Why Do We Treat Heroin Addicts Like They Deserve to Die?

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^It was funny the first time.

 

[ro4eva]

Talk about abstract

Yeah lets let addicts make the law on their DOC

Abso-fucking-lutely! Let us be part of a better solution than what we currently have. Or - leave us the hell alone and mind your own damn business! For far too long, we've been dictated to by others (who have zero first hand experience regarding heroin/opiate addiction) how we should live our lives. They act like they know us better than we know ourselves. What a joke. What incredibly narrow-minded individuals we have among us.

Even though we're all wired differently, even though we've lived very different lives, even though some of us have experienced a lot more trauma than others - apparently (to these people, these so-called experts) "this" is the way we all should live our lives. And "this" is how we all should react to adversity. And "this" (and only "this" and nothing else) is what it means to be normal. It kinda feels like high school all over again. You know... the part about not fitting in because you're not skipping classes, you look like a nerd, and you talk funny.

Apparently it don't matter if one of us grew up in a wealthy home and received all the support we'd ever need, and the other grew up in a violent ghetto with only one parent, without a father or mother to provide him with the guidance only they as parents can bestow upon their son. IME, society's opinion is that the rich kid and the poor kid should both see things the same, "normal" way. I'm willing to bet chances are that the rich kid will no doubt have his first car and college paid for. It is likely that he'll go on to become an educated, and possibly arrogant individual with a really high horse.

As for the poor kid - he probably already has a criminal record, busted for felony possession of a few ecstasy tablets due to racial profiling from a piece of shit cop trying to fill his quota. Whatever money he has, he buys/uses mdma to try to numb himself from all the shit he's had to deal with. And now, one of the very few opportunities he's ever had is gone as he no longer can qualify for a student loan for college. And his single parent sure as hell can't afford to pay for it. She has to work a lot of OT just barely to be able to put food on the table and pay rent. Oh, and he doesn't have a car, or a bike (because it was stolen), but instead either walks to school and back, or on a good day when he has some spare change, he can take the bus. With his recently updated rap sheet, the only legit job he could get is likely to be working at McDonald's for minimum wage. So he'll eventually end up turning to dealing. And later on, this will most likely cost him either his freedom, or his life. I understand and accept the fact that life isn't fair, but this is a fucking tragedy.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't bitter, but rather frustrated. Because some folks are so bloody two-dimensional that they appear to not even think, to not take into consideration not "why the addiction" but rather "why the pain" before they spew their hate filled messages for us online. Because a couple of doctors of whom I was a patient for years knew that I had a serious smoking habit, yet treated me with dignity and respect, and seemingly didn't think twice about prescribing me copious amounts of Percocet, Dilaudid, and OxyContin. But once one of them received a copy of what was found in my urine at the hospital a few years back (they found mdma), the difference in the doctor-patient relationship we shared was like night and day.

Is it a coincidence that the only two doctors who have never judged me for my opiate dependence used to shoot themselves with morphine and hydromorphone for several years in an attempt to numb their own pain? I have much respect for them. Even when I'm in severe pain, even though they know that I'm currently on methadone, they still prescribe me narcotics. And would you believe it if I told you that I actually always used only the indicated dosages? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't. Today's society has been taught from the time we were children to say no to drugs, to not trust addicts, to view us as a nuisance, an itch that needs to be scratched until it goes away for good.

For far too long, we've been routinely locked up by law enforcement for non-violent possession without intent to distribute. The average sentence in the US for a first time non-violent drug offender convicted under the federal mandatory minimum sentencing laws is now longer than the average sentence for rape, child molestation, bank robbery and manslaughter! You really think prison will magically cure us of craving the drug? If your answer is yes, then I seriously doubt you intimately know heroin (or any other strong opioid) addiction. We're robbed of any freedom we have left and forced to detox without any remorse, nor any support - as if we somehow owe society a debt. And for what? Because we want to make ourselves feel better?! Thanks a lot for adding insult to injury. You can bet that once we're released, we'll inevitably go back to using.

I can vouch for the government on this one, sorry

Right, of course of you are.

 

[Lady Codone]

Outlawing needle exchange and inhibiting access to naloxone is just cruel. The current research chemical "epidemic" is a direct outgrowth of prohibition of safer substances. Abstinence-only drug education is as worthless as abstinence-only sex education. Society tells addicts they deserve to die or rot in prison while alcoholics are free to publicly kill themselves with toxic ethanol (a Group I carcinogen, by the way). More proof that the drug war is not about saving lives. It's about the almighty dollar.

