Alcohol Vs. Hard Drugs

[Elven Warriorr]

carcinogenic vs. non-carcinogenic does not mean safe vs. unsafe. alcohol toxic, period.

btw i'm a regular (1-3 times a week) binge drinker so i have NO anti-alcohol bias but i know it's not good for you.

I never stated that alcohol wasn't a toxic substance, I was simply stating about how drinking alcohol isn't as carcinogenic as smoking cigarettes is (even if somebody is some heavy drinker).

 

[treezy z]

alcoholism can kill you just as young as smoking. cirrosis of the liver.

 

[anythingbutsober]

Unlike crystal meth, alcohol can be used without becoming intoxicated. Even just one hit of crystal meth can get somebody intoxicated.

8)8)8)

*kanye shrug*

 

[Elven Warriorr]

Drugs are considered hard drugs because of self inflicted damage to the physical health...

Alcohol, nicotine, cocaine and heroin actually have fairly close or alcohol has them beat...

Alcohol, is much more disastrous health wise than heroin, and will cause the same neglect to taking care of ones self...

Therefore these can’t be put in different boats, cause they all can endanger health, destroy kidneys, etc...

Alcohol is seriously addictive... There is no downing that.

By whom? The people who actually research these things, not our double crossing government... You can’t pay for result and make them true...

Would you classify ecstasy as a soft drug or as a hard drug?

Anyways, some of the hardest drugs to ever quit are heroin, crystal meth, and cocaine, because those substances destroy the body's pleasure producing chemicals in the brain. The psychological addictions from those sorts of substances is extremely intense, which is even worse than alcohol's psychological addictiveness.

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

Would you classify ecstasy as a soft drug or as a hard drug?

A lot will agree ecstasy (which includes more meth bombs than people think) is more of a "medium" drug, for lack of a better phrase. At least I do.

Ecstasy will give you a beautiful experience, but it's also famous for suicide Mondays. Take it a lot and too often, and you can overdue it on your body and mind, no question about that.

So clearly harder than a soft drug like weed, but not close to something like smoked meth. I'd also consider cocaine as a medium drug, but harder than ecstasy.

 

[Sprout]

Just a general response: Before making sweeping generalisations and judging millions of people in one fell swoop because of your own opinions; please provide an accurate, valid, scientifically controlled study. Otherwise, it becomes conjecture and personal opinion, which, in an argument about a subject so intense and far-reaching, is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

[Elven Warriorr]

A lot will agree ecstasy (which includes more meth bombs than people think) is more of a "medium" drug, for lack of a better phrase. At least I do.

Ecstasy will give you a beautiful experience, but it's also famous for suicide Mondays. Take it a lot and too often, and you can overdue it on your body and mind, no question about that.

So clearly harder than a soft drug like weed, but not close to something like smoked meth. I'd also consider cocaine as a medium drug, but harder than ecstasy.

Why not consider alcohol as some medium drug, just like what ecstasy is? This would solve this debate that's been going on in these threads about classifying alcohol. Alcohol certainly is nowhere near as addictive as something such as crystal meth is or what heroin is, but it's certainly way more addictive as well as toxic and dangerous than soft drugs such as weed.

Well, so where exactly would you draw the line between some drug being a soft drug, a medium drug, or a harder drug?

What's the GABA receptors? I have actually heard somewhere that alcohol destroys those stuff.

 

[Elven Warriorr]

^ alcohol will destroy your ability to feel pleasure when you've destroyed your gaba receptors and are constantly anxious. withdrawal from gaba drugs is an extremely long process.

What's the GABA receptors, exactly?

Also, alcohol should be classified as some medium drug, which is a term that NerdOnDrugs invented. It's most certainly nowhere near as addictive as something such as heroin is, but it still is way too dangerous to be classified as some "soft drug". Alcohol, ecstasy, as well as cocaine are all "medium drugs".

 

[NerdOnDrugs]

Why not consider alcohol as some medium drug, just like what ecstasy is? This would solve this debate that's been going on in these threads about classifying alcohol. Alcohol certainly is nowhere near as addictive as something such as crystal meth is or what heroin is, but it's certainly way more addictive as well as toxic and dangerous than soft drugs such as weed.

Well, so where exactly would you draw the line between some drug being a soft drug, a medium drug, or a harder drug?

What's the GABA receptors? I have actually heard somewhere that alcohol destroys those stuff.

Tricky thing about alcohol is that it's associated with more destruction, violence, rapes, child abuse, domestic abuse, etc.. than all the hard drugs combined. If you want to pursue that argument, you can say it's the hardest drug of them all...

The majority of people do use alcohol to some degree... it can be used responsibly easier than all hard drugs, but only tiny specks of the population use meth or heroin. And we in part judge whether a drug is "soft" or "hard" depending on it's cost to society, in which alcohol triumphs.

But leaving its devastatingly horrible effects on the populous alone, on a purely individual level, I'd rank it as a medium drug, safer than ecstasy. Technically it's not alcohols fault it's widely available and use is expected in so many regular social situations.

