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Resolving the male-female courtship paradox and imbalances in the sex market

L

laVoix

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
76
I am puzzled by the paradox that women enjoy sex same as, if not more than men, but still men need be one to initiate the courtship process and somehow sell all that shit trough flirting, organizing dates, escalating physical contact, etc. Also the slightest "mistakes" are not allowed, including anything that can be perceived "strange, spooky, or perverted", especially in the beginning of the relationship while later it might even be tolerated. This leads to a conclusion that human interactions in the initial stages are very much structured and pragmatic, with a lot of "common unwritten rules" and fake courtesies. Which implies that more often than not, the same foundations of a future relationship are set on lies or built by disguising true sides of one's personality, leading to a lot of disagreement and sudden breakthroughs later. Can someone explain this paradox, first concerning the role of male in sex and second concerning the stupid social "norms" that are more often than not going against our personalities?

Second part of the question relates to imbalances in the "markets" for relationships/sex.
Imbalances in terms that there are generally much more guys than girls in venues (bar, disco, etc) supposed to serve for meeting girls...
Imbalances in terms that there are much more guys on dating websites, facebook groups on sex topic, couchsurfing and similar services...
Imbalances in terms that girls are much more often approached than guys...
Which all one smart female friend of mine summarized as following "laVoix, please don't bother me about guys and sex...guys are a commodity...I can go tonight to a disco and have bunch of them line up there to talk to me...my boss is also hitting on me...so what's the point...as you know if there is oversupply in any market, the price we attribute drops to nearly zero"
Can you comment?
 
laVoix said:
But they still don't want someone stalking them, calling 100 times on their phones, raping them....
Click to expand...

If you are old enough to remember trying to find a rare cd at a music store, between the CD and the music enthusiast, the woman are the cd. They are waiting for someone to listen to them and validate their existence. They await the perfect audiophile with an amp and speakers that suit them to select them. They want to choose and be chosen at the same time.
 
Oh for God's sake. All my relationships have been perfectly balanced, I make moves as much as the guy does if not more. Same when I go out. I don't have any problem hitting on a guy, I don't wait around for him to do it and I can say the same about a lot of my female friends. In fact I've noticed they're usually more forward about it than my guy friends are.
I find this to be a massive cliché. Maybe it just depends on where you live but wheer I come from it's really not true.

Imbalances in terms that there are generally much more guys than girls in venues (bar, disco, etc) supposed to serve for meeting girls...
Click to expand...
Have never seen that to be true. In fact I always get the opposite impression.

Imbalances in terms that there are much more guys on dating websites, facebook groups on sex topic, couchsurfing and similar services...
Click to expand...
Wouldn't know.

Imbalances in terms that girls are much more often approached than guys...
Click to expand...
Seriously not true, not where I hang out anyway.

I think it's probably a cultural thing. But I've never seen proof of any of this, except in films. Which don't really count as proof. :\
Out of curiosity, can I ask what country you live in?
(am assuming you're not actually french despite your username?)

Edit:
laVoix said:
But they still don't want someone stalking them, calling 100 times on their phones, raping them....
Click to expand...
NO KIDDING!

Sorry. This debate annoys me because I always do the opposite and know plenty of women who do as well and yet everyone still assumes we're passive and let men do all the work. Not true. :|
 
If you're disguising parts of your personality to meet women, you're not doing it right.

Oh, I don't think men like being stalked/raped, either...
 
Pagey said:
Oh for God's sake. All my relationships have been perfectly balanced, I make moves as much as the guy does if not more. Same when I go out. I don't have any problem hitting on a guy, I don't wait around for him to do it and I can say the same about a lot of my female friends. In fact I've noticed they're usually more forward about it than my guy friends are.
I find this to be a massive cliché. Maybe it just depends on where you live but wheer I come from it's really not true.


Have never seen that to be true. In fact I always get the opposite impression.


Wouldn't know.


Seriously not true, not where I hang out anyway.

I think it's probably a cultural thing. But I've never seen proof of any of this, except in films. Which don't really count as proof. :\
Out of curiosity, can I ask what country you live in?
(am assuming you're not actually french despite your username?)

Edit:

NO KIDDING!

Sorry. This debate annoys me because I always do the opposite and know plenty of women who do as well and yet everyone still assumes we're passive and let men do all the work. Not true. :|
Click to expand...


Pagey, you are not American. American women are usually a pain in the ass with regards to this shit, but it is in no way reflective of natural female behavior.

