Give addicts free foil to smoke heroin instead of injecting it, says government

trees_please said:
yes they are serious. but i will stand by my argument until you can show me one documented case of AIDS or Hepatitis where the vector was tinfoil smoked by the user(s).
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That was not a response for you... Now it is your turn...

Have you ever heard of toxic encephalopathy? It seems to be quite relevant to heroin smokers and foil...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_encephalopathy It doesn’t get better only worse...

People still forget about reduced lung function and lung infections... With shitty dope there is stuff you definitely don’t want to be heating....


I’d say stick to I.V. supplies and buy dollar store foil... And educate people...

Education is the key, not methods of administration...
 
trees_please said:
To be honest, im not sure how the action of sharing straws in ones nose is any different than children sharing straws at nursery school. The variable is obviously relevant here (i.e. hard drugs, juicy juice, etc.), but my point is; i dont think anyone worries about contracting blood borne viruses via smoking, etc.
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Not all viruses are created equally.....obviously.

Different viruses are more easily transmitted via different routes. As far as sharing injection equipment goes, it's much easier to contract Hepatitis C than it is to contract HIV through contaminated equipment. But, it's easier to contract HIV through sexual contact than to contract Hep C through sexual contact, the latter being quite uncommon. Hepatitis A is usually contracted by the fecal/oral route(gross) or through contaminated water or shellfish, although it's more difficult to contract Hep A through blood than either HIV or Hep C.

Hep C is one of the easiest viruses to contract through blood on blood contact and I've personally attended lectures when I was in rehab in recent years that informed us that Hep C in particular is transmitted through "snorting straws" a lot more easily than previously believed. The nose has a lot of very thin mucous membranes loaded with tiny blood vessels, it's very easy to scrape the surface of this membrane with a straw while snorting and cause a very small amount of blood to be released and contaminate the straw...It only requires the person sharing it to have a small scrape on the inside of their nose to transmit the virus....Also, regulr snorters will usually have some inflammation and damage to the intra-nasal membrane, making transmission of Hep C even easier.

It's quite a bit different than sharing straws orally....If you shared straws orally with someone who had Hepatitis A and didn't wash their hands after using the restroom that would be a pretty easy way to contract that particular virus. In many 3rd world countries, children pass hepatitis A on to each other at early age and the majority of them show know symptoms....Hep A is kind of like chicken pox in that "you can only get it once"....

I guess the moral of the story is, each virus comes with a different set of things that you should be paranoid about!....
 
trees_please said:
yes they are serious. but i will stand by my argument until you can show me one documented case of AIDS or Hepatitis where the vector was tinfoil smoked by the user(s).


Considered and highlighted? Absolutely. An issue like tinfoil transmitting serious disease? I think there are better ways to spend resources.


See first response


To be honest, im not sure how the action of sharing straws in ones nose is any different than children sharing straws at nursery school. The variable is obviously relevant here (i.e. hard drugs, juicy juice, etc.), but my point is; i dont think anyone worries about contracting blood borne viruses via smoking, etc.
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My point of foil as a harm reduction and public health aid is not concerned with viruses, I only discussed viruses here in relation to the sharing of straws when snorting.

Foil as a public health measure has the following benefits, it attracts smokers into contact with treatment agencies increasing the possibility of them entering treatment, and it is my understanding that the foil we give out in Ireland gives off less harmful fumes that shop brought foil, therefore, reducing the amount of lung/respiratory infections. Psychedelic Jay disagree with me on the difference between the two, and I have emailed the markers of the foiled we use in Ireland to get clarity on this.

I remember this was discussed a lot a years back when we started giving out foil in Ireland and this is where I gain my understanding of it from.

Does that address the points you raised in relation to my posts?
 
Psychedelic Jay said:
That was not a response for you... Now it is your turn...

Have you ever heard of toxic encephalopathy? It seems to be quite relevant to heroin smokers and foil...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_encephalopathy It doesn’t get better only worse...

People still forget about reduced lung function and lung infections... With shitty dope there is stuff you definitely don’t want to be heating....


I’d say stick to I.V. supplies and buy dollar store foil... And educate people...

Education is the key, not methods of administration...
Click to expand...


Why not give out both IV supplies and foil? Hopefully people attending exchanges are getting more than whatever it is they need to use. Those that need advise on health related topics due to their drug use should be getting access to any help they need. If no foil was given out, smokers would not attend, hence miss out on possible interventions.
 
Doody OD said:
Why not give out both IV supplies and foil? Hopefully people attending exchanges are getting more than whatever it is they need to use. Those that need advise on health related topics due to their drug use should be getting access to any help they need. If no foil was given out, smokers would not attend, hence miss out on possible interventions.
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Echanges are not meant to intervene in the first place.

I meant to say depending on what region you live in, smoking heroin really doesn’t exist... (Generally speaking)

That is in the UK... There is tons of freebase over there... (Generally speaking)

In the us there is smokable tar from central on westward... (Generally speaking)

Now you have all the other salted forms of heroin floating in most other spots... People generally snort and shoot in these places... (Generally speaking)


Foil will only be effective in certain areas... The eastern US in not one of them... (Generally Speaking)


This is generalized data I have come to learn via bluelight and my now 10 solid years doing heroin... I here in the central-southern US Have never come across #4 or #3... Only tar, and tar powder.
 
Even giving out works is an intervention, so I'm not sure what you meant about not meant to intervene. Over here, there are a significant amount of long-term heroin smokers, especially in the last 10-15 years. I couldn't give you a percentage of smokers vs injectors, but I think smoking it on foil is very common in the UK too, we are only a few miles apart.

