sleepness nights have tried everything from...

[laCster]

thanks venrak...


also, sleeping for 8hrs of the time is a 20th century thing, people in the past used to sleep for 3-4 hrs, wake up for 1-3hrs, then sleep for another 3-4hrs. people started sleeping for 8hrs and doing the "9am-5pm" gig after the industrial revolution took off.

when you cant sleep, dont stay in your bed! get up and do something, and realize that YOU are the one who causes the anxiety when you dont sleep. shit people in the army and tweakers go days without shut-eye and still function. i had to get a routine 30mins before bed, exercise frequently, and eat healthy. before bed, i go to the bathroom, brush teeth, take out contacts, and then i did some light yoga/stretching and meditation. does have to be anything fancy, i like bridge position the best. lay with your back on the ground, face up, arms fully extended and palm down to the floor. then with your legs/core push up so that your knees make somewhat of a 90degree angle to look somewhat like this picture -------- ( o_--/\_ ). then just do normal streching for a 10-15mins. put your cellphone on silent or turn it off, and dont turn on any tv. try eating a snack packed with tryptophan (cheese, turkey, milk, ect...) and some fiber 60-90mins before you go to bed so that the meal will keep you full so you dont wake up from hunger pangs.

the brightness of your house lights, and the lighting outside (night and day) regulates your melatonin production. at night, when lights start to dim, the moon comes out, and the sky is black, your body secretes natural melatonin triggering sleepiness and somnolence. this means that before bed make sure to keep the lights on low and dimmed, this means lighting from TV, phones, computers aswell as these synthetic light sources affect your circadian rhythm (decrease melatonin production)

 

[DonMakaveli]

sorry brother, but your tolerance to pills and abuse of pills for the past some years means that pills will never "truly work" for you.

it is time to try alternatives before swallowing and more tablets and capsules. seriously investigate your diet and exercise 3-4 times a week for atleast 15-20mins. try CBT. try therapy, there is so much out there besides drugs man. the drugs are like a band-aid, they temporarily cover up the symptoms; however there is a false bottom my friend! more pills leads to more pills i can tell you that!

i empathize with you because i go through similar PTSD/anxiety/social anxiety or whatever you what to call it, i have anxiety and it sometimes it is extremely difficult to hit the "off" button for my brain when i am trying to sleep. pills work for only so long, then they stop working if you take them daily, and you end up worse than you started! hah! life is a bitch, and then we all die!

Exactly. Listen to this man.

OP, listen to BOTH of these men. Intelligent knowledgeable beasts of men.

 

[Venrak]

Well, shucks.

 

[freehugs]

Cannabis indica

 

[DonMakaveli]

Well, shucks.

Haha funny, no prob bruh

 

[toobent]

thanks venrak...


also, sleeping for 8hrs of the time is a 20th century thing, people in the past used to sleep for 3-4 hrs, wake up for 1-3hrs, then sleep for another 3-4hrs. people started sleeping for 8hrs and doing the "9am-5pm" gig after the industrial revolution took off.

when you cant sleep, dont stay in your bed! get up and do something, and realize that YOU are the one who causes the anxiety when you dont sleep. shit people in the army and tweakers go days without shut-eye and still function. i had to get a routine 30mins before bed, exercise frequently, and eat healthy. before bed, i go to the bathroom, brush teeth, take out contacts, and then i did some light yoga/stretching and meditation. does have to be anything fancy, i like bridge position the best. lay with your back on the ground, face up, arms fully extended and palm down to the floor. then with your legs/core push up so that your knees make somewhat of a 90degree angle to look somewhat like this picture -------- ( o_--/\_ ). then just do normal streching for a 10-15mins. put your cellphone on silent or turn it off, and dont turn on any tv. try eating a snack packed with tryptophan (cheese, turkey, milk, ect...) and some fiber 60-90mins before you go to bed so that the meal will keep you full so you dont wake up from hunger pangs.

the brightness of your house lights, and the lighting outside (night and day) regulates your melatonin production. at night, when lights start to dim, the moon comes out, and the sky is black, your body secretes natural melatonin triggering sleepiness and somnolence. this means that before bed make sure to keep the lights on low and dimmed, this means lighting from TV, phones, computers aswell as these synthetic light sources affect your circadian rhythm (decrease melatonin production)

This is sort of true (I've only scan read your post - lack of time).

In actuality, from an evolutionary perspective 8 hours of sleep each day is significantly less than to what we biologically adapted. ~10 hours is a more accurate and healthy amount of daily sleep. This need not be 10 continuous hours, but 9-10 hours is scientifically proven to be healthier. Can elaborate later if desired.

 

[Mass08]

Don't think it makes sense to add a 3rd insomia thread to BDD so I'll just ask my quick question here since we seem to be doing general insomnia help..

I'm 15 days off heroin and coke...not really sleeping much maybe ~4 hours a night.
My current regimen:
50mg Trazodone
200mg 5-HTP
.02 Clonidine

Do you guys think adding 50mg Benadryll would do anything if that combo isn't doing much? Is opiate PAWS insomnia just impossible to even medicinally break through? Thanks.

 

[laCster]

^ that's what i said. i guess no one merged it earlier

This is sort of true (I've only scan read your post - lack of time).

