Opioids Opiates are absolutely ridiculous

[burn out]

What stupid, retarded drugs opiates are. After all is said and done, I would have to rank them amongst the worst drugs out there despite how wonderful they may seem. The reason I say this has everything to do with withdrawal and tolerance.

Every other drug (except perhaps benzos) can be used in a reasonable way without causing tremendous afterward. With opiates you pay dearly for all the pleasure they induce. Let me give an example. I recently quit dipping tobacco. I used to go through a can of dip a day, which is probably equiv to smoking about a pack of cigarettes. One day, I decided to stop. I experienced no withdrawal symptoms, at least none that bothered me.

Now with opiates on the other hand, I have been trying to taper off for weeks. I am down to doing about half a rinse at a time and have been at this very low level for quite some time. Its barely enough to even feel anything, yet when I stop entirely, I still experience withdrawal. Nothing bad of course, but I can't sleep, toss and turn all night, just from trying to stop doing a couple rinses of heroin a day. That would be like having withdrawals from drinking 1/4 a beer a day. Other drugs just dont produce withdrawals like opiates do. You can get way more high from other drugs and then be fine later, whereas with opiates even getting a tiny bit high leads to problems later.

 

[Ziiirp]

Good harm reducing statement. But could you please explain how much a rinse is ? What happens if you taper down to a quarter "rinse" for a while before kicking it completely ? To the comparison with alcohol. I think I've heard stories, that former alcoholics can get serious withdrawal when drinking just half a beer after being clean for while. It has something to do with addiction memory. Just try to taper further and be patient, sorry if that sounds pseudo wise.

 

[Ninae]

Opiates are rough to get off - but from my personal experience benzos and Lyrica were just as bad or even worse (though I guess it also depends on how much you use and if you IV). I'm also pretty sure some stimulants like heavy use of Crystal meth can be pretty hellish to get off.

Plus people react very individually to coming off different drugs - a lot depends on their health, level and kind of use, etc. Also many simply substitute one addiction for another similar enough to avoid many withdrawal symptomps. I can be easy to say Lyrica has no withdrawals if you exchange it for benzos or alcohol, for one example.

 

[Fire&Water]

"How wonderful they seem"...WTF, bub - millions of people couldnt even get out of bed to work if there were no opiates to help block chronic pain.

 

[paranoid android]

I have been addicted to alcohol, opiates (mostly morphine and dilaudid but also oxycodone and fentanyl), benzos, gabapentin, lyrica and IV coke. Personally out of all those opiate withdrawal is the least painful for me. Alcohol withdrawals are absolutely horrible and it beat benzo withdrawals by a mile in terms of how hard it was to get off it. I damn near killed myself a few times trying to go cold turkey and i only got off it with the aid of Valium and temazepam. Gabapentin/pregabalin withdrawals where absolutely excruciating and the withdrawals seem to last forever. My insurance stopped paying for gabapentin for awile so i had to go through 2 weeks of hellish withdrawals from that. It sort of feels like benzo withdrawals but is more painful. Every touch felt like i was being electrocuted or something. As for IV coke that was the one drug that nearly killed me. I can handle physical withdrawals but the psychological withdrawals from IV coke where absolutely the worst i have been through. Plus the coke fucked up my head so much that my close friends could notice a difference in me for a long time after.

I would take opiate withdrawal over those any fucking day thank you very much . Not to mention the fact that i would have blown my head off years ago due to pain if not for opiates and i will be on them for life more or less.

 

[Crashing]

I think we can assume the OP is prefacing under Recreational Terms, not medicinal. IMO, This forum should never really be concerned with medical topics in my opinion because it is not comprised of doctors for the most part.

Also, he isn't comparing cold turkey detox. OP also seems to be exclusively talking about a taper strategy, which conversely works quite well with benzos. alcohol, tobacco, but seems to be impossible to do with opiates for the majority of people. Just some things to consider. I agree saying they are retarded is a bit over generalized.

 

[Ninae]

Gabapentin/pregabalin withdrawals where absolutely excruciating and the withdrawals seem to last forever. My insurance stopped paying for gabapentin for awile so i had to go through 2 weeks of hellish withdrawals from that. It sort of feels like benzo withdrawals but is more painful. Every touch felt like i was being electrocuted or something. QUOTE]

Wow, I'm glad to hear someone else say that. I think people who scoff at it just haven't experienced the worst of it, or maybe aren't as predisposed to it for some reason.

