Tryptamines did hippies take shrooms?

[DrunkardsDream]

You said my initial post was false. Which it was not.

Actually what I said was wrong with your first post is how you assume that mainly only deadheads are the majority of people into psychedelics and it was like this decades ago.

You were not around in the 60s or 70s when psychedelics went mainstream and all sort of people that I mentioned before who were not deadheads from professionals, teachers/college professors, doctors/lawyers, blue collar workers, students, and especially highschool and college students, bisexual and gay men, and even people who were single and in relationships tried psychedelics or used them during these decades.

It's also been like this with them in the 80s, 90s, early 00s, and today with how people use all sort of psychedelic research chems.

 

[DrunkardsDream]

it always amazes me that MDA and the like never really caught on back then the way ecstasy did in the 80s. i have come across a couple older dudes that took "mud" in the 70s and said it that it was almost exactly like the MDMA available today, from what i understand MDA was going around in the hippie scenes back then under that name.

MDA was VERY popular in the 70s and early 80s mainly among bisexual and gay men who would take it at discos or before going out dancing, or as a sex drug.

 

[kidklmx]

Yeah seems like the MDMA hype of the 80s-90s was just that, hype. IIRC Shulgin was noted about MDMA by a student from his research group who had used it. It was definitely being used by those knowledgeable about drugs back then, same goes for aET and surely some other entactogens. The RC scene of back then was pretty interesting :D

 

[Livinginthealps]

Actually what I said was wrong with your first post is how you assume that mainly only deadheads are the majority of people into psychedelics and it was like this decades ago.

You were not around in the 60s or 70s when psychedelics went mainstream and all sort of people that I mentioned before who were not deadheads from professionals, teachers/college professors, doctors/lawyers, blue collar workers, students, and especially highschool and college students, bisexual and gay men, and even people who were single and in relationships tried psychedelics or used them during these decades.

It's also been like this with them in the 80s, 90s, early 00s, and today with how people use all sort of psychedelic research chems.

No, once again your wrong. I chose to speak about dead heads in particular. Did I ever say, deadheads were the only ones? Of course, they were not. In the 60's and 70's there were all sorts of social circles and backgrounds using psychedelic drugs. You just chose to assume I believe only dead heads use psychedelics. That would be ignorant on my end. Your right I was NOT alive in the 60's or the 70's for that matter. But, that really doesn't matter.... As I said before, my family and friends were around and I have had the pleasure of knowing many people heavily involved in the counterculture. Some were street kids, others had college degrees already and one was a psychologist by the early 70's. I have heard a wide variety of first hand experiences from that generation.

This back and forth is pointless. Try reading and understanding someones initial post before being rude.

 

[phactor]

Really no such thing as a "hippie" anymore, but back in the 60s they used all sorts of drugs and not just pyschs.

If you go to a festival or a concert today where self proclaimed "hippies" go to, you will also find every substance available. I myself have been to tons of shows and festivals and took anything and everything under the sun in my day. This ended up causing me problems later. To be honest, MDMA was my favorite concert drug and there was lots of good clean MDMA around in the late 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Ismene]

Yup, my mother was one of them.

TBPH, as soon as the knowledge of a substance that would get you high got around, people started taking them. Not just mycologists in the 60's, but anyone who had heard of magic mushies wanted to try them and found ways to get them.

Not many tho. Mushroom use among people today is pretty small - and we have countless books and the internet to help us. You imagine being a hippie back in the 60s going out to pick a magic mushroom - with next to no knowledge or pictures of them - knowing that if you got it wrong you would die in agony 4 days later. I can't see that being wildly popular.

 

[kidklmx]

How about Amanitas? At least over here in Europe they've been used long before pop culture was a thing by druidic cults, etc. Must've been some hippies using that :D

 

[WeeksendinginY]

Funny you should mention that medication: I just recently acquired some sumatriptan. Is the stuff appreciably psychoactive? I could find nothing suggesting that it could be, aside from Wikipedia's description of the chemical.

I don't know how you acquired it, but sumatriptan has no psychoactive effects. Being almost identical in chemical structure to psilocybin means just that, almost. In organic chemistry tweaking just one molecule can completely alter a chemical's effects.

