Does anyone agree that the value of pot far exceeds all other psychedelics combined?

[burn out]

I mean in terms of developing lasting changes in one consciousness and understanding of the spiritual nature of life. For me, drugs like acid and mushrooms can be fun and produce pretty visuals but they are really not good for much beyond recreation. Sure, you might have what seem like "profound" insights when you're tripping but a week later, how many of these insights have actually remained with you? Very few in my case.

Marijuana on the other hand, actually produces lasting changes in one's mind and spirit provided one knows how to use it. The problems with LSD, mushrooms are multiple. One is that they develop tolerance and thus cannot be used every day. Now I am not saying it is a good idea to smoke marijuana every day, I believe that doing so for long periods can be very harmful (depending on the makeup of the person and the amount smoked).. However, smoking daily for short stints like a couple of weeks can provide tremendous spiritual insights that stick with a person, because the higher state of consciousness becomes part of daily life, at least for a time, rather than just on an occasion. One night is really too short a period of time for real, lasting change to take place (in most cases) and thus the real value of an LSD or mushroom trip is extremely limited.

The other major reason pot is better is because the state of mind it induces is not quite as far from ordinary consciousness as LSD/mushroom consciouisness. THe problem with LSD and mushrooms is, I find that they tend to do all the work for you, moving your consciousness to a very high state with little or no effort on your part and then dropping you back down. With marijuana, simply getting stoned is probably not going to cause enlightenment, but what it does do is put you in a state of mind that is very conductive to meditation and spiritual work. Thus, it forces the spiritual seeker to learn to manipulate their own consciousness rather than depending on a drug to do all the work for them. Even though pot wears off, the same methods and techniques for raising consciousness can be used sober.

The third reason is that I find ego loss almost impossible to achieve with LSD or mushrooms. THey simply make my mind too active. They increase thoughts rather than eliminating them. Pot on the other hand, allows me to get into the state of awareness which is beyond thought. Undistracted by wayward thoughts, the spiritual seeker can then obtain incredible insight into the nature of his being.


This is only my experience but I am curious if anyone agrees. Also, if anyone has questions on how to use pot to grow spiritually and possibly obtain Self-realization, feel free to ask. I am an expert on the use of marijuana as a meditation aide.

 

[wayab]

marijuana has been like heroine to me. n1 problem in my life. i know that it is not like that for every one but i know of others like me.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't know what the reason is why you aren't able to get those benefits you mention from serotonergic psychedelics but I certainly do, and much more effectively than with anything else.

I object to the cannabis tolerance not being a huge impairment. Maybe at just day 2 or 3 of smoking weed you can get more effects compared to what you would get with psychedelics, but after having been a habitual cannabis smoker for years I finally became fed up and upset with the hazy feeling hanging around my head.
You can call that mellow, but I find it pretty bad for my signal to noise ratio. And I don't feel like hanging around in that haze is particularly meditative. Psychedelics are rarely used on such a frequent basis and I have found a few other (reversible) issues with tripping weekly for a long while - but generally speaking I get enormous clarity with them and unmatched potential for spiritual work and meditation.

Everyone reacts differently I guess. There is no singular answer to this.

I understand where you're coming from because your arguments are put very understandably but I disagree.

 

[immad]

For me, pot feels like the retarded infant brother of LSD/mushrooms. But what do you know, I also get little muscle spasms from it, while no such issues present themselves on serotonergic psychedelics.

 

[dopemaster]

I think shrooms are off the hook personally. If I had unlimited access Id be an eraserhead quick. Im not dissing weed but it got old for me. I still smoke every few months and it don't take much to get me where I wanna go but at my age no one smokes pot anymore really even among drug users. Honestly I think its because everyone is either getting pills from the doctor or on probation or parole and therefore piss tested.