For me it was worse than both opiate and benzo WD - kind of like a combination of both. Even opiates didn't help much, which kills most of benzo withdrawals for me. And it lasted 10 full days before I got better.

I think the worst for me was that I'd never experienced benzo withdrawals before - but it was a viscious form of it with seriously life-threatening symptomps like seizures and lung-failure. And the anxiety and depression was just abysmal. Having said that, I'd been abusing the hell out of them for a year, but still shows what they can do.

 

[BigDiggerNick]

Benzo withdrawal is extremely dangerous and could be lethal, and on top of that don't produce a high like opiates or weed, it's just apathy and relaxation, maybe a little drunk feeling, but that's it. So imo benzos are the worst drug ever. Though I do agree opiates are also bad, but at least they produce a high. I don't believe opiate withdrawal is lethal, but I could be wrong.

 

[Chipping Away]

I agree about benzos being the worst .

 

[bingey]

I disagree.

 

[Znegative]

Regardless of the withdrawals (I've heard that GHB is actually worse than Benzo withdrawal, so I would think-that if one finds benzo's a bitch, than GHB would be hell), I would say that they don't automatically make a whole family of substances "stupid". Opiate/Opioid Narcotics are actually quite incredible drugs, and we're lucky to be in society's advanced enough to have easy access to them in cases of extreme pain, trauma and chronic suffering. What's wonderful about them is that they are one of the few drugs that can mask the symptoms of an ailment without treating the cause of the pain...Now clearly they are all very addictive, but most users knew that going into there first bag/OC/et...

Every other drug (except perhaps benzos) can be used in a reasonable way without causing tremendous afterward.

Do you mean that with other drugs you can use them without suffering terribly upon discontinuation (ending use)? If so, that's a very naive statement. Alcohol, if anything, I would say is the "stupidest" drug out there (I don't hate people that drink fyi-just trying to make a point). It destroys just about every organ in your body when used alcoholically, and the withdrawals can be fatal, in fact I believe that they are even more dangerous than benzo WD if someone decides to kick without any medical supervision or medication.

Also, ever heard of IV cocaine/Crack, or Methamphetamine? Every street Junky I've ever talked too has sworn that IV cocaine and Crack were far worse than having a heroin habit. Heavy stimulant users, or even newbies who go on a binge, are sure to have a miserable come down. Often people become psychotic and begin to hallucinate visually and otherwise. Just check out the MDPV mega thread.

I have been trying to taper off for weeks. I am down to doing about half a rinse at a time and have been at this very low level for quite some time. Its barely enough to even feel anything, yet when I stop entirely, I still experience withdrawal. Nothing bad of course, but I can't sleep, toss and turn all night, just from trying to stop doing a couple rinses of heroin a day. That would be like having withdrawals from drinking 1/4 a beer a day

First off, tapering down with heroin is a stupid idea. If its absolutely the only thing you have or can get, then use it, but I'd try Loperamide than attempt to take care of my withdrawals by doing rinse/cotton shots. Heroin's just too short acting. Also, cotton shots are absolutely horrible to do, its very easy to get incredibly sick from this practice.

Now, you claim that heroin withdrawals are different from alcohol withdrawals in this instance, because with heroin you still get withdrawal if you don't do several cotton shots a day, which you say is like getting withdrawals from drinking 1/4 of a beer if your an alcoholic.

Well the truth is, I am willing to bet that if an alcoholic had actually managed to taper down to drinking 1/4 of a beer a day, that he would get withdrawal upon stopping. I also don't believe that an alcoholic would be able to taper down to such a low dose, but that's besides the point. Also, you're lucky that you didn't get withdrawal from the Dip because quitting smoking has been super fucking hard for me.

I'm not getting all up in arms because I like opiates, but because your reasons for there stupidity are all subjective, and could be applied to basically any other drug with addictive potential. Just because a drug's discontinuation results in a withdrawal syndrome does not make it more stupid, evil, etc (I mean, how do you feel about Crack Cocaine?). In fact, it could be seen as a positive thing as otherwise I bet a lot more people would be using heroin.

oh, and btw, I'll keep this open a bit longer but I don't see a question in this post, just your opinions. If you don't want the thread closed please make your question more obvious so others can help.

 

[Jabberwocky]

What stupid, retarded drugs opiates are. After all is said and done, I would have to rank them amongst the worst drugs out there despite how wonderful they may seem. The reason I say this has everything to do with withdrawal and tolerance.

