-
MDMA &
Empathogenic
Drugs
Welcome Guest! -
MDMA Moderators: Esperighanto
I've been ITCHING to do X/Molly....thanks for this
- Thread starter Stargazer
- Start date
Septonn
Bluelighter
Of course, not using MDMA is almost always better. However, when you use MDMA in a responsible way, it is not all bad.. Just don't abuse the stuff, like a lot of us here have 
Folley
Bluelighter
Until I read this....I wanted X in a bad way....
I have a frined that went through the serotonin drop, depression....that didn't deter me at all...Reading all this, has. Not worth it. I don't want the depression. Thanks BL members.
FUCKING HELL. Do you see what you people do? You scare away people from a MAGICAL substance just because all they read here on BL is horror stories. For every one of those stories, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of amazing ones.
What is the lesson to be learned here? Don't stupidly abuse the drug like everyone else in here did! MDMA can be used in an EXTREMELY safe manner, anyone who says otherwise is denying facts. Of course, it also has the power to cause immense pain when abused.... don't do that, silly!
Something honestly needs to be done about this, ED isn't here to scare away people from MDMA.
The most retarded thing about this is that nearly all of these "comedowns" were triggered by drugs OTHER than MDMA. It's always some piperazine pill or random "molly", or of course occasionally the "I ate 3 grams last weekend and now I'm dying" threads. Just utterly ridiculous.
Folley, BL is a place to exchange HR information about drugs, not to glorify our favorite DOC.
I am not against MDMA use at all. I think it can be a great substance, however, there are certain risks out there that do not exist for other drugs and it is important that people make educated decisions before taking MDMA.
I think the horror stories on ED serve as a warming to others that following the HR guidelines are so important. People are not screaming "don't take E, it ruined my life." rather they are experiencing real problems and are seeking help and answers.
This is not a daily mail hit piece trying to scare housewives.
I am not against MDMA use at all. I think it can be a great substance, however, there are certain risks out there that do not exist for other drugs and it is important that people make educated decisions before taking MDMA.
I think the horror stories on ED serve as a warming to others that following the HR guidelines are so important. People are not screaming "don't take E, it ruined my life." rather they are experiencing real problems and are seeking help and answers.
This is not a daily mail hit piece trying to scare housewives.
Folley
Bluelighter
Harm Reduction is about REDUCING harm.. not scaring people so bad they never want to use the drug in the first place. That may not be the poster's intentions, but here is the proof that it's the outcome, no?
The problem is, with the recent onslaught of threads on the comedown aspect of the drug, that is all people are exposed to. MDMA is much more than something you abuse every week until you cry for a few months and never touch it again. The lesson that people should be taking away from these forums is that MDMA is a dangerous drug.. WHEN ABUSED, and that if used safely harm and risk can be minimized to almost none. I believe MDMA is a very safe drug with unique qualities that make it vastly superior to other drugs in certain situations, and there are many researchers who back that claim up. However I also believe that if you are not careful it can overwhelm you and cause a lot more harm than some other drugs would have been likely to cause.
The key is moderation, and none of these "comedown" threads even mention it. It's just "I took too much, now I'm fucked. Will this last forever?" over and over again..
The problem is, with the recent onslaught of threads on the comedown aspect of the drug, that is all people are exposed to. MDMA is much more than something you abuse every week until you cry for a few months and never touch it again. The lesson that people should be taking away from these forums is that MDMA is a dangerous drug.. WHEN ABUSED, and that if used safely harm and risk can be minimized to almost none. I believe MDMA is a very safe drug with unique qualities that make it vastly superior to other drugs in certain situations, and there are many researchers who back that claim up. However I also believe that if you are not careful it can overwhelm you and cause a lot more harm than some other drugs would have been likely to cause.
The key is moderation, and none of these "comedown" threads even mention it. It's just "I took too much, now I'm fucked. Will this last forever?" over and over again..
futura2012
Bluelighter
Not everyone on here with horror stories has necessarily abused the drug or mixed it.
In YOUR opinion MDMA is extremely safe but not everyone shares that opinion. There are no outright facts saying it is extremely safe infact I would say most of what I read sais the oposite.
If someone is in need of help and reports it on bluelight im not sure if anything does need to be done otherwise you would be corrupting ED into a biased pro drug site and that would be wrong.
There are many more researchers that claim the opposite.
Claiming it is vastly superior to other drugs again is YOUR opinion very debatable.
