Tryptamines did hippies take shrooms?

[Ismene]

The Native Indians of those countries have been using them for thousands of years, just like they used tobacco in its raw form, morning glory seeds, psychedelic snuff/Yopo, and even Ayahuasca in some countries.

Native indians where tho? Yeah they did in central Mexico, but the native americans in the USA for example only discovered peyote in the late 1800's. Don't assume they've all been using psychedelics for thousands of years. I wasn't aware of any group other than the aztecs using mushrooms - they were in Mexico.

Love the one answer. YOU HAD TO GO ALL THE WAY TO MEXICO SO PEOPLE DIDN'T DO IT.
Oh shit, didn't know that if you had to go to another country to get a drug you wouldn't do it

Taking trips to see Maria Sabina is something that well-known people were doing late 60s. Allegedly even John Lennon went. Now if John Lennon couldn't find mushrooms anywhere except Mexico, you know one thing for certain - no long-haired hippie sat in Haight Ashbury could.

 

[DrunkardsDream]

Some people here on this thread are rewriting the past to suit your own agenda. Those of us who were around back in the late 60s and early 70s remember taking magic mushrooms then, and they were available to use if you wanted to trip on them.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Native indians where tho? Yeah they did in central Mexico, but the native americans in the USA for example only discovered peyote in the late 1800's. Don't assume they've all been using psychedelics for thousands of years. I wasn't aware of any group other than the aztecs using mushrooms - they were in Mexico.

Archeologists have found ancient Pre-Columbian artifacts dating back centuries that depict Psilocybin containing mushrooms as artwork on them in these countries.

Hippies and people in the 60s did take mushrooms, and even morning glory seeds and other seeds like Hawaiian baby Woodrose seeds that contain LSA however at the time they were seen as something that only somebody who was totally unable to get LSD, mushrooms, good pot, or mescaline/peyote would resort to using. They also would take pretty much anything that would get you high or that they thought would. Friends of mine who were around in the 60s and early 70s described how a rumor spread that if you dried out banana peels and smoked them you would get high and people actully did this then.

 

[Ismene]

Archeologists have found ancient Pre-Columbian artifacts dating back centuries that depict Psilocybin containing mushrooms as artwork on them in these countries.

True, there was limited use of them in the aztec era. But remember the aztecs were confined to one area of Mexico. South America is an awful big place.

Hippies and people in the 60s did take mushrooms

How were they getting them tho? The western world only found out they existed in the late 50s in a place in Mexico. Within 10 years you think 17 year old hippies managed to work out which mushrooms around them were psiloycbin and were confident enough of picking the right sort that they were all tripping? I've got my doubts. Remember - if they made a mistake they risked agonising death. My guess is most hippies would say "Man, fuck that shit, I'll wait for the next batch of acid".

 

[aussie101]

and other psycedelics? (mescaline, etc) than just acid?

Just wondering as I personally get a much more spiritual, headspacey trip from shrooms, where I almost feel like i'm a part of nature. As opposed to acid, which has some moments at the peak where I feel quite trancendent, but for the most part is mostly pretty visuals/ patterns.

Because of this I would have thought shrooms would appeal more to hippes than acid? Shrooms are also from nature itself, not a chemical that comes from a lab.

More of a historical/ sociological question than anything but was just wondering so thought i'd make the thread. Dunno if it belongs more in drug culture than here.

I know plenty that did. Also, I take mushrooms and get called a hippie by my friends. I hope that answers your question.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

True, there was limited use of them in the aztec era. But remember the aztecs were confined to one area of Mexico. South America is an awful big place.

Hippies and people in the 60s did take mushrooms

How were they getting them tho? The western world only found out they existed in the late 50s in a place in Mexico. Within 10 years you think 17 year old hippies managed to work out which mushrooms around them were psiloycbin and were confident enough of picking the right sort that they were all tripping? I've got my doubts. Remember - if they made a mistake they risked agonising death. My guess is most hippies would say "Man, fuck that shit, I'll wait for the next batch of acid".