Every other drug (except perhaps benzos) can be used in a reasonable way without causing tremendous afterward. With opiates you pay dearly for all the pleasure they induce.

With opiates, the thing you have to remember is that for all the pleasure they give you, you will get equal to or greater than in pain. This is true.

To quote William S. Burroughs too, "Junk is not, like alcohol or weed, a means to increased enjoyment of life. Junk is not a kick. It is a way of life."

 

[paranoid android]

Wow, I'm glad to hear someone else say that. I think people who scoff at it just haven't experienced the worst of it, or maybe aren't as predisposed to it for some reason.

For me it was worse than both opiate and benzo WD - kind of like a combination of both. Even opiates didn't help much, which kills most of benzo withdrawals for me. And it lasted 10 full days before I got better.

I think the worst for me was that I'd never experienced benzo withdrawals before - but it was a viscious form of it with seriously life-threatening symptomps like seizures and lung-failure. And the anxiety and depression was just abysmal. Having said that, I'd been abusing the hell out of them for a year, but still shows what they can do.

You just hit the nail on the head right there. I does feel like a combo of opiate and benzo withdrawals. The only time i have gone through benzo withdrawals was when i was living in a city about a thousand miles away from my doctor and i ran out of opiates and benzos! So i had to go through both at the same time :D . I was on 120mg's of morphine a day plus i was getting 90 4mg dilaudid's a month. I was also prescribed 6mg's of clonazepam a day though i could get by on 4mg's without any trouble. I couldn't get a doctor to even write a script for fucking 30mg codeine tablets ffs let alone morphine. A doctor was generous enough to give me 10 whole pills of 2mg clonazepam which i had to make last me nearly 2 weeks! On top of that i caught pneumonia at the same time so it was kind of hard to tell what was causing what. How i got through that i will never know but no joke it was traumatizing to say the least and it took me a good 3 months to feel back to normal.

I am prescribed 800mg's of gabapentin 4 times a day which is a fucking ridiculous dose not to mention you are pissing away alot of gabapentin by not taking smaller doses more frequently. I have been on gabapentin since 2007 i think so no doubt the length of time i have been on it and the high dose played a part in how bad the withdrawals where. I tapered myself down to 1600mg's a day now. I don't think it's actually helping my neuropathic pain at all so besides stopping my restless leg syndrome it's most likely doing more harm then good. Taking my last dose of clonazepam about a half hour before bed works just as well at stopping RLS or i could try one of the drugs actually meant for RLS.

Benzo withdrawal is extremely dangerous and could be lethal, and on top of that don't produce a high like opiates or weed, it's just apathy and relaxation, maybe a little drunk feeling, but that's it. So imo benzos are the worst drug ever. Though I do agree opiates are also bad, but at least they produce a high. I don't believe opiate withdrawal is lethal, but I could be wrong.

The only benzo i have ever gotten psychologically addicted to was temazepam and it was the only one i have ever gotten any euphoria from. I abused the living shit out of termazepam for the better part of a year thanks to a script happy doctor who would write me out 30 30mg temazepam caps a week . It goes great with other benzos like oxazepam, lorazepam or if you want to be really drowsy Valium. A favorite mix of mine was temazepam and zopiclone. Although zopiclone has shit all effects on me on it's own it's great for boosting benzos. When i was a newbie to benzos i fell on the basement steps, rolled right to the bottom and right through the bathroom fucking door at the bottom of the steps. I never felt a thing despite going right through a fucking door lol

Opiate withdrawals are rarely lethal unless you count suicide of course but people with pre existing illnesses such as heart conditions, fucked up kidneys, etc can run into serious problems. Also if you are going through serious withdrawals and don't take meds to stop the diarrhea and puking you can get seriously dehydrated and possibly get a electrolyte imbalance as well or fuck up your kidneys. I always use lopermide, a strong anti-nausea drug like Thorazine or methotrimeprazine (the latter of which knocks you out for most of the day which can be helpful but like all anti-psychotics these can be very dangerous) or failing that dimenhydrinate, codeine and i stock up on Gatorade and soup. That makes withdrawals bearable atleast.