The majority of those threads are from people in need of help I doubt discussing drug taking moderation is top of their priority list at the time of posting.
The majority of us came to bluelight as it has always been a place to share information about longterm comedowns etc. It is vital for those suffering this information is shared. I have not found any more valuable resource other than here period. That includes info from drs, psychiatrists, hospital etc.
It would be a great shame to turn ED into a "Pro MDMA user vs Comedown User" type flaming war and some of the recent posts I have seen seem to be heading in this direction.
Folley
Bluelighter
I call BS..
On that same website are many studies saying MDMA is EXTREMELY effective at treating PTSD, a condition many other medications cannot touch. That also just so happens to give it amazing recreational qualities as well.. and is why it can be such a damaging drug.
I am not pro-MDMA, I am not anti-MDMA. I'm the man in the middle trying to tell you there is nothing to be afraid of. The drug will only do as much damage as you let it
Futura, you yourself said it was a BZP pill that set off your "comedown", right? Why fight against MDMA?
Suploris
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 51
These forums are biased in a way that most of the posters here are people who have abused the drug. However, A LOT of people use MDMA every year, and most of them come out of it feeling happier than they were before. I have been using MDMA for 2 years now. I always wait 2 months in between uses and will never do more than 200mg in a night. So far my MDMA use has only brought me positive things. I've never had a hangover (apart from feeling a bit tired the next day) and every experience seriously adds something to my life. I've made friends for life because of this drug. It's also enabled me to be more open, honest and confident in my every day life. It's worth it, as long as you stick to the rules.
Clocktower
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2012
- Messages
- 2,041
Is this a troll thread?
I don't think the consensus on this forum is THAT skewed. There are plenty of reports of people taking hundreds of mg of MDMA on a monthly basis and not getting hurt. There are plenty of guidelines for safe use in the sticky threads and all over the place, and very nearly every single one of the "horror" threads is about someone who broke those guidelines.
Firstly OP, if you don't feel comfortable taking MDMA, then by all means don't. Most people in the world don't and are no worse off for it.
Maybe OP is very risk-averse, or doesn't think that he/she has the self-control to use responsibly. In that case, not using is the right decision!
That said, if OP read a few threads on bluelight and then decided that ANY ammount of MDMA is critically dangerous, I think that perhaps OP didn't read carefully or isn't very bright.
I don't think the consensus on this forum is THAT skewed. There are plenty of reports of people taking hundreds of mg of MDMA on a monthly basis and not getting hurt. There are plenty of guidelines for safe use in the sticky threads and all over the place, and very nearly every single one of the "horror" threads is about someone who broke those guidelines.
Firstly OP, if you don't feel comfortable taking MDMA, then by all means don't. Most people in the world don't and are no worse off for it.
Maybe OP is very risk-averse, or doesn't think that he/she has the self-control to use responsibly. In that case, not using is the right decision!
That said, if OP read a few threads on bluelight and then decided that ANY ammount of MDMA is critically dangerous, I think that perhaps OP didn't read carefully or isn't very bright.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Messages
- 181
These do not sound like the words of a harm reduction forum moderator...
"Do you see what you people do?" --> are you serious?!
As a harm reduction forum, people aren't allowed to make "OMG, Ekstasy is AWSOME, amirite?" threads. So logically, what kind of posts will fill up such a forum? Questions about dosage, tips to reduce damage, the occasional thread about regaining magic... but all of these topics have been COMPLETELY exhausted... so what follows next..? Stories about people getting screwed over by this "magical" drug, and LOTS of them.
You can read about this drug's magical properties ALL OVER THE INTERNET. Check out erowid trip reports if you want to read pages upon pages of ravers glorifying the damned thing. There's enough on there to fill up a book and nothing's stopping you from being a contributor. But THIS is a harm reduction forum. A HUGE aspect of harm reduction is understanding the potential consequences of a drug, AS WELL AS its magical properties, which you'll hear about time and time again from friends and the internet.
There are people on this forum who are suffering immensely. Literally lives going from awesome to unimaginably shit overnight. IME, The pain of losing a relative or a friend, getting dumped, getting cheated on etc. does not even come close to such a profound type of suffering, which encompasses every aspect of your life. People have found a place where they can connect with others going through the same thing, share tips about how they can speed up their recoveries and be a part of something while everything else in their life is falling apart (particularly in the first few weeks of a long comedown). To accuse these people of doing something wrong, as a harm reduction moderator, is not just wrong but it's quite a horrible thing to do.