Think of all the profiteers that would lose out by legalizing drugs: the prison-industrial complex, big pharma, drug test manufacturers, alcohol and tobacco companies, the DEA, police task forces that target low-level drug users, banks like Wachovia that laundered trillions of dollars in drug money, and the list goes on...


Like the use of oil and natural gas, the drug war will continue because the people in power have too much to lose. Nevermind the jobs that could be created or the tax revenue these drugs would bring; it's all about protecting the empire.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Clearly you don't understand the concept of society.

Your post contains several ironies, but judging by its tone, I don't think you care to learn them.

No one's going to listen to you if you can't make a point without crying/shouting it.

What a tirade.

Go ahead and be angry.

You are bitter. And sarcastic.

If you're going to scream at someone, scream at someone who is actually ignorant.

 

[ro4eva]

Clearly you don't understand the concept of society.

You're wrong. I understand the western society I contribute to five to six days per week all too well, and the role in which religion, greed, lust for power, and money have all played in influencing what is acknowledged as a "normal" lifestyle, and also what is considered to be abnormal, taboo, culture shock, take your pick. We may go around chanting that we're free, but at best, it's a part-time democracy (last I checked, in a democratic society, everyone's opinion counts in relation to what personally affects their lives) and it reeks of capitalism. And if capitalist values are what you hold dear, then that's unfortunate for others.

Your post contains several ironies, but judging by its tone, I don't think you care to learn them.

I love to learn, so please, what's so ironic about my post?

No one's going to listen to you if you can't make a point without crying/shouting it.

I'm passionate about what I believe should be mine, and everybody's freedom of choice, and emotion does get the best of me at times, I admit.

What a tirade.

Go ahead and be angry.

Grrrr?

You are bitter. And sarcastic.

If you're going to scream at someone, scream at someone who is actually ignorant.

Hey now, I feel that I did not reply to your post in a derogatory manner. No personal attacks, and no threats. Admittedly I was somewhat rude, so I apologize about that.

Again though, I feel very strongly about my right to freedom of choice, as long as that choice does not physically harm another human being. Choosing to use heroin (or another strong opioid) in my home, or out in public has never caused me to hurt anyone, and I doubt it ever will. Even going cold turkey (countless times) has never caused me to harm anyone. This is my way of unwinding after a hard day's work. I cannot tolerate weed any longer, or I wouldn't have switched. Alcohol brings about severe drug seeking behavior, therefore I don't drink. So, for now, it's opioids for me. Hopefully one day people will learn to accept that and they will stop harassing me and talking shit behind my back. Some of things I hear are rather nasty and uncalled for.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I'll respond later in full.


This is to acknowledge that I have received your response.

 

[opi8]

^It was funny the first time.

Ah good, you get it.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^What, that you won't stop pestering me until I acknowledge your existence?

The irony mostly lies in various radical-isms which you so explicitly deride. And a straw man argument (^I did lol at that).

Take introduction to sociology then get back to me. Seriously. You'd probably do well anyways.

I'll be honest: I'm probably not going to have a big discussion about this any time soon because I don't have the mental or physical energy; and this warrants a big discussion. I'm currently going through my own drug withdrawal; believe it or not, withdrawal from several drugs at once.

My experience includes heavy opiate withdrawal...at age twelve. Not going into the other trauma I experienced. Its depressing, and as I said I'm very sick already.

Capitalism is woefully outdated, and dis-proven as effective in practice.

blah blah blah

 

[ro4eva]

^ I am sincerely sorry that you're going through withdrawals. I don't know if you're going through them because you don't have a choice in the matter, or that you wanna rid yourself of them for good? But if it were up to me, I'd offer you something to mend any discomfort you may be feeling (and try to wean you off if you want to get off).

Human suffering in general is something which doesn't sit right with me, particularly when a person is suffering needlessly. It doesn't matter if we're complete strangers. And if you're in distress due to something I can relate to (such as drug withdrawal) - again, if there was something I could do to help ease the misery, I wouldn't think twice. Unfortunately we probably live a long distance from each other.

Take introduction to sociology then get back to me. Seriously. You'd probably do well anyways.

I will attempt to do just that during my spare time.

Capitalism is woefully outdated, and dis-proven as effective in practice.

I'm glad you feel that way. I think it's time we try to stop that rich-poor gap from widening.

P.S. - I suppose I stand corrected regarding you not knowing squat about opiate addiction and/or dependency. And I appreciate you sharing that difficult past time of your life.