But yes opiate withdrawals can kill you it's just very rare. I remember a case where a hospital in my area got sued by the family of a person who was on methadone and was admitted to hospital but they wouldn't give him his fucking done. He ended up dying of a heart attack despite complaining about chest pains for a day or 2 before he died. But they treat anyone on any opiate like shit so they are going to treat someone who is on methadone even worse. On the very few occasions i have gone to a hospital they always assume i am there looking for opiates once i mention that i am on them for chronic pain. I told a nurse once why the fuck would i come to a hospital and wait 8 fucking hours for a lousy 5mg's of morphine or 50 to 100mg's of Demerol when i have my own painkillers? She didn't exactly like that . I mean ffs i have trigeminal neuralgia aka the suicide disease with a neurologist and 2 pain specialists to back up that diagnoses what the fuck else am i supposed to take? The last time i went to a ER i swore i would never go to a hospital again unless it was in a ambulance and i couldn't move because i can't stand stupid doctors and nurses looking down on me just because i am on opiates.

 

[Ninae]

Hahah. The last time I went to the ER on the verge of death from benzo WD, with full psychosis and seizures, they acted like I was there just to get some drugs for fun and like they were doing me a massive criminal favour by giving me a script of 25 Oxasepam. When I was just trying to save my life and like 25 Oxasepam would even be worth the effort for someone chasing a high.

 

[PurpleKush1]

What stupid, retarded drugs opiates are. After all is said and done, I would have to rank them amongst the worst drugs out there despite how wonderful they may seem. The reason I say this has everything to do with withdrawal and tolerance.

Every other drug (except perhaps benzos) can be used in a reasonable way without causing tremendous afterward. With opiates you pay dearly for all the pleasure they induce. Let me give an example. I recently quit dipping tobacco. I used to go through a can of dip a day, which is probably equiv to smoking about a pack of cigarettes. One day, I decided to stop. I experienced no withdrawal symptoms, at least none that bothered me.

Now with opiates on the other hand, I have been trying to taper off for weeks. I am down to doing about half a rinse at a time and have been at this very low level for quite some time. Its barely enough to even feel anything, yet when I stop entirely, I still experience withdrawal. Nothing bad of course, but I can't sleep, toss and turn all night, just from trying to stop doing a couple rinses of heroin a day. That would be like having withdrawals from drinking 1/4 a beer a day. Other drugs just dont produce withdrawals like opiates do. You can get way more high from other drugs and then be fine later, whereas with opiates even getting a tiny bit high leads to problems later.

I completly disagree, while the wd's are pretty bad, in my opinion long term use of and benzos or alcohol is even worse to withdrawal from. Though they are ion the same range of hellishness, delirium tremens for alcohol and seizures and the rebound anxiety in the process in benzo wd is no joke either. Keep in my mind everyone is different, i am addicted to smokes and ive been smoking seriously for a little more than 5 years. I detoxed from an opiate habit i had for a few months, from stims but i cant let go smokes. Belive me i tried and i went mad in a matter of 20 hours, i ran straight to the store. CIgarettes are one of the most difficult susbtance to quit in my opinion,especially to those with an addictive personality. The withdrawals are not as bad as benzos or alcohol, but its the whole avaibility and routine, a smoke when you wake up,before eating,after eating,waiting ath the bus stop etc etc that makes i difficult too. But i agreee though that opiates are a pretty addictive drug. But the euphoria I would get from heroin is yet to be surpassed, mdma,mda,meth,hcl and freebse coke are not on that level. Opiates are just something else.

 

[Rob27shred]

To the OP, severe opie WDs do suck but there are many other drugs that can take a bigger chunk of your soul. Namely the 2 you used as examples alcohol & benzos. Also as Znegative said rinsing cottons is a terrible idea, you can get all kinds of bad news bears from that, even septicemia. By the way, how do you have cottons to rinse if your supposedly just using rinsed cottons? Either your still using fresh dope & that's why your still getting WDs or your rinsing somebody else's used cottons. If your doin the latter you really should look into rehab, suboxone, or methadone. I know lifer junkies who wouldn't do that to keep themselves from shitting their own pants.

 

[dankplantgrower]

I dont understand heroins ability to draw people in as much as it occurs, I didnt find it nearly as romantic as other stuff, say meth or benzos. For example on meth you can clean big messes like nothing, have great sex, be social and talkative, and basically do what you need to do throughout the day. On heroin, you just vegetate. The first time I used heroin I insufflated, got a mild case of the nods without any good euphoria, and decided to alter ROA in the future. The 2nd time I used foil, and just when I felt like I was approaching the real euphoric effects, I realized I couldnt stay awake. The next day, I threw up 5 or 6 times and couldnt even keep water down. I gifted the rest of the bag to a buddy and gave up on opiates.