Study history, Pre-Columbian Meso-American and South American cultures, and the history of mycology. Their use was not limited to only Mexico or the Aztec tribe, and yes hippies did take mushrooms in the 60s and early 70s.

 

[pharmakos]

here's a picture of Nick Drake holding a handfull of what appears to be Psilocybe mushrooms:

Nick Drake died in 1974

i know Wikipedia isn't necessarily a good source, but from the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom

The popularization of entheogens by Wasson, Leary, authors Terence McKenna and Robert Anton Wilson, and others has led to an explosion in the use of psilocybin mushrooms throughout the world. By the early 1970s, many psilocybin mushroom species were described from temperate North America, Europe, and Asia and were widely collected. Books describing methods of cultivating Psilocybe cubensis in large quantities were also published. The availability of psilocybin mushrooms from wild and cultivated sources has made it among the most widely used of the psychedelic drugs.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semilanceata

In 1965, forensic characterization of psilocybin-containing mushrooms seized from college students in British Columbia identified P. semilanceata[55]—the first recorded case of intentional recreational use of the mushroom in Canada.[56]

^references cited::

[55] Heim R, Genest K, Hughes DW, Belec G. (1966). "Botanical and chemical characterization of a forensic mushroom specimen of the genus Psilocybe". Journal of the Forensic Science Society 6 (4): 192–201. doi:10.1016/S0015-7368(66)70336-3.
[56] Metzner R. (2005). Sacred Mushroom of Visions: Teonanácatl: A Sourcebook on the Psilocybin Mushroom (2nd ed.). Rochester, Vermont: Park Street Press. ISBN 1-59477-044-1.

from http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/wong/BOT135/Lect20b.htm

The knowledge of magic mushrooms even spread to Hawai‘i, during the early 1960s. According to Dr. Mark Merlin, Professor of Biology, during the early 1960s, when the Peace Corp first began, some training was done in Hawai‘i. Apparently, some Peace Corp members were aware of magic mushrooms and knew that some species could be found on cow and horse dung. Although the mushrooms were probably present, in Hawai‘i, for as long as horses and cows have been here, prior to the arrival of the Peace Corp, knowledge of the mushroom's psychoactive properties was not known.

 

[pharmakos]

hmmmm upon further investigation, the mushrooms in nick drake's hand are supposedly fly agaric

the rest of my post holds up, tho =p

 

[Fire&Water]

hippie cavemen injested shrooms"...

 

[pharmakos]

documented intentional Psilocybin mushroom use from 1914 http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=8465

edit -- full text and scans from the original Science magazine article are here http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=93696

 

[pharmakos]

Prove it. The Central American mushroom culture was not first partaken upon by a honkey until Gordon Wasson in mid 50s. There is no evidence of magic mushroom use outside Central America, ever by white guys until Gordon Wasson. If you know differently, cite your source man.

Richard Evans Schultes went to Oaxaca about 20 years before Wasson and partook in a Teonanacatl ritual. plenty of sources if you Google it, I'm sure -- I first read about it in my copy of Plants of the Gods, co-authored by Albert Hofmann and Schultes (my copy is currently on loan or I would type out the section)

--------------------

getting off-topic, but i love sharing this story from Book 1 of PiHKAL about Schultes:

Cludio Naranjo, a psychiatrist-anthropologist who had made his way years bedore through South American jungles to discover the Ayahuasca vine, gave a passionate talk which transmitted the excitement he felt about the jungle images of Ayahuasca-induced intoxication. In his experience, and in the experience of his patients, according to Claudio, the taking of plant extracts that contained harmaline invariably brought about visions of jaguars and other flora and fauna associated with the jungle in which the vine grew.

Also at the meeting was the well-known and respected botanist, Richard E. Schultes of Harvard, and I had heard from him that he had never experienced these particular types of visual images with Ayahuasca.

I had the pleasure of introducing them, and mentioned their common interest. Claudio opened the conversation:

"What do you think about the jaguars?"

"What jaguars?"

A small silence.

"Are you personally familiar with authentic Banistriopsis caapi?" asked Claudio, his voice slightly strained.

"Richard looked at him closely. "I was the one who assigned it its name."