 

[RedRum OG]

Stupid people always need a way to prove to themselves that they are superior to someone

And stupid people are the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^ I am sincerely sorry that you're going through withdrawals. I don't know if you're going through them because you don't have a choice in the matter, or that you wanna rid yourself of them for good? But if it were up to me, I'd offer you something to mend any discomfort you may be feeling (and try to wean you off if you want to get off).

Human suffering in general is something which doesn't sit right with me, particularly when a person is suffering needlessly. It doesn't matter if we're complete strangers. And if you're in distress due to something I can relate to (such as drug withdrawal) - again, if there was something I could do to help ease the misery, I wouldn't think twice. Unfortunately we probably live a long distance from each other.



I will attempt to do just that during my spare time.



I'm glad you feel that way. I think it's time we try to stop that rich-poor gap from widening.

P.S. - I suppose I stand corrected regarding you not knowing squat about opiate addiction and/or dependency. And I appreciate you sharing that difficult past time of your life.

First of all I'd like to remark that its good we can have decent conversation on the matter. As you can see, there are users on this forum, such as the one above, who are full of nonsense, and probably are very sick, in need of care.

Thank you. I wouldn't want anyone to go through withdrawals. Sometimes, though, short-term pain is necessary to achieve a greater good.

I did it based on my own accord because I saw myself slipping away - drugs being my face and general motive for life. It was for the best; I think people too often rely on others when in pain, whereas the only person who can really and truly be trusted is the self.

Ahhh, so you're a humanist! Kudos!

Yeah the wealth disparity has gotten out of hand.

 

[ro4eva]

First of all I'd like to remark that its good we can have decent conversation on the matter.

I decided to have another look at my previous post, which I could have (should have) worded more calmly, and I think you're right about parts of it being ironic. For example, I wrote about non-violent drug users (including myself) being punished unfairly and unjust, yet there I was lashing out, screaming rather voilently about it.

That being said, the point I was trying to make with that post (just for closure) is that, at least from what I've experienced, and using an incident which happened to me about 4 years ago as an example - Let us postulate that I am a heroin addict who has been locked up for non-violent possession, and later that day (or approximately 20 hours since my last fix) I'm caught in the grips of an agonizing acute opiate withdrawal. Here I am writhing on the floor, begging for any medical attention, yet all I hear in return from everyone else present is laughter, or anger (people telling me to "shut up and stop being a pussy, or else...") I seriously doubt any of these agitators have ever personally experienced acute opiate withdrawal. This past event in my life, coupled with many others - some of which there was a doctor present - have added up, and have compelled me to conclude that, unless they've "been there, done that," then I feel they don't have the proper experience and expertise necessary to form a well-rounded, medically acceptable observation about just how distressed they think I (or anyone else who's had to kick the habit) am truly feeling.

In other words, imo, nothing beats the actual experience when it comes to understanding others' struggles, pain and suffering.

I'm curious about how you would react if a medical expert who has never touched the drugs you are currently detoxing from, was to come to you and tell you that he knows precisely how you feel, that you're not as sick as you claim, that you're borderline malingering, and to drop the act. Am I to assume you wouldn't be upset by this? In truth, I had this exact scenario play out about 8 years ago when I was hospitalized due to methamphetamine withdrawal. I used to be big into stimulants many years ago. Anyways, once he began to shout at me to "get up, I know you're not feeling this ill," you'd think I'd be upset, but I was shocked more than anything. I remember thinking to myself, "Who does this asshole think he is?!"

As you can see, there are users on this forum, such as the one above, who are full of nonsense, and probably are very sick, in need of care.

Don't mind him. I just think he's upset because he sees you as unwilling to consider his views, which he's probably formed due to years of having to deal with a lot of shit.

I did it based on my own accord because I saw myself slipping away - drugs being my face and general motive for life. It was for the best; I think people too often rely on others when in pain, whereas the only person who can really and truly be trusted is the self.

Well I truly hope you are able to find happiness without drugs. Believe it or not - that's my long term goal, if I manage to make it.

Ahhh, so you're a humanist! Kudos!

I suppose. I believe a human life is priceless. We all only get one chance at this. And to have it cut short by someone else is despicable. To not have it cut short by anything else (e.g. drug overdose) is something which should be considered top priority (harm reduction, IMO, works well for this). I'm very proud and relieved of the fact that I was able to save two friends' lives this way. And deeply saddened because I was not able to save another - one of my best friends, may he rest in peace (he was only 19 - incredibly tragic).

Yeah the wealth disparity has gotten out of hand.

