Opioids Any advice on how to avoid addiction to codeine?

[invert]

If (an essentially opiate-naive) someone is starting taking codeine recreationally (say, at between 90-120 mg orally, of an evening, initially) and wants to reduce the likelihood of getting addicted to it (and of developing tolerance), what sort of schedule of use would be advised? Like, how many days in a row would likely be too much; how much of a gap should one leave between periods of use etc?

Of course, there's always a risk of addiction, and it depends on many things; but in the interests of harm reduction, I'd like to be able to give someone advice on what would be a sensibleish schedule of use (or at least be able to tell them what would be seriously reckless and near-certain to lead to addiction).

Another, related question... does anyone have any experience of avoiding addiction to one addictive drug by doing a sort of "crop rotation" of different drugs? Like, if one took codeine a couple of evenings, then benzos a couple of evenings, then ketamine a couple of evenings, and then lay fallow for a day (and then repeated that schedule ad infinitum), might that suffice to avoid getting addicted to any of the individual drugs? :D *shrugs* Just a thought; I've no idea if it makes sense.

(Oh and forgive me if I should've put this in Basic Drugs Discussion, or if I'm duplicating an existing thread.)

 

[Sprout]

If you can get high off 90-120mg of codeine then do yourself a favour and don't use frequently. Trust me, your tolerance will sky-rocket very, very, very quickly.
No-one can give a quantitative schedule that will cause or avoid addiction - it ain't that simple. So all I can give is my own experience. A few years back I could get high off the same dose as you, then after two or three years of using weekly/fortnightly I was up to 400mg of codeine and getting not much more than a bit warm and itchy - certainly no nodding.
Please don't use more frequently than once a week, and in all probability that is too much as it becomes a habit - "Friday becomes Highday" kind of thing.
I started in the same position as you, but now it'd probably take around 60mg of morphine to give the same buzz that 120mg of codeine used to get me, and it sucks.

Cherish your low tolerance, pal, it ain't gonna last.

 

[Crashing]

You can't stop a psychological addiction. The more times you take it the more that gap closes. Physically speaking, taking it once every 3 days will give you enough time to not become dependent.

The 'crop rotation' (nice term by the way) does prevent physical tolerance but your inability to be sober much will probably eventually might lead you to becoming hooked on something specific.

Maybe you're a garbagehead like me. 8(

 

[Sprout]

I'd avoid your "crop rotation" scheme in all honesty; best case scenario you wouldn't become physically hooked to any. But, you could also gain an addiction to every single drug in the combo, eventually you'll rationalise using all together.
Not good.

 

[invert]

Thanks for the advice, both. Makes sense.

So, if I've understood rightly, even once-fortnightly use of 120 mg codeine could lead to tolerance and addiction (and at least did do that in your case, SOS).

And crop rotation could help to prevent physiological dependence (but not at the schedule I suggested, as that would involve twice weekly codeine, which would be enough to get addicted by itself, going by what SproutOnSmack said), but would create a psychological addiction to being high every evening which would be tricky in itself and could lead into physiological dependence on one or other specific drug.

 

[Sprout]

Not to be all preachy and I know how cliched this sounds... but: opiates are not something you really want to get involved in - it's impossible to describe how much they can take over your life, because the mental aspect of every single problem dissappearing, leaving you in a warm, apathetic blanket is too good.

 

[invert]

'crop rotation' (nice term by the way)

Cheers, I was well pleased with it. :D

Maybe you're a garbagehead like me. 8(

Oh this question genuinely is for someone who isn't me in this instance: I don't pseudo-SWIM any more than I SWIM (or swim, for that matter). If it's about me, I'll either say it's about me, or ask the question entirely abstractly (without reference to any supposed person).

But as it happens, yeah, I guess I am. I am a fairly relentless and stupid drug-pig, tbh. (I would never be this sensible about myself. I've never taken the possibility of addiction into account when abusing drugs I like. But I would hate to see a friend become enslaved to addiction.)

 

[invert]

Not to be all preachy and I know how cliched this sounds... but: opiates are not something you really want to get involved in - it's impossible to describe how much they can take over your life, because the mental aspect of every single problem dissappearing, leaving you in a warm, apathetic blanket is too good.

Yeah, I can well imagine. So the more troubled one is, the more vulnerable one would be to the codeine, too. Something better saved for when one doesn't need it, as it were.

Rather tangentially, I've always wondered if Tim Minchin's song "Moment of Bliss" is about opiates, but I don't know opiates well enough myself to be sure. (Can't find it on youtube, but it exists as a torrent, and its lyrics are here: http://www.timminchin.com/timmy-the-dog/moment-of-bliss/ ). Also, his "You Grew On Me", ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frNpdG4F9mw ) which purportedly is using cancer as a metaphor for love, but sounds like it's using cancer and love as metaphors for insidious addiction (again possibly to opiates). Just curious to know what someone more familiar with opiates might think of those songs. Perhaps they're just more generally about, well, bliss, and addiction, and not specifically opiates. *shrugs*

(Oh, but the final line of "you grew on me": how fast a little mole can grow on you... "little mole" = "molecule" ... surely about drug addiction of some sort at least.)