 

[crazycatman]

never liked the feeling pot gives, but whatever floats your boat op

 

[[éS]Infinite]

It's just a case of individual psychology and physiology. You are clearly more comfortable with the effects of cannabis than you are with those of 5-HT2A agonists, and while I think most people are likely to agree with that, there are definitely individuals who reap no benefits from using cannabis but do from psychedelics.
I am a bit confused however, as you say cannabis provides lasting changes to one's consciousness yet you mention that it must be used frequently. I would argue (from what I have experienced) that psychedelics offer the long-term framework as they offer very powerful and impacting experiences, and that cannabis offers short-term maintenance or re-integration of those experiences.
I value having both of these items in my life as they act so effectively at improving one's quality of life.
I also understand that my opinion is just that, my opinion, and may not be shared by others.

 

[ToTheMoon]

I would be a completely different person without marijuana, and that change would be for the worst in terms of myself, and those around me in my life.

I could drop my day time smoking whenever, but with my natural sleeping problems combined with dependence on THC to sleep I'm essentially quasi-addicted to it now "technically", but that's perfectly fine for me, I know how beneficial THC is to me

 

[Magickduck]

I mean in terms of developing lasting changes in one consciousness and understanding of the spiritual nature of life. For me, drugs like acid and mushrooms can be fun and produce pretty visuals but they are really not good for much beyond recreation. Sure, you might have what seem like "profound" insights when you're tripping but a week later, how many of these insights have actually remained with you? Very few in my case.

Near all of them in my case. I had to learn to integrate - which I refused to do - just trying to use psychedelics as a magical cure to fix things then loosing the trip then trippin again to go back - this led to something I just dubbed in my head "integration debt" in which I had to integrate all these experiances and it took just as long as if i spaced out in between the trips... but yeah, I am much wiser for all of these experiances, and I never would have been ANYTHING close to who I am now without these tools... hahaha.. I can't even imagine where the heck I would have ended up..

but no, pot sucks compared to this stuff. Its in another category. Pot is good for getting relaxed, spaced out, thinking about weird shit, being lazy, getting hungry, getting cozy, etc..

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Absolutely not.
Pot makes me lazy and unmotivated and completely content with going nowhere in my life.
Idk I kinda wish I'd never started, but psyches on the other ham I've never regretted experimenting with, except the NBOMe's

 

[Jesusgreen]

I've not really found any long lasting benefits from Cannabis use personally. It's great fun, nice to relax with, and in that sense I could say it's helped me since it's helped relieve tension and stress at times when not much else really did the job, however it never really offered me the spiritual or psychological insight that psychedelics have given me, and psychedelics on the other hand have led to many long lasting positive changes in my life for which I'll forever be thankful.

I also find any sort of regular Cannabis use to definitely notably impair my short term memory, overall cognition, communication skills, and social skills. It's more something I enjoy once in a while, but as a regular thing I find it causes more negative side effects and impairment than it offers positive effects.

The key to benefiting from psychedelics is to learn to integrate your trips into your daily life. The first thing is to avoid tripping frequently, you'll gain much more lasting insight and benefits from tripping once a month or every few months than you will if you trip every few weeks or more frequently. A psychedelic can lead you to water but it can't make you drink, you have to act on what you've learned or you'll sit in the same place and each trip you'll just go back to the same spot and not progress anywhere.

For a long time psychedelics showed me how I could deal with my social anxiety and get over it but I just treated them like an instant solution, thinking that one day I'd just be completely anxiety free after a trip and never have to face the problem myself. Each time I tripped I'd just see the solutions again but never take action and nothing changed. Then one day I tripped with my friend and instead of just delving back into the same place we came up with solid plans and ideas for how I'd beat my anxiety for good, and then I used the positive afterglow and memories from my trip as a booster to get me out and active - it's now a year and a half later and I'm still anxiety free to this day! :D

 

[Jackpothead]

Pot just leaves me feeling anxious and paranoid, it did have some recreational benefits in the past but they're long since gone, I'm just starting to dip in the psychedelic realm but I already feel it's got much more to offer me than pot...

