Psychedelic cults

[mahoosive bendah]

And yeah, it may be hard for people who have not been to these things or had these experiances to understand, but there have been multiple people who have seen this and agree with me...

Or, you know, come out to one of these events and eat some L.... without trying to analyze it as I have, the better ones that are of the light is a very amazing experiance. mass telepathy is a powerful experiance.

Thats all kinda patronizing. Maybe we do understand the point you're trying to make but just don't agree with you. Multiple people believe the earth is hollow, that doesn't make it true.

You had a bad jolt at a party, maybe you shouldn't do acid at places were you can't control the music if it is going to have such a lasting impact on you.

And what kind of messed up parties are you going to where people 'aren't allowed to leave' ?
Was the rest of the crowd trying to leave ? Just because you were wetting your pants doesn't mean everyone else was.

 

[Magickduck]

They were trying to protect me, you know, from wandering off down the road and getting hurt in babylon, so I understand. Even though I was able to take care of myself and with a sober person (my wife) they hassled me still, but their intent was good.

And yes, it does mean that, I have talked to a good number of people who had a similar experiance there.


And OK - that aside, maybe I should have made two threads.

BeSIDES that dark party, my point still remains.

All magick, bad intent, evil doers aside, I am talking about the imprinting caused by LSD and the accidental 'cults' that form all over the place i.e. like the one poster who said when he was young he'd give out psychedelics and ended up with a bunch of 'followers' treating him as their personal shaman, and I have seen many people and groups ALL over the place like this- with my own two eyes, and then i hear stories here and posters here. And then besides the bad parties, even at ones i have a good time at and others have a good time at, at some of these festivals, they ARE purposfully influencing set and setting with subliminal messanging in the music in an attempt to sway and influence people's psychedelic experiances...

 

[Si Dread]

Those who suggest you, Magickduck, exposed your own self to the experience have a point, & now that you explain why you werent allowed to leave the Dark Psy it does kinda make sense. I accidentally freaked out a mate of mine on shrooms, years & years ago & he tried to leave my apartment in the middle of the night in a panic. I didnt have to physically restrain him, it almost came to that but he was terrified of me so getting physical woudn't have helped. I managed to convince him with quiet, calm words that I was only keeping him in out of concern for his safety in the street, & that, if he did want to go outside, we can go sit in my garden for a bit, no problem. He calmed soon enough & I walked him home a few hours later after the trip turned happier. He came out of it with a sense of inner strength he'd not enjoyed before but I was an emotional wreck for about a week!

I think the moral of this & any story about awkward enviroments for psychedelic use is : try to expose yourself only to safe, comforting enviroments unless you truly do have the nads to take whatever life might through at you while you're wasted!

 

[Magickduck]

I mean yeah but i didn't expect to have people purposefully inspiring a bad trip

 

[gremlin moon]

but there are certain groups that are doing magick ritual on large groups of people - most of this is in a positive way, but some are very, very bad (at least one that I know of).

And this is not just me,.

[Disclaimer: I prefer the term "psychedelic" over "entheogenic." I don't feel that one needs a politically correct religious scaffold to justify the use of hallucinogens and the like.]

Magic is not real. It only "works" on those who "believe." The "power" is not in the magic but in the belief of it. I 100% agree that there are people who do magic rituals in those contexts -- but they don't work on those who do not believe in them -- EVER. I also agree that there are a lot of shady "leader" types as well -- for me Robert Hunter phrased it best in the GD song "US Blues:" I'll drink your health, share your wealth, run your life, steal your wife.



I also think Hamilton from Vice Magazine does a good job in his ethnobotanical psychedelic series of showing the line between pharmacology and belief. http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/nzambi-episode-1.

Nothing captures the imagination like psychedelics:

 

[GreenMachine]

i think that its very important that if someone is interested in psychedelics, and using psychedelics at events like psy-parties, raves, festivals, etc. it is vastly helpful to have someone more experienced help introduce them to the scene. sometimes these things can be such a culture-shock (especially with a headful of psychedelics), that the new trippers might get the wrong impression.

also make no mistakes--music especially psychedelic music, is designed from the ground up to affect your mind. this can be anything from simply strange, trippy sounds to elements put into the music to make you think, reprogramming your own mind. psy is all about timestretched movie samples and other things to grok at while you are all tripped out. a distinction you need to make is that it ISNT just the people throwing the party or surrounding you that want to share this music, its the producers, the musicians the people who recorded it in the first place. the DJs just play these records because they feel the will fit the vibe of the party. if it is darker, then so be it. many fans and DJs and producers into darker psy that i know, feel that the darker vibe helps you work through a possibly darker trip then sort of exorcise the darkness from you--or something like that, in sort of a yin and yang kind of way--i dont know.