The 'triptan' drugs for migraines seem to be bastardized versions of their natural base chemicals. I can only imagine the fuckers tweaking psilocybin into some bullshit sumatriptan. It's not like hardly anyone gets migraines or cluster headaches but the idea is 'hey, any drug that makes the patient feel good shouldn't be used.' Or 'let's take it and try to alter it so no one feels good from it.' Then the shit chemicals they produce end up causing long term side effects.

Last I heard the FDA approved Paxil for menopausal women.

I can't but think there's something wrong with this picture.

 

[infantannihilator]

you mean tweaking just one atom

 

[WeeksendinginY]

Thanks, you know chemistry wasn't ever a subject I did well in. I couldn't learn the math of it in high school.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Yeah seems like the MDMA hype of the 80s-90s was just that, hype. IIRC Shulgin was noted about MDMA by a student from his research group who had used it. It was definitely being used by those knowledgeable about drugs back then, same goes for aET and surely some other entactogens. The RC scene of back then was pretty interesting :D

"RC scene" back when? In the mid 80s? As you note, a-ET was sold in Denver for a while as an MDMA substitute...and I think 5-MeO-DMT and DPT were available from chemical supply places but you must have some information I've never read before....I really didn't know there was a "RC scene." What was the scene like? What sort of people were in the scene, what sort of "RCs" did they eat?

 

[exists]

sumatriptan has no psychoactive effects.

[OT]
A little more searching gives only a few anecdotal reports of sumatriptan's possible psychoactivity, with very few indicating that it might be psychedelic. There's probably a way to alter it, but most people consider the prospect too laborious compared to just getting DMT-containing plants and performing an extraction.
[/OT]

 

[WeeksendinginY]

Exists, while having an episodic cluster headache I've experienced psilocybin like body symptoms, compounded by aural light effects and sound/pain. The light effects around pinpoint lights like candles and street lights are very reminiscent of 'coming up' on a moderate dose of psilocybin. The pain totally negates any of the possibility of it being interesting though. It is very possible triptans, or more possible ergotamine, evoke very minimal but similar effects.

 

[kidklmx]

"RC scene" back when? In the mid 80s? As you note, a-ET was sold in Denver for a while as an MDMA substitute...and I think 5-MeO-DMT and DPT were available from chemical supply places but you must have some information I've never read before....I really didn't know there was a "RC scene." What was the scene like? What sort of people were in the scene, what sort of "RCs" did they eat?

Well the hippy scene of the early 60s was basically the RC scene. Wasn't called RCs back then but you directly bought a new and under researched chemical from a company. [<-You know this, why are you getting all worked up? :D] Not really an RC scene no, but I meant the chemicals that were going around that were interesting.

MDMA was being used for a while already; 4-HO-DET and it's phosphoroxy ester were also synthesized so they must have been used; pretty sure some of the TiHKAL/PiHKAL chemicals were also being used by people before those books were released. Don't forget that Shulgin learned about quite a few chemicals through his research group, pretty good indication that there were people trying out novel chemicals

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Where do you get your information again? I hear a lot of conjecture on your part and I think you have the concept of linear time mixed up. MDMA was not discovered to be active until the mid 70s when Shulgin first published about it. There was no MDMA in the '60s......PERIOD. 4-HO-DET and the phosphate ester were manufactured by Sandoz for a short while in the early 60s. It dissapeared and did not reappear until early 2001. If you have information to the contrary please cite it.

I don't think I am worked up at all, very calm, but even if I were.....I definitely have a pet peeve when people use conjecture to make statements of fact. And what chemicals do you speak of that Shulgin learned of from others? Shulgin was the only person synthesizing psychedelics besides Sandoz. I forget who first made DMT in the 30s but it wasn't known to be active until the mid 50s when it was found in magic plants...then DET and DPT were made and that was the end of synthetic psychedelics until Shulgin started his mission. Remember everything was published....the fact that things were published is how I know you either are privy to information NO ONE ELSE has...of you are making stuff up as you go. Remember, the only other known psychedelic chemist in the 60s was Owsley...he is the one who read of DOM in a paper Shulgin published and subsequently distributed it as "STP." If there were others...who were they? And how do you know about them?