I think a lot of this behavior is the result of years of female oppression, and women learning how to be women only from women. A man gets a lot of advice on how to be a perfect gentlemen and treat women right (this is a good thing), but I don't really hear a lot of dads or brothers telling their daughters or sisters how to treat men respectfully. As for the repression, women are told from a young age to guard their sexuality constantly, and are stigmatized for defying this norm and being "promiscuous." Meanwhile, men are rewarded for having a large number of sexual conquests, and are encouraged to fuck everything that moves. Not having had enough sexual partners can lead to stigmatization of males from other males, while the opposite holds for females. This also makes females guarded about topics and interactions that might be about sex, leading to paranoia that a dude is trying to either get something out of her or goad her into something, in entirely non-sexual situations for which no sexual implications were intended, either.


I hold that fundamentally, women really aren't all that different from men, but social norms dictate that they behave as such. These social norms are implanted at such a young age that most women likely have no idea what the difference is between their actually sexuality, and the gender ideals they are expected to live up to.

Once again, I consider this an American thing. Our whole culture is fucked where sex is concerned, men and women both.
 
Fair enough, which is why I was askign where the OP came from. I was wondering if it was maybe more of an American thing since I always see it in American films/TV shows.
Still though, in that case, please don't attribute it to all women ;)

Anyway I agree with your post.
 
Have you never heard of "The Rules"?
For very good reasons girls are risk averse in relationships and in their contacts with males.
When young they have no experience to draw on and have to rely on secondhand information and things like "The Rules".
Young men are generally far too eager, self-obsessed and gauche.
 
I think you hang out with the wrong people if these are your views.
 
augustaB said:
Have you never heard of "The Rules"?
For very good reasons girls are risk averse in relationships and in their contacts with males.
When young they have no experience to draw on and have to rely on secondhand information and things like "The Rules".
Young men are generally far too eager, self-obsessed and gauche.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of "The Rules." Should I have?


And girls are at risk for what, exactly? I'm pretty sure I know what you are talking about but I don't want to misstep.
 
Last edited:
And what country you live in lol, USA? :)

You should come to Turkey, the social life here is ZERO even for natives, and if you don't speak Turkish then...well maybe someone could use you as a language practicing tool, like one girl which put an online ad that she wanted to meet up only with foreigners who can help her pass the TOEFL test...

Pagey said:
Oh for God's sake. All my relationships have been perfectly balanced, I make moves as much as the guy does if not more. Same when I go out. I don't have any problem hitting on a guy, I don't wait around for him to do it and I can say the same about a lot of my female friends. In fact I've noticed they're usually more forward about it than my guy friends are.
I find this to be a massive cliché. Maybe it just depends on where you live but wheer I come from it's really not true.


Have never seen that to be true. In fact I always get the opposite impression.


Wouldn't know.


Seriously not true, not where I hang out anyway.

I think it's probably a cultural thing. But I've never seen proof of any of this, except in films. Which don't really count as proof. :\
Out of curiosity, can I ask what country you live in?
(am assuming you're not actually french despite your username?)

Edit:

NO KIDDING!

Sorry. This debate annoys me because I always do the opposite and know plenty of women who do as well and yet everyone still assumes we're passive and let men do all the work. Not true. :|
Click to expand...
 
Haha at least the girl was honest! But I guess I learn something new everyday-I thought social lives were almost the same everywhere. You went to places where people hang out and BAM! New friends. Have you tried reaching out to people you work with? Or do you go to school?
 
laVoix said:
And what country you live in lol, USA? :)

You should come to Turkey, the social life here is ZERO even for natives, and if you don't speak Turkish then...well maybe someone could use you as a language practicing tool, like one girl which put an online ad that she wanted to meet up only with foreigners who can help her pass the TOEFL test...
Click to expand...

No actually, I'm from France and I live in the UK. I just don't get why you're making this massive generalisation when clearly, according to all the posts in this thread, it really isn't true.
But I'm not sure I see the point of that last message/what exactly you meant by it in relation to the original topic.
 
Pagey said:
No actually, I'm from France and I live in the UK. I just don't get why you're making this massive generalisation when clearly, according to all the posts in this thread, it really isn't true.
But I'm not sure I see the point of that last message/what exactly you meant by it in relation to the original topic.
Click to expand...

The relation is, and I think it's valid for all countries, there is no incentive for the people to talk to you anyway, if they can't use you in some way (be it to provide them a free lunch, or help them practice English or whatever...)
Imagine, if you were to have an established social circle of friends and already a "fully booked" lifestyle, would you spend too much time on some random stranger?
 
What does that have to do with women being more passive in relationships or whatever...? I thought that was the issue here?
But yes actually, if I found that person interesting I would continue speaking to them, regardless of whether or not I already had lots of friends.

Again, I don't see the link with the OP.
 
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