i am not that into psy but you are hardly alone with your idea of feeling conspired against at a psychedelic event. read the electric kool-aid acid test and you will find that owsley (the first large scale underground LSD chemist) had a very similar experience the first time he went to an acid test featuring the grateful dead. he promptly split and drove immediately into a telephone pole he was so freaked. there can be great psychic power at work when you have a mass acid experience with the right music, but this shit is incredibly unwieldy. it kind of does it wants, making a conspiratorial theory like yours a little hard to realize, if at all possible.

http://books.google.com/books?id=M4zx5dxTMqwC&pg=PA249&lpg=PA249&dq=owsley+freak+out+trips+festival&source=bl&ots=dF9RXpbaJs&sig=3FB-Oh5SFgHww8irDVvctq1f5qg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tIHDUf2TK9iu4AOeoYBI&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=owsley%20freak%20out%20trips%20festival&f=false

 

[GreenMachine]

"Running out a side door during his freakout, Owsley leaped into his car, gunned the engine and promptly ran into a ditch. When he finally returned to his physical body and found it mostly intact, Owsley was horrified by the way Kesey and the Pranksters were messing with people’s minds. “Kesey was playing with something he did not understand,” Owsley says. “I said to him, ‘You guys are fucking around with something that people have known about forever. It’s sometimes called witchcraft, and it’s extremely dangerous. You’re dealing with part of the unconscious mind that they used to define as angels and devils. You have to be very careful, because there are all these warnings. All the occult literature about ceremonial magic warns about being very careful when you start exploring these areas in the mind.’ And they laughed at me.”…

owsley was a very eccentric guy but i think he was right about the experience tapping into the collective unconscious in such a strange and sometimes, very frightening way. things might get a little weird, but that very well may not be the intentions of those playing the music, or organizing the event. we barely know anything about how psychedelics work on the mind, and hardly anything on the brain itself. this is uncharted territory, thats why they called these things "acid tests".

 

[webbykevin]

If psychedelics could facilitate the control of people the governments would all be using them, unfortunately that was thoroughly investigated 40 years ago and abandoned in favour of mainstream media propaganda directed at the mass couch potatoes through film, tv news and political spin, along with a good dose of confusing religious paradox's and the over prescription of pharmaceutical psych drugs that are NOT psychedelic and the dumbing down of education by turning our great universities into nothing more than capitalist trade schools.

free thinking is not allowed, it's the biggest taboo on this planet.

 

[bloodshed344]

I mean yeah but i didn't expect to have people purposefully inspiring a bad trip

It was all in your head, man.

 

[EarthBounded]

MODS ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

This remains at the top of PD?!

Can a mod explain to me how this has any relevance to harm reduction in the psychedelic community?!?

 

[Magickduck]

i think that its very important that if someone is interested in psychedelics, and using psychedelics at events like psy-parties, raves, festivals, etc. it is vastly helpful to have someone more experienced help introduce them to the scene. sometimes these things can be such a culture-shock (especially with a headful of psychedelics), that the new trippers might get the wrong impression.

also make no mistakes--music especially psychedelic music, is designed from the ground up to affect your mind. this can be anything from simply strange, trippy sounds to elements put into the music to make you think, reprogramming your own mind. psy is all about timestretched movie samples and other things to grok at while you are all tripped out. a distinction you need to make is that it ISNT just the people throwing the party or surrounding you that want to share this music, its the producers, the musicians the people who recorded it in the first place. the DJs just play these records because they feel the will fit the vibe of the party. if it is darker, then so be it. many fans and DJs and producers into darker psy that i know, feel that the darker vibe helps you work through a possibly darker trip then sort of exorcise the darkness from you--or something like that, in sort of a yin and yang kind of way--i dont know.

i am not that into psy but you are hardly alone with your idea of feeling conspired against at a psychedelic event. read the electric kool-aid acid test and you will find that owsley (the first large scale underground LSD chemist) had a very similar experience the first time he went to an acid test featuring the grateful dead. he promptly split and drove immediately into a telephone pole he was so freaked. there can be great psychic power at work when you have a mass acid experience with the right music, but this shit is incredibly unwieldy. it kind of does it wants, making a conspiratorial theory like yours a little hard to realize, if at all possible.

http://books.google.com/books?id=M4zx5dxTMqwC&pg=PA249&lpg=PA249&dq=owsley+freak+out+trips+festival&source=bl&ots=dF9RXpbaJs&sig=3FB-Oh5SFgHww8irDVvctq1f5qg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tIHDUf2TK9iu4AOeoYBI&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=owsley%20freak%20out%20trips%20festival&f=false

i was not new to psytrance nor was I new to festivals, or psychedelics, this one was different, and instead of good things, it was all foucsed on darkness, destruction and evil

 

[Magickduck]

It was all in your head, man.