Claudio went on. "Have you ever taken the plant decoction itself?"

"Perhaps fifteen times."

"And never jaguars?"

"Sorry, only wiggly lines."

Claudio turned away. To my knowledge, they have not talked since.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Richard Evans Schultes went to Oaxaca about 20 years before Wasson and partook in a Teonanacatl ritual. plenty of sources if you Google it, I'm sure -- I first read about it in my copy of Plants of the Gods, co-authored by Albert Hofmann and Schultes (my copy is currently on loan or I would type out the section)

Thank you for the references. First time I heard the Hawaii story. I'll take a single unsubstaianted story for what it is worth. I bet is was awesome to trip in Hawaii during that time.

Re the other link...Schultes discovered the modern rituals and studied them but never partook.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/mushroom_pioneers/mushroom_pioneers8.shtml

According to Schultes (1969), "so few mushrooms were gathered, because of the unusually dry season, that it was not possible for me to ingest them experimentally; all were needed as voucher herbarium specimens."

 

[pharmakos]

edit -- didn't see MGS's ^^ post before i made this one due to simultaneous posting. thanks MGS.

No he didn't. I have correspondence between the two gentlemen taken from the Gordon Wasson Archive to back-up my assertion. What's the basis for yours?
There are no known civilizations or tribes in South America for which any historical evidence of mushroom use has been presented. The mushroom stones were found in Guatemala - Central America. PriestTheyCalledHim, what is the basis for you claim of the historical use of mushrooms in South America? There is none.

i would be really interested to see the Wasson/Schultes correspondence if its available online. like i said in my post above, my info was recalled from reading Schultes/Hofmann's book "The Plants of the Gods." unfortunately, i don't have my copy on hand, and i have been unable to find the full text online.

Schultes' trip to Oaxaca in the late 30's/early 40's is well documented --

Schultes, R. E. 1939. The identification of Teonanácatl, a narcotic basidiomycete of the Aztecs. Botanical Museum Leaflets of Harvard 7 (3): 37-54. February 21; and Schultes, R. E. 1940. Teonanácatl: The narcotic mushroom of the Aztecs. American Anthropologist 42: 429-443.

perhaps he did not actually partake then, but he is well known for partaking in rituals with South American tribes a couple decades later.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Indeed. Ayahuasca, yopo, pedro, and others.

 

[Ismene]

Study history, Pre-Columbian Meso-American and South American cultures

I've forgotten more about history than you'll ever know. If you even dream you know more about history than me you better wake up and apologise.

Their use was not limited to only Mexico or the Aztec tribe

Says who?

yes hippies did take mushrooms in the 60s and early 70s.

No they didn't.

 

[DrunkardsDream]

Love how people are still arguing about this.. Hippies did take fucking mushrooms, period. Everyone's getting so argumentative over a stupid topic with a clear answer. Love the one answer. YOU HAD TO GO ALL THE WAY TO MEXICO SO PEOPLE DIDN'T DO IT.
Oh shit, didn't know that if you had to go to another country to get a drug you wouldn't do it… hmm /grabs popcorn

Exactly certain replies are hilarious like the one about how somebody "forgot" history and thinks that hippies didn't take mushrooms since you had to go to Mexico! As are the replies that "OMGWTFBBQ!!1 THEY WERE ONLY USED IN THE COUNTRY OF MEXICO ONLY, YOU HAD TO GO THERE TO USE THEM, AND NOT IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY AT ALL!!!" despite the fact that mushrooms have been used in ceremonies by native people in many central and South American countries for thousands of years since their hallucinogenic properties have always been well known by those people. So are the replies from people who were not even around in the 60s or 70s or who want documented sources as though we're writing a college essay. 8)

 

[DrunkardsDream]

Richard Evans Schultes went to Oaxaca about 20 years before Wasson and partook in a Teonanacatl ritual. plenty of sources if you Google it, I'm sure -- I first read about it in my copy of Plants of the Gods, co-authored by Albert Hofmann and Schultes (my copy is currently on loan or I would type out the section)

--------------------

getting off-topic, but i love sharing this story from Book 1 of PiHKAL about Schultes:

Cludio Naranjo, a psychiatrist-anthropologist who had made his way years bedore through South American jungles to discover the Ayahuasca vine, gave a passionate talk which transmitted the excitement he felt about the jungle images of Ayahuasca-induced intoxication. In his experience, and in the experience of his patients, according to Claudio, the taking of plant extracts that contained harmaline invariably brought about visions of jaguars and other flora and fauna associated with the jungle in which the vine grew.