In the mid to late 70s, Michael Valentine and a small handful of other researchers started publishing, pretty sure Valentine cowrote a paper with Shulgin on DIPT analogues in 1977. Other than that...were were no psychedelic chemists in the 60s and 70s that have ever come forward. Remember Shulgin was contracted by the DEA to analyze samples seized that could not be identified. Of anyone out there...he is the one who knows 'what was going around.'

I know sometime in the mid 70s, PMA was found as a black market drug.....and certainly up to the mid 60s you could order MDA, ibogaine, and mescaline from chemical supply houses...but to suggest that were 'chemicals going around that were interesting' is nothing more than conjecture....As far as I can tell based on a lifetime of research...If I am wrong, I will happily admit it but you must cite a source for your information.

Edit: Even the a-MT that Kesey used was stolen from whatever US research facility was using it at the time. From all available literature, the Pranksters were the only people who got a-MT back then. I am sure you could order it from a chemical supply house but nobody seemed to until perhaps the mid 80s...more likely the 90s.

Well the hippy scene of the early 60s was basically the RC scene. Wasn't called RCs back then but you directly bought a new and under researched chemical from a company. [<-You know this, why are you getting all worked up? :D] Not really an RC scene no, but I meant the chemicals that were going around that were interesting.

MDMA was being used for a while already; 4-HO-DET and it's phosphoroxy ester were also synthesized so they must have been used; pretty sure some of the TiHKAL/PiHKAL chemicals were also being used by people before those books were released. Don't forget that Shulgin learned about quite a few chemicals through his research group, pretty good indication that there were people trying out novel chemicals

 

[kidklmx]

I'm not saying there was an extensive catalogue of chemicals going around in the 60s (you're very much right on that front), but the term "hippies" is definitely not limited to that time. Shulgin was noted about MDMA in 1976, but people had been using it for a (little? I have no numbers) while already. That alone tells me that people were toying around with chemicals, even if it wasn't published or widely known. All that beautiful research must come from something right?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Shulgin was noted about MDMA in 1976, but people had been using it for a (little? I have no numbers) while already.

Look man, I mean this with all the love in the world......where do you get that info from? What people? Shulgin is called the 'Godfather' of MDMA for a reason. I have lent out PIHKAL so I can't look up the story but it did not include anything about 'people' using MDMA prior to his publication. Look, there is enough misinformation already out there...I'm just doing my part to prevent more. I am happy to be wrong, admit I am wrong, etc....but you are going to need to cite a source that 'people' had been using MDMA prior to 1976 or otherwise that statement is not supported by history.

 

[kidklmx]

But Shulgin resynthesized it in 1976 at the suggestion of a former student. (He has never found out how she heard about it.)

I did find this, but I honestly can't remember where I got that it has been used before though. Conjecture as it may be, the quote at least implies that MDMA was used before that time (I mean, why would the girl from his group suggest he synthesize it for no reason?)

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Thanks! See that's all I wanted....just some idea of where the information came from. Yeah certainly possible MDMA had been used before Shulgin but there is no published accounts of that. Anything is possible isn't it but I imagine we will never know for sure. As for the rest....I'd love to entertain stories of a thriving RC market in 1967 with 4-Ho-DET and all kinds of other things but recorded history says it ain't so.


PS...being that MDA was well known and with the whole amp/methamp relationship...it seems logical even if no one had used MDMA, it would be a logical thing to try. Back then, I don't believe any N-methyl PEAs were known except perhaps N-methyl DOM and perhaps N-methyl-TMA....but MDA was from the start known to be a 'different' kind of psychedelic, along with MMDA. No PIHKAL here to check.

I did find this, but I honestly can't remember where I got that it has been used before though. Conjecture as it may be, the quote at least implies that MDMA was used before that time (I mean, why would the girl from his group suggest he synthesize it for no reason?)

 

[kidklmx]

Seeing as he was already researching MDA analogs more than 10 years before with MMDA, I'm surprised he didn't stumble upon (or think of) MDMA in the 60s.