lately?

 

[opiatekrzy]

^ wow that was deep. u explained my addiction exactly how it is. its nice to know were not alone as addicts.

 

[mrs_mia_wallace]

I dropped it down to eight mgs... I feel less anxious but I'm yawning and I've got chills and the sweats and I wake up sick. So, I don't know if that's the solution. If I went down to four mgs I think I would just be sick.

I honestly think I just want to get off this shit entirely and really be forced to decide whether I want to continue to use and be a junkie or I want to be clean, no more being in limbo.

 

[bloodshed344]

is it true it only takes only one dose of ibogaine to kill all physical and mental cravings, if thats even possible?

Possibly. You should PM MGS and ask him about it in detail. He seems very proud and confident in his experience with ibogaine so I would suggest getting advice from him about this.

 

[BeardScraper]

The adverse effects you're experiencing now are almost certainly a result of the alternating back and forth between buprenorphine and heroin. I suspect your mood and behavior is erratic and unpredictable, and that they vary dramatically from day to day.

For several years I saw a doctor who only prescribed a weeks worth of pain meds at a time. I would take them all in four days or less. Consequently, I'd be in withdrawl every single weekend, just biding my time in misery, waiting for Monday to roll around. I organized my life around this absurd cycle, and I've never been so miserable. All weekend I'd think about how great it was going to be when I got my refill and about all the things I was going to do, how much fun I'd have, and how good I'd feel. But I was delusional, because there never was any great high and I never had any fun. I'd feel mildly euphoric for a few hours Monday morning, which quickly faded into simply being functional again and free of w/d symptoms. Yet I seemed somehow to forget this every single week, convincing myself that this lifestyle was normal and sustainable- even deceiving myself into believing that I had a well-established system which allowed me to use responsibly and experience the joys of opiates that others were missing out on and were too ignorant or stupid to figure out for themselves, like I knew something no one else knew. The habitual weekly episodes of withdrawl were of course horrible, but the profound damage I was doing to my brain and body's natural balance resulted in serious depression, anxiety, seclusion, aggression etc. because I never allowed myself any time to recalibrate. Ultimately I lost the girl I loved as a result of my behavior, and that was the end of my drug abuse and addiction. It was no way to live.

The solution is simple, and you already know what the truly viable options are. Actually carrying them out is more difficult but consider what is at stake, your potential, and what you are capable of without all this shit, and weigh that against what you are getting out of your current method. Opiates were great in the beginning, but what have they done for you lately?

ummm holy crap man. you have also described my EXACT predicament. used to be with oxy. now with whatever i can get + kratom.

 

[Kerrigan]

I just feel like things could be infinitely worse, and maybe this is as good as my life gets-- maybe suboxone is the one thing that keeps me from going completely off the rails. My Dr. is totally adamant that I should not even think about coming off it anytime soon.

I'm sorry, but you should not think like that. Why would you feel that you're only allowed a certain amount of contentment and peace before life starts to go to hell? It really seems like you're about to get deeper and deeper in trouble; is there anyone you can talk to about this who may be able to help? Is this doctor really helping you or are they just using you for money? It's awful to hear that your previous doctor was using you, though friendliness and empathy aren't always easy to find in medical professionals sometimes, so it sucks that he was robbing you!

You are not in an ideal situation at all: change it. Get off the suboxone if it's doing nothing for you, 'cause you'd be taking the Suboxone and Heroin either way, right? You still need to have some kind of plan in place to get away from it all. Maybe try methadone instead of buprenorphine, though I would not recommend it as a recreational drug.

Get help. If you were half on fire, would you refuse to call for help 'cause you're not 100% burning?

Just because things can get worse does not mean they can't get better. You deserve to have it better! It may also turn out that this elusive high you're chasing is just illusory; you'll always end up with a tolerance and the potential high will get further and further away. The pleasant sensations at the beginning just aren't worth the time, effort, money and pain involved--it's far too emotionally draining to continue doing; you'll be better off when you quit.

I honestly think I just want to get off this shit entirely and really be forced to decide whether I want to continue to use and be a junkie or I want to be clean, no more being in limbo.

That's great. I wholeheartedly agree and think you deserve to have a great life without addiction to any of these dangerous substances.

morphonorconic said it best.

Best of luck, mrs_mia_wallace.

 

[kratomkid]

I agree, if you truely want off opiates, you need to stick to just the sub, then I would recommend tapering down if you don't want to be on subs the rest of your life. That said, getting off the sub is NOT an easy task. I was at 16 mg of sub per day, and slowly tapered myself down to 1mg, because just hated the thought of being on that expensive medication my whole life($250 a month that shit costed) anywho I was fine up until he stopped taking the subs all together. Looked into it and because of bupes ridiculous half-life, opposed to Opana and H's very short half-life, the w/d's of it are between 2 and 4 weeks. Son of a B****. I'm is on day 11 of Sub detox and it's still unbearable. pain is better, but still only averaging an hour of sleep a night if i'm lucky. Just tried to stay isolated at home, exercise and cut off ties with anybody who sells opiates, and I mean ANYBODY. it's been miserable, but I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Anywho, opiatekrzy, Kratom, IMO, is a miracle drug. It's 100% natural leaf Matrigyna Speciosa, believe from Thailand mainly, natural painkiller and is a stimulant as well. It's not intoxicating at all IMO but it completely puts W/D's to hault, and gives me the energy to get through the day. I personally would use Kratom over Sub any day, because the W/D is piece of cake and between 2 and 3 days. I used it through the first couple of days of severe sub W/D, effin magical drug as far as maintaining normalcy.I plan on taking about 20 gs of Kratom through days 18 and 19 of Bupe w/d. and by the time I'm detoxed off the Kratom, the Bupe w/d should be finally overwith. Then just gotta worry about getting through PAWS and staying away from the wrong people(which IMO is most important). Anywho, to respond to the first post (As I got a little off subject) first things first is get off the original opiates then you can worry about all the fun stuff. aha. This is NO cakewalk, going through pain is inevitable, no matter what. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's true if you ever wanna be completely clean. I wish you the best of luck and glad to be here on bluelight, as this is my first post on anything

 

[Blind Melon]

Methadone > Suboxone. If I could change any decision I've made in the past year it would be kicking methadone. Sweet, sweet, pink juice. You saved my life. Now that I'm on Subs I feel like I'm constantly chasing a high I'll never find. I'm swallowing benzos by the bottle, smoking meth, stealing etc. Doing shit I wouldn't have dreamt of while on Methadone. Fuck Suboxone, one wonky-ass drug if you ask me.