Sad how greedy some people can be, huh?

 

[Serotonin101]

I've always viewed drugs themselves as holy Grails for humanity. Some of the pain (physical and emotional) is so powerful we would pay any dollar value to just take it away for a little bit. To the dope man, when I buy $100 of heroin, to him its just $100, but to me at that moment, the relief from my burdens is priceless. Its putting a monetary value on a priceless reward from using drugs (relief). I was able to function using heroin daily. I was full time university student, working part time, a social life, good family life, etc. My back and knee pain was gone, my emotional black holes vanished, I was happy... sadly society doesnt view things the same way. I had to get clean for me to meld with "them". Almost 18 months clean.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Cheers, Numbs

ro4eva,

That actually happened? Holy Christ. Can't imagine man. I've gone through opiate withdrawal, but not like that.

You're right of course: no one experiences your pain but you, so they really shouldn't judge.

Sounds like you've had a slew of bad luck with inexperienced/ignorant doctors. Sorry about that.

Well if there was a chance of me considering his views, its gone, very much so.

Idk man, its not so much drugs that I don't want, its specific ones haha. I don't want to be taking drugs illegally; I want to make sure I know how much of a drug I'm taking; I don't want a drug to make me feel zombified or the like; there must be more I just can't think of it now.

 

[hazednod]

Hello bluelight, i have been browsing this page for about 4 years on and off for various reasons ( harm reduction at first and later tips for quitting heroin). I have never registered as i always thought i lacked experience/knowledge when compared to the majority of the BL community but this post made me forget about this

I have been reading some posts in the first page of this thread and i cant help but say that i have found it immensly easier for me to quit opiods and cope with the withdrawals while on suboxone but found it unbearable to do with street heroin

As for reasons, i have no idea why but i have however had 2 ideas that have been constantly on my mind from the day i first quit with suboxone. First i will explain my tactic of sobering up. I slowly decrease the quatity of the dose as the doctor reccomends until i get to 2mg a day then i stop cold turkey from then on. The reason for this is because everytime i gradually come off suboxone slowly i relapse within a few days/weeks. Quitting cold turkey in my final weeks of suboxone makes me absolutely hate and dread the drug that got me in that pain at least for a few months which i hope will change to forever by time. Its kind of a no pain no gain mentality. When i tried to do this with heroin the withdrawal was hell even though i was rationing it to very small doses each day.

The first thing i thought of was that because suboxone was a synthetic drug maybe it wasnt that harsh withdrawal wise when compared to heroin. This theory i am not so sure about myself and i hope i am not making a complete idiot of myself. Hah

The second thing which for me makes sense in a way is that the pleasure i used to get from using was not only limited to the high but also the rollercoaster of emotions you get prior to using while preparing the drug. So by self medicating with street heroin the administration of the drug remained the same. On the other hand when i came to going cold turkey with subs the rush i used to get from using needles was long forgotten for the time being.

I hope this made sense to some of you or even relate to this idea.
P.S hope my english is ok as it is not my first language

 

[HolyShitLifeSucks]

I have never been addicted to opiates, but the withdrawals described in the previous comments are reminiscent of my attempt to stop my Sertraline dependence(Zoloft). I suppose I would lie, cheat, and steal to avoid that full body/mental hell that heroin users might experience...(I tell you the truth, every time I tried too stop, it was an indescribable torment. Reached 3 months clean, but had to get back on the sertraline) Unfortunately, I never got the euphoria that opiate/diamorphine users get....then at least I could say the sertraline was "worth-it."

 

[Kindaclean]

Because people are naive and don't believe drugs are indiscriminate. Nobody knows what led people into this life, but childhood and parenting play a great part!
I was a heroin addict, but I never considered myself a junkie. Someone with no morals etc.
heroin is evil, evil in the way it will suck ANYBODY in.
I've done things I'm really not proud of, but I as a rational person would never dream of doing.
The drug changes people, but some of them come back and go on to help other addicts. And why not use your life experience? It makes us more knowledge than any PhDs. We know more about the "real world", so why not utilise - in my opinion - a professional?