This is especially true since you yourself have admitted to having been through the shit yourself, contemplating suicide at one point if I recall correctly. Since you're fine now, chances are that there are people who exist going through much worse than what you've been through, for much longer, and with far more symptoms... and they have to listen to you tell them they are doing something wrong because you don't like listening to the fact that your favourite drug isn't absolutely perfect... That, my friend, is ridiculous.
Yep, but this lesson won't be learned unless people have someone to learn the lesson from. With everyone kissing Molly's ass all the god damn time, no one is going to learn and people are going to be silly. Looking back on my abusing days, there were plenty of kids chowing down close to a gram in a night thinking this was normal. It's hard to know what constitutes as abuse when all you hear is "MDMA changed my life for the better" and David Nutt going on about how ecstasy is way safer than alcohol (not in every way, unfortunately..). People need both sides of the story, and bluelight is one of the fews places where people can get access to the less pretty side.
Well maybe as a moderator you can start deleting all these posts about people suffering. Or you can group em all into one thread so that less people see them. Then see what will be left of the ED forum.... absolutely nothing!
Folley
Bluelighter
Who have I "accused"? Who have I told they are doing something wrong?
I will not delete anyone's post that deals with their comedown, unless it breaks the rules of course. Everyone deserves to get an answer. But with 5+ threads being bumped everyday by their OP, the forum is constantly covered with threads like "What have I done to myself?" and "Will I ever recover?". I agree that this aspect should be covered in ED, an EXTREMELY part of limiting the damage from MDMA use is understanding that it exists in the first place... I don't however think that every individual case needs it's own thread
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
The answers are nearly always the same anyway, "Get some exercise and eat healthy. You'll get better with time."I tried creating a "MDMA comedown support thread" a while back, but people favored posting in their own thread rather than a general one... and I get that, but it's covering up the forum with negativity.
I brought this topic up in the ED modthread and then this thread was made.. it just frustrates me that people take things to such extremes. I'll be looking into a way we can group the topics into fewer threads yet hopefully still convey the messages that they bring.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Messages
- 181
"FUCKING HELL! Do you see what you people do?" - explain how that is not an accusation aimed at the people I mentioned. Or just don't...?
You are assuming EVERYONE who reads a horror story is going to go out of their way to avoid MDMA. This is not true. People do not give a shit until they get fucked up cause they are often overwhelmed with information about how great MDMA is for everyone and how safe it is. Some people even get fucked up, recover, then forget MDMA has a dark side because of it's powerful euphoric effects. I'll admit, it's hard not to fall in love with MDMA, but you shouldn't let your love for drug affect your judgement and responsibilities as a moderator for a GLOBAL harm reduction forum. You are clearly a sharp, young guy but I really think you need to reconsider your stance on certain areas. What you say and do has a big influence on the thousands of people who read this stuff.
People really do get defensive over MDMA and I'm not surprised. Before this experience I'd do the same whenever someone bad mouthed the drug. People are even willing to be absolute cunts to someone as helpful and intelligent as First Bad Comedown, for e.g., because his advice doesn't apply to them and doesn't shine a particularly positive light on their favourite substance (because he was trying to help those who got royally fucked by it). The guy's a friggin encyclopedia on the subject of recovery for guys like me. It really is a shame, but at the same time, I probably would have done the same a year ago. MD is a truly powerful substance.
I will not delete anyone's post that deals with their comedown, unless it breaks the rules of course. Everyone deserves to get an answer. But with 5+ threads being bumped everyday by their OP, the forum is constantly covered with threads like "What have I done to myself?" and "Will I ever recover?". I agree that this aspect should be covered in ED, an EXTREMELY part of limiting the damage from MDMA use is understanding that it exists in the first place... I don't however think that every individual case needs it's own thread
Well, then it seems there is something inherently wrong with an ecstasy harm reduction forum. Like I mentioned earlier, how much can really be said about ecstasy harm reduction? I could probably write out all the things one would need to know to safely use MDMA on a single side of A4 paper without a problem. So what does that leave us with? MDMA glorification (not allowed, but still deemed okay in some cases it seems) and the dark side of MDMA.
There honestly won't be much of a forum left if you try so solve this "problem". But do what you feel has to be done...