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I love marijuana, enough to have grown it for most of the past 15 years...enough that I am moving to WA state in a few months so I can continue to be around it without a criminal status. Marijuana was my first psychedelic experience...I had no idea pot could do that...I was 15 and reading about the Beatles, LSD, tripping, Leary...and I thought pot made you laugh, giggle, and act stupid. One day I was given some pot, went home turned on Sgt Pepper and proceeded to have my first trip.

So now that you understand I used to grow and willed all my intent into my plants.....pot doesn't do what an intense 'serotoninergic ' psychedelic experience does. A very close (but newer) best friend of mine never had the 'real' tripping experience until I gave him 30mg psilocin a month ago and he had his first ++++ ...and he had been tripping on shrooms and LSD for the preceding 5-7 years but never had anything like what we experienced together.

It's all about set, setting, intentions.

To really look back, I never really tripped either until my ibogaine experience. I thought I knew all about what a '++++' was but I didn't. A real ++++ doesn't end when the trip ends. So it took me 20 years of working with psychedelics to actually get it. I attribute that to intense Western programming, I know first hand that tripping with someone who has had a ++++ can transmit to another having one too...as I've seen it with my own eyes and gave the above example.

 

[alovesupreme]

i have been blessed to have had the opportunity to experience many different psychedelic compounds many times over and they have all been fabulous. but to me, pot will always be god's greatest gift to mankind. you can take away all my other drugs, just leave me my pot and i'll be happy. smoke trees every day till i croak...

 

[dopemaster]

I like weed but I cant get my medication without piss tests so I rarely smoke. Its better for me cuz I enjoy it a lot more. I used to smoke to much and get lazy. Just get stoned and play video games all day or skateboard. Nothing productive. Id rather have an experience now that Im older but smoking pot sure got me through some rough times when I was younger.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Interesting thread.

My opinion is pretty much the exact inverse of yours, OP. A few hours on LSD offers me priceless personal and spiritual growth. However, off the top of my head, I can't name one long-lasting benefit that I've derived from pot, although I've smoked a fair deal of it.

Pot clouds my mind, and creates anxiety which derails my thoughts into useless paranoia. LSD (other psychedelics too, but LSD in particular), on the other hand, gives me a deep sense of inner peace, which both relaxes me, and powerfully stimulates my curiosity, encouraging a lucid flow of insight that never fails to amaze me.

Just goes to show that we are all very different, and we shouldn't draw conclusions based on others' experiences.

 

[EarthBounded]

I am an expert on the use of marijuana as a meditation aide.

That is cool and a positive thing.

However I must say these tool are worlds apart and all bring different aspects and experience, to say one is better or of higher spiritual value is impossible, and specific to each individual. Seems cannabis is very positive to you.

The plant kingdom is the plant kingdom, the chemical world is the chemical world, we are just blessed to have these experience in the first place

 

[burn out]

Interesting responses. I understand what a lot of you are saying but let me explain a little further as I respond to some of your comments.

marijuana has been like heroine to me. n1 problem in my life. i know that it is not like that for every one but i know of others like me.

Actually, I am one of those people who had major problems with pot. I guess I just respond to it TOO well. When I was in college, all I used to do was smoke pot from dawn till dusk. It was actually worse than heroin (I am a heroin addict also, although I recently have gotten off heroin with the help of marijuana). The reason I had such problems with pot is because it would almost instantly put me into a state of spiritual bliss, a level of bliss that exceeds even the best heroin high. How could I resist something that was so good and enlightening?

Anyway, that was more than seven years ago and now I am old enough and wise enough to use marijuana in a responsible manner. The thought of smoking from morning til night every day does not even occur to me anymore, I try to only use it as a spiritual aide.

 

[burn out]

I also find any sort of regular Cannabis use to definitely notably impair my short term memory, overall cognition, communication skills, and social skills. It's more something I enjoy once in a while, but as a regular thing I find it causes more negative side effects and impairment than it offers positive effects.