From a junkies point of view, if they rob your house, it's not personal, it's somebody who feels there are no other options.
Then again there are people you can't help, so what do we do? I was offered help for years, I jumped through the hoops, but I didn't change until I personally changed and %100 wanted to quit. %90 of people are doing rehab to keep their wives, jobs, families. That won't work. One doubt in your mind and that grows. You NEED to be ready. And life is so much better clean. People talk to me with respect now. I earned that, I worked hard and gradually regained the trust of my loved ones.
I don't know if I'm off topic, I'm new to this site, but there are my thoughts.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Because people are naive and don't believe drugs are indiscriminate. Nobody knows what led people into this life, but childhood and parenting play a great part!
I was a heroin addict, but I never considered myself a junkie. Someone with no morals etc.
heroin is evil, evil in the way it will suck ANYBODY in.
I've done things I'm really not proud of, but I as a rational person would never dream of doing.
The drug changes people, but some of them come back and go on to help other addicts. And why not use your life experience? It makes us more knowledge than any PhDs. We know more about the "real world", so why not utilise - in my opinion - a professional?

From a junkies point of view, if they rob your house, it's not personal, it's somebody who feels there are no other options.
Then again there are people you can't help, so what do we do? I was offered help for years, I jumped through the hoops, but I didn't change until I personally changed and %100 wanted to quit. %90 of people are doing rehab to keep their wives, jobs, families. That won't work. One doubt in your mind and that grows. You NEED to be ready. And life is so much better clean. People talk to me with respect now. I earned that, I worked hard and gradually regained the trust of my loved ones.
I don't know if I'm off topic, I'm new to this site, but there are my thoughts.

How you, other people and myself define "clean" or "sober" probably differ.

Life might be so much better without using any opioid (or any other drugs for that matter, including caffeine, nicotine, etc) for you, and for others, but this doesn't mean it is for everyone. Quality of life is about much, much more than simply whether one is using or even dependent or addicted to any drug, including heroin. My quality of life is much more impacted by the way our society and the western world treat heroin and other illegal drugs in this day and age than how heroin or other drugs actually affect me.

I always thought it odd that people label heroin as evil. Heroin itself never hurt anyone. People tend to get hurt by making the choice to ingest heroin. Or by the laws and policy and stigma surrounding the choice to ingest heroin. But heroin itself is merely a substance, even if it has a reputation for being rather habit forming. To say it's evil implies that it will make people who choose to ingest it evil, or do evil thing. And that's a bit of narrow-minded bull, or to put it more mildly a poor assumption, a inaccurate misinterpretation.

Life expedience can make some people more knowledgeable people than some PhDs. Those PhDs don't deserve the recognition their degree implied however. While I believe people can learn the most from their own life experience as well as from that of others, that doesn't mean they will. Even when people use their life experience, they can misinterpret or misunderstand it very easily. Even "learning" from one's life experience doesn't necessarily leave one better off. If it was otherwise, we'd live in a much, much better world.

I have no interest in working hard to (re)gain the trust of (once) loved one who can't see the world for what it is - those who can only see thing through eyes clouded by hate.

 

[ro4eva]

...heroin is evil, evil in the way it will suck ANYBODY in.

I'm sure you have quite a story to tell about how your life may have revolved around the vicious cycle of trying to scrounge up enough money for a fix, trying to actually get your fix, fixing yourself up in order to not become violently ill, and then repeating that process.

I've been there myself, and I'm not proud either of some of the things I've resorted to in order to get that next fix.

Anyways, what I really wanted to say is that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, or on heroin in general.

I'm sure you had your reasons for choosing to use the stuff. You were probably trying to numb some sort of chronic pain, as I was.

Unfortunately, it's not a cheap habit, and the cost ends up catching up with most people.

I do not believe for one moment that heroin is the unconditional home-wrecker which we have been led to believe.

Countless people on Heroin Assisted Treatment (and MMT as well, if they respond to it in the first place) end up returning to a normal routine once they are on a stable dosage of the drug, and are not preoccupied with the usual "where and how am I gonna get my next fix" lifestyle which is sadly too common around the globe.

I'm not saying it's 100% risk free, but the war on drugs has made heroin use exponentially more dangerous than it was in the first place.

The drug changes people, but some of them come back and go on to help other addicts. And why not use your life experience? It makes us more knowledge than any PhDs. We know more about the "real world", so why not utilise - in my opinion - a professional?

I'm sure that actual "experts" in the field recognize the contribution we can make, however, it's politically incorrect of us to be considered "experts" in anything really. The war on drugs has caused the recreational (street) drug using minority to be regarded as animals, savages, scumbags, etc.

I feel the same way about prohibitionist majority.

 

[SB1981]

It is not even the heroin or other drug that's to blame at all here. It's the person and how they choose to live. I inject hard shit and take care of myself, clothes, hygiene, etc. Slamming in a disty setting is all that you see in the media. Injecting can be very nice and even arousing if done clean and serene.