I felt like I had paid 25 dollars to go to sleep, and make myself sick to boot. I couldve dont the same with OTC sleeping pills for 3 bucks or so. Paying good money to put yourself into a sleepy stupor just doesnt make sense to me. 25 bucks worth of weed is 3 or days good smoke, as well as sleep inducing. 25 bucks worth of benzo is 10 bars of benzo warmness, could last a week. 25 bucks worth of shrooms might only be a single dose, but you trip for 6 hours, and it teaches you lessons. I dont mean to knock opiate for those who use it, but it just seems like its much more of a waste than other drugs.

 

[SuperHans68]

I dont understand heroins ability to draw people in as much as it occurs, I didnt find it nearly as romantic as other stuff, say meth or benzos. For example on meth you can clean big messes like nothing, have great sex, be social and talkative, and basically do what you need to do throughout the day. On heroin, you just vegetate. The first time I used heroin I insufflated, got a mild case of the nods without any good euphoria, and decided to alter ROA in the future. The 2nd time I used foil, and just when I felt like I was approaching the real euphoric effects, I realized I couldnt stay awake. The next day, I threw up 5 or 6 times and couldnt even keep water down. I gifted the rest of the bag to a buddy and gave up on opiates.

I felt like I had paid 25 dollars to go to sleep, and make myself sick to boot. I couldve dont the same with OTC sleeping pills for 3 bucks or so. Paying good money to put yourself into a sleepy stupor just doesnt make sense to me. 25 bucks worth of weed is 3 or days good smoke, as well as sleep inducing. 25 bucks worth of benzo is 10 bars of benzo warmness, could last a week. 25 bucks worth of shrooms might only be a single dose, but you trip for 6 hours, and it teaches you lessons. I dont mean to knock opiate for those who use it, but it just seems like its much more of a waste than other drugs.

Well it sounds to me you seem to be a person who enjoys uppers more than downers, which justs seems to match peoples personalities. Im the opposite, uppers dont do it for me while i love to just sit and bathe in the warm bliss. Heroin is portrayed as the big drug with no other drug surpassing it in infamy. I think the whole romantic stuff happens when you get to the needle and the ritual and become associated with it.

 

[Ninae]

I dont understand heroins ability to draw people in as much as it occurs, I didnt find it nearly as romantic as other stuff, say meth or benzos. For example on meth you can clean big messes like nothing, have great sex, be social and talkative, and basically do what you need to do throughout the day. On heroin, you just vegetate. The first time I used heroin I insufflated, got a mild case of the nods without any good euphoria, and decided to alter ROA in the future. The 2nd time I used foil, and just when I felt like I was approaching the real euphoric effects, I realized I couldnt stay awake. The next day, I threw up 5 or 6 times and couldnt even keep water down. I gifted the rest of the bag to a buddy and gave up on opiates.

I felt like I had paid 25 dollars to go to sleep, and make myself sick to boot. I couldve dont the same with OTC sleeping pills for 3 bucks or so. Paying good money to put yourself into a sleepy stupor just doesnt make sense to me. 25 bucks worth of weed is 3 or days good smoke, as well as sleep inducing. 25 bucks worth of benzo is 10 bars of benzo warmness, could last a week. 25 bucks worth of shrooms might only be a single dose, but you trip for 6 hours, and it teaches you lessons. I dont mean to knock opiate for those who use it, but it just seems like its much more of a waste than other drugs.

Maybe you just haven't experienced any opiates you enjoy yet. Heroin is not for everyone. Many find it boring and too sedative, or even dysphoric. It's a street-drug so you don't know what you're getting and usually it's cut to shit and often probably contains more sedatives than opiates. I guess they reckon as long as it knocks you out you'll be satisfied.

But it's dirty and I wouldn't touch it. Pharmaceutical painkillers like Oxycontin are something different. They also have a stimulant effect. One of my favourites was Kratom UEI when it was sold as it was both very stimulating and euphoric.

And it seems strange that someone could enjoy benzos and not opiates. Benzos aren't really euphoric, just gives a sense of calm and mild well-being. Though for someone using stimulants they can be a godsend as they take away all the side-effects from that. Valuing bezos seems to be automatic with stimulant abuse. Apart from that they don't really get better than 2-3 drinks, but you don't care about that when you need them.

 

[username13]

To speak in cliches YMMV.

Personally i think alcohol is far worse, as its so well accepted nwidely used. OP hope you get cleaned up if that is what u want.