Yes, pot definitely has some problematic side effects. This is why I am not advocating marijuana use as an end in of itself. There are some people who are content to smoke marijuana to "relax" or whatever. That is not what I am talking about at all, I am talking about using it specifically to get oneself in tune with God, the universal life energy. When used in that way, the side effects dont matter as much because they are only temporary whereas the insights one gains are lasting and one can then continue growing spiritually without it. I am not saying to smoke marijuana indefinitely, there is a point where you will have reaped all the benefits from it and continued use will be counter productive.

 

[burn out]

It's just a case of individual psychology and physiology. You are clearly more comfortable with the effects of cannabis than you are with those of 5-HT2A agonists, and while I think most people are likely to agree with that, there are definitely individuals who reap no benefits from using cannabis but do from psychedelics.
I am a bit confused however, as you say cannabis provides lasting changes to one's consciousness yet you mention that it must be used frequently. I would argue (from what I have experienced) that psychedelics offer the long-term framework as they offer very powerful and impacting experiences, and that cannabis offers short-term maintenance or re-integration of those experiences.
I value having both of these items in my life as they act so effectively at improving one's quality of life.
I also understand that my opinion is just that, my opinion, and may not be shared by others.

I believe that cannabis offers just as powerful experiences as other psychedelics, at least in my experience. As I said earlier, I am unable to achieve complete ego loss with any drug other than cannabis. I have taken as much as 14 hits of acid before, trying to destroy my ego and found that my ego had very little trouble surviving. It gets very small but I never gain true freedom from it. With cannabis however, I have many times entered states of samadhi or contemplation. These are states of complete absorption in formless awareness, which is love-bliss. To live in such a state of love-bliss is the goal of spiritual practices, not to have profound experiences with pretty visuals like LSD provides. Even if you are able to reach formless awareness with LSD, I still think cannabis is more valuable because LSD does too much of the work for you.

Now let me explain what I mean about lasting changes. I have had profound spiritual experiences with LSD and mushrooms too, in fact I have gotten some insights about the nature and perfection of God which I never received from cannabis. But, no matter how profound the experience it was always fleeting. Real, lasting spiritual growth consists of taking the outward going mind which is used to receiving pleasure from the body/mind and turning it inward, tuning it into the life force which is ever blissful and forsaking the world.

That means that the passions must be overcome. Things like lust, greed, gluttony, laziness, etc must be conquered as one learns how to find peace within himself rather than depending on pleasant sense experiences for happiness, which one can never have enough of to completely satisfy. Now in my experience, something like lust for instance, is extremely difficult to overcome in one night. It takes continued effort over time of being ever vigilant and turning the mind inward over and over again, before the passions are significantly lessened. What makes cannabis so valuable is that by putting you into a meditative state of mind on a daily bases if necessary, it serves as a constant reminder of what one should be doing to progress spiritually. In other words, it helps you to forsake the world, by allowing to be inwardly peaceful for a significant length of time. WIth LSD or mushrooms, I find myself quickly returning to a worldly life after the trip ends, no matter how far I went into pure spirit during the trip. Marijuana is invaluable in terms of keeping my mind turned inward and motivating me to pursue spiritual growth above all else. In my sober state, I am just too easily drawn by the temptation to pursue worldly pleasure.

In short, the goal of spiritual practice is to cultivate inner peace and wisdom which becomes like a current that persists regardless of the physical circumstances you face. LSD and mushrooms put you in that current for a night, but then leave you completely on your own after that. Cannabis on the other hand, can be used as a daily reminder of where one's attention should be, and that imo is infinitely more valuable than anything LSD and mushrooms have to offer.

Alan Watts also believed that cannabis was the most valuable spiritual drug so I should really give him the credit for the ideas I have presented here, I just find that the more I think about it, the more I agree with him.