So the intensly fast music (200bpm) with screaming and murder sounds and cries for help and chants mentioning the devil or lucifer over and over and just general creepy fucked up shit ALL night was all in my head?!

If psychedelics could facilitate the control of people the governments would all be using them, unfortunately that was thoroughly investigated 40 years ago and abandoned in favour of mainstream media propaganda directed at the mass couch potatoes through film, tv news and political spin, along with a good dose of confusing religious paradox's and the over prescription of pharmaceutical psych drugs that are NOT psychedelic and the dumbing down of education by turning our great universities into nothing more than capitalist trade schools.

free thinking is not allowed, it's the biggest taboo on this planet.

No. I maintain, that the government just did not understand the psychedelic headspace well enough to do it.

 

[webbykevin]

mods are you serious!?

This remains at the top of pd?!

bump

 

[Si Dread]

I mean yeah but i didn't expect to have people purposefully inspiring a bad trip

Yeah, I'm not excusing their behaviour. What I'm saying is, with the benefit of hindsight, would you reconsider exposing yourself to an uncontrollable enviroment if you intended to trip heavilly? If you're attending an event that you MAY not be able to remove yourself from or if you're with people who may not be willing to leave if you were having a difficult experience, I'd consider if I were you, whether or not I would want to use a psychedelic drug & if I did, perhaps it'd be wise to halve or quarter a dose so that full effects aren't too overpowering & difficulties less likely.

Adding some sort of stimulant to the mix (not that I advocate mixing chems without extensive experience) or ingesting something other than a psychedelic, might be less fraught with psychological risk. I wouldve thought MDA (not that I'v had it in proper doses) or some other long acting trippy stimulant might be more useful & less freak-outy than LSD or other powerful psychedelics.

Sorry I haven't read down yet so if I'm repeating anything, sorry!

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I respect you and your words...but I disagree. This is one of the most thought inspiring threads in ages. I have alternated between being utterly annoyed with this thread and the ideas, and then at times completely inspired to write paragraphs to it and make my case with it.

Anyways, the usual harm reduction and safety issue that BL was founded upon was never really the main theme in this forum. You can only talk safety and tell the idiots they are idiots so much!

This kind of 'far out' discussion is what makes BLPD one of a kind as I see it. I hope the thread keeps going.

MODS ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

This remains at the top of PD?!

Can a mod explain to me how this has any relevance to harm reduction in the psychedelic community?!?

 

[elucidator]

So the intensly fast music (200bpm) with screaming and murder sounds and cries for help and chants mentioning the devil or lucifer over and over and just general creepy fucked up shit ALL night was all in my head?!


No. I maintain, that the government just did not understand the psychedelic headspace well enough to do it.

I think that the government understands the psychedelic headspace a lot more than what they like us to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HLYkgaMTHA&feature=youtu.be

this clip goes briefly into explaining Operation Paperclip, Operation MK-ULTRA, Operation H.A.A.R.P. and a couple of others. It is not put together the best but I think that it explains very well that there have been attempts at mind control and hypnotization. These attempts have grown in subtlety as experimentation is now not allowed in a clinical environment. These things really did happen, and are documented well, so if anyone calls me crazy I could point you to many different books, movies and declassified reports that explain these things in more detail.

MODS ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

This remains at the top of PD?!

Can a mod explain to me how this has any relevance to harm reduction in the psychedelic community?!?

To expand on MagickDucks above point, I think that hearing the sounds of violence, conflict, and suggestive whispers would be not very beneficial and may actually contribute to psychedelic harm. So that would make this thread very appropriate for a psychedelic harm reduction forum.

 

[Solipsis]

Moved

PD >> DC

 

[Magickduck]

well I personally don't think the thread should have been moved as this was about psychedelics putting one into a hyperimpressionable state and there being people who can manipulate this thus PD-HR. I don't think it will reach the correct audience in DC - but who knows. I don't see the point in moving it just because two users got extremely offended as they have personal convinctions regarding their psychedelic usage... but whatever, its a nonissue and this thread has probably one about as far as its going to go anyway. Moral of the story: Be careful out there kids! don't blindly follow shit, don't overuse LSD, and take everything with a grain of salt.