Also at the meeting was the well-known and respected botanist, Richard E. Schultes of Harvard, and I had heard from him that he had never experienced these particular types of visual images with Ayahuasca.

I had the pleasure of introducing them, and mentioned their common interest. Claudio opened the conversation:

"What do you think about the jaguars?"

"What jaguars?"

A small silence.

"Are you personally familiar with authentic Banistriopsis caapi?" asked Claudio, his voice slightly strained.

"Richard looked at him closely. "I was the one who assigned it its name."

Claudio went on. "Have you ever taken the plant decoction itself?"

"Perhaps fifteen times."

"And never jaguars?"

"Sorry, only wiggly lines."

Claudio turned away. To my knowledge, they have not talked since.

Claudio Naranjo is yet another example of somebody who fried his brain from taking too many drugs. In his flawed mind if you don't see Jaguars while taking Ayahuasca then you're not really experiencing the drug despite how RES had taken Ayahuasca albeit not as many times as Claudio and his brain didn't get fried like Naranjo's did or like the McKenna brothers and Timothy Leary.

 

[gremlin moon]

My mom was an art student in San Miguel Allende for a year in the 60s and that is the only place she had done mushrooms. While I doubt the complete veracity of this story when she told it to me. . .I had a friend who was sleeping over when I was a teenager and we were tripping (unbeknownst to my parents) and she comes downstairs at 3am and says she couldn't sleep and proceeds to tell us that there is a mountain in Mexico hours away from where she went to art school and that you can take as many mushrooms you wish on that mountain but that the people protecting the mountain would not let you take any away with you. My friend almost lost his mind lol -- and I was proud of my mom for messing with us like that!!!!

OT: My first GD show was Vince's first GD show. I was getting some doses before the show -- obviously very young -- and the person says is, "$2 dollars a dose okay?" They asked it in such a concerned way that if that was too much he would have dosed us for free. Now that is an evangelist.

Claudio Naranjio, IMHO, brought ibogane on the global map. However he talked about a vision of his father roasting him on a spit over a fire... as someone who owns several CN's books (for good or ill) I am on the DrunkardsDream side of things. Judging by the location of Vince's first show I am partial to Shultze in that he helped my town's industry greatly.

 

[Ismene]

Exactly certain replies are hilarious like the one about how somebody "forgot" history and thinks that hippies didn't take mushrooms since you had to go to Mexico!

The guy you're talking about is me drunkard, and I beleive you've already said this once.

despite the fact that mushrooms have been used in ceremonies by native people in many central and South American countries for thousands of years

No, not "many". A "few" in central Mexico. And even in these cultures mushroom use wasn't widespread in the community - you read about Maria Sabina and she was the only woman in the whole village taking mushrooms and she wasn't taking it like a hippie, she was taking it almost exclusively as an aid to diagnosing disease.

As priest always says - study history :D

 

[DrunkardsDream]

The guy you're talking about is me drunkard, and I beleive you've already said this once.

despite the fact that mushrooms have been used in ceremonies by native people in many central and South American countries for thousands of years

No, not "many". A "few" in central Mexico. And even in these cultures mushroom use wasn't widespread in the community - you read about Maria Sabina and she was the only woman in the whole village taking mushrooms and she wasn't taking it like a hippie, she was taking it almost exclusively as an aid to diagnosing disease.

As priest always says - study history :D

Why do you assume that mushrooms were only used in Mexico and only by a few people? They were not they have been used by native people in Peru, Colombia, Guatemala, and other countries for thousands of years. I have been to Peru and the native people there told me they've been using mushrooms for thousands of years.