Folley
Bluelighter
You are assuming that I am assuming
I have fought on both sides of this battle. When the "My experiences with MDMA" thread went up, I was a quite loud opponent on the fact that we should not dismiss the dangers of MDMA. Now we are here on the other side of the coin, and I'm trying to explain that MDMA is not a demon. It is not something to be feared, it is a tool to be utilized like any other drug.
I think one of the largest problems currently though, is that fear feeds on more fear. FBC was amazingly helpful to me as I was coming up, but I hate to say he is not always right. I've seen him make some pretty out there claims, and even if he can post pages of anecdotal evidence for them, there is never really anything concrete behind them. People read all these threads and symptom after symptom and it's so fucking easy to self-diagnose all of them. People have even said there is a "Bluelight syndrome"! Don't have a comedown? Hell, just read ED for an hour. You'll feel it then!
also as far as I'm concerned, you can glorify safe MDMA use all you want. It's the abuse I have a problem with
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Messages
- 181
You are assuming that I am assuming
This discussion isn't really going anywhere. You are ignoring large chunks of text and nit-picking little things. Besides, if you did believe people could use their better judgement when dealing with these threads, you wouldn't have such a problem with threads about MDMA related problems. But you clearly do... not much evidence to suggest an unbiased view of MDMA when you open a reply with "Fucking Hell! Do you see what you people are doing."
But people already know this. Most people in ED appear to be worried that these threads are tainting other peoples views of the drug, but they really aren't. You said yourself, I'm assuming that you're assuming that people will stop taking MDMA as a result of these threads. This was not evident in your first response in this thread or responses to me - quite the opposite, in fact. And if people can judge for themselves, why make such a fuss.
FBC was not always right. But there is no way any of his advice could have done anyone any harm - he is an anonymous poster on a forum, not a neurologist, for crying out loud. People should be able to use their brains and separate the excellent information from the questionable stuff. It can be done... I have applied a lot of FBC's advice, and it has helped me so much.
Is self-diagnosis a bigger problem than uninformed ravers going out and caining grams of MD? Is there any way to prove that these people are wrongly diagnosing themselves with all these problems? Again, this "problem" is blown out of proportion and even if it does exist, it's NOT AVOIDABLE, in any sphere of life... People can go on a forum for any sort of problem and wrongly attribute their own circumstances to this problem. Doesn't mean people should STFU about their problems. MDMA DOES fuck people up. These people WILL find ways to connect with each other. Unfortunately, hypochondriacs exist and they may not respond well to this information - THIS IS UNAVOIDABLE. I'm not going to go on a forum full of cancer victims and tell them to stfu about their problems am i?
Except people don't come on a harm reduction forum to glorify the safe use of MDMA. They go on erowid for that stuff or other forums which are all about glorifying the drug.
If you have a problem with abuse, these stories have to be heard. like I said before, there's not that much else to be said on a harm reduction forum anyway. ED is a testament to that fact.
Folley
Bluelighter
Indubitably.
Probably should have closed this earlier, but we'll see where the winds take this thread.
severely etarded
Bluelight Crew
bleh.... YOLO NUGGAH!
lol... I think it's worth a shot at least once. If anything you should learn from this forum is to test your gear and what NOT to do i.e. re-dose, or take more than 4 times a year. In a moderate dose of 100-150 mg, ONE time, it's not gonna fuck you up long term, at least just from one time.
lol... I think it's worth a shot at least once. If anything you should learn from this forum is to test your gear and what NOT to do i.e. re-dose, or take more than 4 times a year. In a moderate dose of 100-150 mg, ONE time, it's not gonna fuck you up long term, at least just from one time.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2012
- Messages
- 181
Well... that's not to say this couldn't have been an interesting - albeit, slightly heated - discussion. In fact, this post sparked some debate about the concept of HR and what it should involve. You argued your points, about some pretty open-ended concepts, in quite a forceful way and so any expression of disagreement necessitated an equally forceful response.
Don't understand why you decided to ignore a lot of the things that I've said. Also don't see the point of closing a thread just because a consensus wasn't reached.
Been thinking exqactly the same thing lately, this place is swamped with threads along the lines of "omg halp I found 4 grams of a random white powder so I decided to eat it all and now my head hurts WAT DO?
Charles Darwin wrote about these people.
Anyone with a thread which contains "I didn't test it but..." should be moved to a special forum called "I don't know what I took but try and help me anyway", rather than laying all the blame at MDMA's door.
Clocktower
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2012
- Messages
- 2,041
I think one of the primary functions of ED is to be a place where people are told that they need to test their product.