I think that the government understands the psychedelic headspace a lot more than what they like us to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HLYkgaMTHA&feature=youtu.be

this clip goes briefly into explaining Operation Paperclip, Operation MK-ULTRA, Operation H.A.A.R.P. and a couple of others. It is not put together the best but I think that it explains very well that there have been attempts at mind control and hypnotization. These attempts have grown in subtlety as experimentation is now not allowed in a clinical environment. These things really did happen, and are documented well, so if anyone calls me crazy I could point you to many different books, movies and declassified reports that explain these things in more detail.




To expand on MagickDucks above point, I think that hearing dying screams, breaking bones, and satanic chants are doing considerable psychedelic harm. So that would make this thread very appropriate for a psychedelic harm reduction forum.

I truly hope not, that'd be a very, very bad thing. Though the one thing I was thinking is "you know, the government is so stupid, they should have had their scientists take a bunch of LSD experiance it and then learn how to manipulate people within the experiance" but then I realized that if they were to take psychedelics it would probably make them not want to use it to manipulate people in a bad way... I doubt they'd be allowed to understand this... though its scary because its honestly not that hard to figure out. I mean, shit, I have heard of even shamans using some simple manipulation methods to seem more legit to get more customers y'know? Like taking a long clear tubing and running it up into the ceiling or whatever and then out the mouth of some statue of some deity and blowing smoke through this or throat singing into this... and doing this at certain points in the ayahuasca ceremony as a "sign" from God.... things of that nature...

 

[Livinginthealps]

So the intensly fast music (200bpm) with screaming and murder sounds and cries for help and chants mentioning the devil or lucifer over and over and just general creepy fucked up shit ALL night was all in my head?!

Personally, after reading through your posts since the start of the thread, I must say I believe it was in your head. You clearly feel otherwise, and claim to be experienced with psy trance and psychedelics. If you are experienced, you would understand how a psychedelic experience can go in a "difficult" direction and completely alter everything around you. From, sounds to people faces etc. It is easy while that high to think everything's out to get you and things are "evil". Especially, when your in a crowd at an event.
Psytrance is known to have this effect on people. If you were having a positive trip, at the same event I doubt you would have these feelings. Set and setting play a massive role in an experience.
These days are long gone for me but, I have spent years dirt stomping to psytrance in the desert, mountains, beaches, factories, warehouses etc. I am well aware of the effect psytrance can have on a psychedelic experience. When your very high, those background noises can stir up a complete nonsense in your though process. After all, it is psytrance and suppose to get you into a frame of mind that makes it easy to explore your consciousness. There are artists in the psytrance scene that have a much darker style. I do not believe that is an attempt to brainwash and instil fear.
When you have a difficult experience like this, it is hard to make sense of it all.

I am not doubting the existence of "cults" in which, psychedelics play a role. I gave an example of one earlier in the thread. They are a big organization and still go around the jam band scene. Due to extreme usage of psychedelics on tour, some people are easily manipulated by these people.

But, from what you have said in your posts I believe you just had a "difficult" psychedelic experience and you are having a hard time grasping

 

[Magickduck]

Personally, after reading through your posts since the start of the thread, I must say I believe it was in your head. You clearly feel otherwise, and claim to be experienced with psy trance and psychedelics. If you are experienced, you would understand how a psychedelic experience can go in a "difficult" direction and completely alter everything around you. From, sounds to people faces etc. It is easy while that high to think everything's out to get you and things are "evil". Especially, when your in a crowd at an event.
Psytrance is known to have this effect on people. If you were having a positive trip, at the same event I doubt you would have these feelings. Set and setting play a massive role in an experience.
These days are long gone for me but, I have spent years dirt stomping to psytrance in the desert, mountains, beaches, factories, warehouses etc. I am well aware of the effect psytrance can have on a psychedelic experience. When your very high, those background noises can stir up a complete nonsense in your though process. After all, it is psytrance and suppose to get you into a frame of mind that makes it easy to explore your consciousness. There are artists in the psytrance scene that have a much darker style. I do not believe that is an attempt to brainwash and instil fear.
When you have a difficult experience like this, it is hard to make sense of it all.

I am not doubting the existence of "cults" in which, psychedelics play a role. I gave an example of one earlier in the thread. They are a big organization and still go around the jam band scene. Due to extreme usage of psychedelics on tour, some people are easily manipulated by these people.

But, from what you have said in your posts I believe you just had a "difficult" psychedelic experience and you are having a hard time grasping

To be honest, I am not even going to bother to reply with anything more than this message as you did not read all my posts or even the ones with my general point. Nothing of what you are saying is the point of this thread. The point I am trying to make is not "in my head", it is shared among many people. that was one specific negative example that you keep focusing on. Read what I am actually trying to get across.