I suppose it, on the basis that those who may be in need of some form of health care intervention are more likely to get it, if the are in contact with health care professionals. Exchanges here also give out info and advice on many topics like homelessness, so if the people who may need that help are attending exchanges in order to get foil I support it.
 
Giving out supplies isn’t an intervention... Interventions are not effective, and have some of the highest relapse rates...

Would you give me a needle if you wanted me off dope? It’s education, not intervention. It’s all about safety...

It’s to give a choice, not to stop you from using.

There are tons of smokers over there because there is more freebased heroin over there... I already said this. Foil would be great in those areas. (Generally speaking)

But, if this were applied to the heroin #4 users here, they wouldn’t do it as it is a waste of dope...

The only places that need foil are places where black-tar heroin and freebase heroin are... Everywhere else would be a great waste of effort.

Instead of foil, hand out clean straws for snorting... Hand out pamphlets on drug safety. Give classes... At least classes won’t make as much trash on the street as foil, straws or pamphlets...
 
Which government has come up with this???? In the UK you get free needles and works at any number of needle exchanges, in most cities. This is for addicts who choose to inject and works well, our spread of HIV and Hep C has reduced since their inception. To buy foil for smoking heroin, one visits a general store / supermarket and purchases it, for less than 1 pound. The main reason an exchange handing out free foil would fail, certainly in the UK, is that I can't think of a single user who would risk being tagged as a total muppet for usingsuch a place, for a
Piece of foil worth less than the price of a disposable lighter. There is however someone (I'm assuming this could only bein the US!) who is sitting smugly this evening, genuinely believing he has actually had a good idea. Muppet!
 
Psychedelic Jay said:
Giving out supplies isn’t an intervention... Interventions are not effective, and have some of the highest relapse rates...

Would you give me a needle if you wanted me off dope? It’s education, not intervention. It’s all about safety...

It’s to give a choice, not to stop you from using.

There are tons of smokers over there because there is more freebased heroin over there... I already said this. Foil would be great in those areas. (Generally speaking)

But, if this were applied to the heroin #4 users here, they wouldn’t do it as it is a waste of dope...

The only places that need foil are places where black-tar heroin and freebase heroin are... Everywhere else would be a great waste of effort.

Instead of foil, hand out clean straws for snorting... Hand out pamphlets on drug safety. Give classes... At least classes won’t make as much trash on the street as foil, straws or pamphlets...
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I think this is where we will disagree, am I correct that you see the term intervention as only relating to some act that tries to get a person to stop using? I am aware of how the term is sometimes used to describe an act which tries to force a person into treatment.

An intervention in my understanding is where a health care profession supplies some type of educative or health related acts which benefits the person attending.

Of course I am only referring to giving it out where people will use it, what would be the point if people does not want or will not us it. On top of foil we already do all of the above except straws at the moment.

Those working in exchanges should not be want people of drugs that is up the person, if they ask for help in that area fair enough, if not no agenda should be pushed.
 
DoctorFoster, This happens in parts of the UK already, it has been happening in Ireland for a few years we basically follow what you guys do. I am surprised you are not aware of it.
 
I never said anything about pushing people...

I see now we were using different interventions...

If you mean safety intervention, we actually agree...

I still think simple accessible things should be of you own discretion... You can buy foil anywhere as it is readily accessible...

You can’t just buy needles anywhere, or naloxone... You see what I mean?

I’d say keep foil down to areas where freebase is readily available. It can’t hurt, but what the hell, right?
 
Psychedelic Jay said:
I never said anything about pushing people...

I see now we were using different interventions...

If you mean safety intervention, we actually agree...

I still think simple accessible things should be of you own discretion... You can buy foil anywhere as it is readily accessible...

You can’t just buy needles anywhere, or naloxone... You see what I mean?

I’d say keep foil down to areas where freebase is readily available. It can’t hurt, but what the hell, right?
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From my point of view it is about getting people in contact with services, and directing the to any services that may be beneficial to them. I see a lot of positives in it, a lot of smokers move on to IV as a ROA, so if they are getting foil there and then decide they want to IV they already know where to access IV tools and advice.

The funny thing is if you look at this, it is actually illegal to give foil to addicts in the UK under the Misuse of Drugs Act. Though no drugs worker has every been charged under this law, it seem exchanges that give out foil work out a agreement with the local head of police that no staff member will be charged.

Well you certainly learn something new every day!!!

Now naloxone that would be an incentive I would like to see happening here in Ireland, is it available in any area that posters here live within?
 
Psychedelic Jay said:
Not anymore...

It’s like they add a service and delete one at the same time...
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We have never had access to it through exchanges over here, [sadly a lot of users on the streets wouldn't even know what it is] and I don't think it was ever given out in the UK either. Did you have access to it and it was stopped? I'm not sure what you are referring to.
 
Doody OD said:
We have never had access to it through exchanges over here, [sadly a lot of users on the streets wouldn't even know what it is] and I don't think it was ever given out in the UK either. Did you have access to it and it was stopped? I'm not sure what you are referring to.
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There used to be a little program that went around in a van and handed out anti-overdose medication...

It wasn’t part of a major program as far as I know...
 
Pretty much like in Norway! I support the smoking, tinctures and poppy tea but no injection.
 
Doody OD said:
How could it lead to addicts sharing? You do know that people have a choice at the exchange, the only take the foil if that is what they want, if they want works and other IV kit the get that. Do you think this is forced on them or something?
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Sorry - I misread the article.. I thought they were planning on replacing free needles with free foil 8)
 
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