So currently I do consider alcohol a hard drug. Under a different legal system or society that could easily change. But you have to take the drugs effect on society and others into account, not just its direct effects on the user.

 

[dankhead88]

^ You should really attempt to avoid absolute statements with regard to topics that professionals still debate.
You talk about Meth withdrawals as though all possible symptoms are present in 100% of cases. Sorry, but I have gone through them and know many others who have as well. I have never heard of anyone having hallucinations from them. That is more typical of binge-tweakers who stay up for 5 or more days. Stimulant psychosis is not exactly typical of stimulant withdrawals.

The medical community has done fairly little research on brain damage resulting from meth usage, and there is a debate as to the degree of permanent damage, if any, caused by meth use.

Quoted for truth. Hell, all I did after using meth for 4 months straight, was sleep for three whole days

 

[dankhead88]

What's the GABA receptors, exactly?

Also, alcohol should be classified as some medium drug, which is a term that NerdOnDrugs invented. It's most certainly nowhere near as addictive as something such as heroin is, but it still is way too dangerous to be classified as some "soft drug". Alcohol, ecstasy, as well as cocaine are all "medium drugs".

They promote relaxation, and have anti-spazmodic, anti-seizure, and anti-anxiety effects as far as I know. Gamma Amino Butyric Acid.

There are various subtypes of GABA receptors in the body and brain as far as I know and there are many drugs that bind onto those specific receptors, such as the benzodiazepines type drugs like xanax(alprazolam), valium(diazepam), clonazepam(klonopins and then you have drugs like GHB and GBL, which I think it is structurally similar to GABA, and the rarely prescribed sedative/hypnotics class of drugs called Barbiturates like seconal, phenobarbital, and phetobarbital.

I really don't believe in the "soft drugs hard drugs" tier system. I believe a psychoactive is just a psychoactive in my honest opinion and all depends on the individual on how they use the drugs.

 

[Elven Warriorr]

They promote relaxation, and have anti-spazmodic, anti-seizure, and anti-anxiety effects as far as I know. Gamma Amino Butyric Acid.

There are various subtypes of GABA receptors in the body and brain as far as I know and there are many drugs that bind onto those specific receptors, such as the benzodiazepines type drugs like xanax(alprazolam), valium(diazepam), clonazepam(klonopins and then you have drugs like GHB and GBL, which I think it is structurally similar to GABA, and the rarely prescribed sedative/hypnotics class of drugs called Barbiturates like seconal, phenobarbital, and phetobarbital.

I really don't believe in the "soft drugs hard drugs" tier system. I believe a psychoactive is just a psychoactive in my honest opinion and all depends on the individual on how they use the drugs.

Both heroin, cocaine, crack, as well as crystal meth, destroy the brain's pleasure producing chemicals if used over a long period of time. Does alcohol also do this stuff?

I would classify all of those specific drugs as harder drugs simply because of their intense psychological addictions, which happens because they destroy the brain's ability to produce those pleasure producing chemicals. Is alcohol just like that?

 

[dankhead88]

I apologize if I come off as a prick EW, but before you make such claims about a drug that you have no idea how the drug works from a pharmacological/research/personal standpoint/experience you should really read more from numerous scholarly articles, more harm-reduction(not anti-drug) websites, and from awareness websites that have unbiased opinions about addicts and non-addicts and I also expect to see answers of the positive and neutral views on the topic as well, rather than reading negative opinions and disagreements all the time.

Hell, you could even read more Wikipedia articles. I mean, after all. Most of their information is cited at their citations section, but don't forget that there are websites focused on harm-reduction, pharmacoloygy, and like erowid.org, THIS website, Bluelight Wiki, etc.

 

[dankhead88]

IF used heavily. It's called downregulation and dopamine receptors do comeback with time and care.

Alcohol's tolerance can cause a great strain on the liver. After all, Alcohol is well known for a hepatotoxic and because of it, (now this is only what I speculate) thousands of liver dialysis, liver transplants due to liver failure, and deaths due to how much strain the alcohol gives to the liver.

Alcohol can also cause a problem socially. A heavy drinker will appear sober, but will ultimately fail a breathylizer test because of it and will be a candidate for alcoholic and alcoholism.

Instead of classifying them as hard drugs or soft drugs, I rather find the therapeutic index and safety profile of a drug more informative and detailed.

 

[Elven Warriorr]

IF used heavily. It's called downregulation and dopamine receptors do comeback with time and care.

Alcohol's tolerance can cause a great strain on the liver. After all, Alcohol is well known for a hepatotoxic and because of it, (now this is only what I speculate) thousands of liver dialysis, liver transplants due to liver failure, and deaths due to how much strain the alcohol gives to the liver.

Alcohol can also cause a problem socially. A heavy drinker will appear sober, but will ultimately fail a breathylizer test because of it and will be a candidate for alcoholic and alcoholism.

Instead of classifying them as hard drugs or soft drugs, I rather find the therapeutic index and safety profile of a drug more informative and detailed.

What's that, exactly?

 

[dankhead88]

Even though I may disagree with some of your opinions and persuasion, I do respect your opinions, but I feel that your aurguments COULD prove more effective if you could provide us with more logos and ethos along your own annotation on why you chose that source along with some research done. On top of that, if you could at least research and look up some of the other users' posts that replied to your posts, just so you can have a more firm and better understanding on what they are saying or are trying to say.

 

[dankhead88]

Quoted from Wikipedia

Quoted from Wikipedia

Therapeutic index (also known as therapeutic ratio) is a comparison of the amount of a therapeutic agent that causes the therapeutic effect to the amount that causes death (in animal studies) or toxicity (in human studies).[1]

Quantitatively, it is the ratio given by the lethal or toxic dose divided by the therapeutic dose.

In animal studies, the therapeutic index is the lethal dose of a drug for 50% of the population (LD50) divided by the minimum effective dose for 50% of the population (ED50).

Lethality is not determined in human clinical trials; instead, the dose that produces a toxicity in 50% of the population (TD50) is used to calculate the therapeutic index.

While the lethal dose is important to determine in animal studies, there are usually severe toxicities that occur at sublethal doses in humans, and these toxicities often limit the maximum dose of a drug. A higher therapeutic index is preferable to a lower one: a patient would have to take a much higher dose of such a drug to reach the lethal/toxic threshold than the dose taken to elicit the therapeutic effect.

Pharmacovigilance (abbreviated PV or PhV), also known as Drug Safety, is the pharmacological science relating to the collection, detection, assessment, monitoring, and prevention of adverse effects with pharmaceutical products.[1] The etymological roots for the word "pharmacovigilance" are: pharmakon (Greek for drug) and vigilare (Latin for to keep watch). As such, pharmacovigilance heavily focuses on adverse drug reactions, or ADRs, which are defined as any response to a drug which is noxious and unintended, including lack of efficacy, which occurs at doses normally used for the prophylaxis, diagnosis or therapy of disease, or for the modification of physiological function. Medication errors such as overdose, and misuse and abuse of a drug, are also of interest because they may result in an ADR.[2]

and I forgot to mention that yes alcohol does cause psychological addiction in a sense like every other addictive drug does. Like you've mentioned, sure there are people drinking one drink, but it's still psychological gratification and they feel as if everything in the world got better from one drink. which could somewhat cause some sort of anhedonia(loss of pleasure) fomr some people, if they didn't have that drink

Don't you ever hear from some people when they're stressed or pissed? "I really need a fucking drink right about now".

 

[dankhead88]

You didn't have to delete your post though :-\

 

[Elven Warriorr]

Quoted from Wikipedia



and I forgot to mention that yes alcohol does cause psychological addiction in a sense like every other addictive drug does. Like you've mentioned, sure there are people drinking one drink, but it's still psychological gratification and they feel as if everything in the world got better from one drink. which could somewhat cause some sort of anhedonia(loss of pleasure) fomr some people, if they didn't have that drink

Don't you ever hear from some people when they're stressed or pissed? "I really need a fucking drink right about now".

Yes, but I would not classify alcohol as a hard drug (it's more of a medium drug if you ask me, it's just way more dangerous than soft drugs such as weed), because it's not as psychologically addictive as something such as heroin is, since alcohol simply just doesn't cause the same amount of damage to somebody's pleasure producing chemicals in their brains. Also, alcohol isn't as euphoric as cocaine and heroin and crystal meth, which makes it way less psychologically addictive.

Also, people don't have a "crash" after they get drunk that gives them stronger cravings for some more alcohol. Which is why alcohol is nowhere near as psychologically addictive or easy to become addicted to, compared to something such as heroin is. However, since it's a very dangerous substance, I wouldn't classify it alongside marijuana as some soft drug. It's just some medium drug if you ask me.

 

[weekend addiction]

Also, people don't have a "crash" after they get drunk that gives them stronger cravings for some more alcohol.

That's exactly what I experience every hangover. I usually end up drinking a half shot of whiskey or so every morning I'm hungover because I "need it" to feel better. Alcohol can be very hard on your body compared to most drugs, but in moderation it seems to be more benign than say...popping oxy in moderation. I know if I pop oxy even just once a week I'll crave the shit out of it the other 6 days. But if I get shitfaced every Friday I'm not going to crave the shit out of alcohol every waking moment. Yes dosing oxy once a week is not as harmful as drinking physiologically. Physiologically most every drug is safer than alcohol. But the cravings that drive you fucking crazy are easier reached by harder drugs.

Potential severe harm in excess. But much safer when used in moderation than most other drugs. So yes I would say a medium drug in the scheme of things. Not like marijuana though. Marijuana is not a medium drug. Though the social stigma has marijuana and alcohol tied that has nothing to do with the seriousness of said drug. Marijuana is about the softest drug out there.