In actuality, from an evolutionary perspective 8 hours of sleep each day is significantly less than to what we biologically adapted. ~10 hours is a more accurate and healthy amount of daily sleep. This need not be 10 continuous hours, but 9-10 hours is scientifically proven to be healthier. Can elaborate later if desired.

no i totally agree. i need 10 hrs of sleep most nights

 

[Midazle]

Wow was just about to post a thread for this. I have moderate anxiety and lately its gotten a little worse....I have severe intractable pain so trying to sleep is hard enough....and when I say I have tried EVERY SINGLE TYPE OF NON MEDICAL APPROACH for both pain and anxiety I mean it, a family member is a psychologist and I used to be their guniea pig free of charge for anything and everything they might want to try :D Anyways my sleep schedule is screwed and on top of it I'm on OxyContin 20s 2x a day to keep the pain away and if I dont get 8 hours of sleep I get SUPER sedated, its weird I never used to but my disease is progressing and fatigue is part of it unfortunetely so I take Provigil in the mornings but I have to take it super early or I wont sleep. Anyways its 3AM and 20mg OxyContin, 10mg of Oxycodone, and 2mg of Klonopin later and I still feel bright eyed and bushy tailed as hell! For reference I normally take 1mg of Klonopin 20mg OxyContin and I only take 5mg of Oxycodone IR for breakthrough pain but I need to get sleep....my doctor prescribes me 10mg of Ambien but Im so tolerant to the ambien that 10mg does NOTHING, 20mg puts me out (so long as I go RIGHT to bed) apparently the FDA max dose is 10mg, all I know is 10mg of Ambien is 5mg of Diazepam roughly, aka not that big of a deal. Any advice on getting doctor to prescribe more Ambien? this lack of sleep is stressing me out and I usually only take 0.5-1mg of Klonopins and I'd like to not be the poor bastard on like 2000000 Xanax bars a day just to feel normal (LOL). I have anxiety with suspected PTSD type symptoms, basically I can't sleep in a room without seeing all the entrences and hearing sounds around the area, also prefer being near some cover, if I dont have those things then I get adrenaline and cant sleep.

EDIT: BTW I've combined all that with Hydroxizine with some success....I think its the disease wrecking havoc on me. I had blood tests 4 months ago and I had no tracable amounts of Vitamin D in my bones, my lovely old doctors never mentioned this in the 2.5 years it was in my labs Been taking heavy heavy suppliments, would Vitamin D defiency mess with sleep?

 

[ldawg616]

Don't think it makes sense to add a 3rd insomia thread to BDD so I'll just ask my quick question here since we seem to be doing general insomnia help..

I'm 15 days off heroin and coke...not really sleeping much maybe ~4 hours a night.
My current regimen:
50mg Trazodone
200mg 5-HTP
.02 Clonidine

Do you guys think adding 50mg Benadryll would do anything if that combo isn't doing much? Is opiate PAWS insomnia just impossible to even medicinally break through? Thanks.

. Ask your doctor for atarax or you could increase the trazodone to 100mg, if that helps you sleep, just take a little more of it

 

[laCster]

^ good suggestion idawg616

hydroxyzine works well for sleep and has minimal side-effect because it has no mACH affinity (Ki > 1000) like almost all TCA aka trazodone

 

[shreddedlettuce]

While reading this I had a thought, and have to add it to this thread so that if someone out there has any experience with this they can share it with us.
Again, it's just a thought, I have no idea if it would work or not, but then why did I think of it.

A nice warm jacuzzi, with the water jets "massaging" your upper back (trapezius muscles + neck) and if you get to a point where you are feeling relaxed, get out and lie down, who knows, it might work.
Just thinking about it sitting here in a bad posture typing with sleeping pills on hand, I would give it a go before taking my hypnotic.

In an hour this might look like complete crap to me, but the jacuzzi is more tempting at this very point in time, than a tablet.

OMG, I can't believe I'm actually posting this.

 

[Venrak]

^Haha it's all good, post away!

I'll condone a jacuzzi over a bunch of pills any day.


That wasn't supposed to rhyme.

 

[laCster]

^actually guys, it is bad to raise your body temperature before you go to bed. taking a warm bath will cause an increase of body temperature; sleep is when your body is actually trying to cool itself down. during sleep, your body temp drops 3 or 4 degrees Fahrenheit, which is why most people prefer a cool, as in temperature cool (cold), sleeping environments. excess body heat caused from taking warm showers/baths or exercising to close to bed time will cause hyperhydrosis, otherwise known as "night sweats." even if i dont sit in a sauna or exercise or do anything to raise my heart rate/temp, i still sweat in my sweat sometimes, mostly when i am lowering my opiate dose or in WD. cannabis helps night sweats alot, too bad i am not allowed to that party :/

i usually wake up 3-4 times a night drenched from head to toe in a puddle of sweat if i havent taken my meds, or if it is too hot, or just because my body wants to fuck with me and make me sweat bullt. i usually have to change a tee-shirt or boxers, but the sheets and blanket(s) still feel damp and my body feels sticky, which creates even more trouble sleeping...

i suggest eating a dairy snack with fiber and protein. cottage cheese and almonds, crackers and cheese, fruit and yogurt. i also suggest getting a sleeping routine 30 mins before which includes turning off all media devices that will distract you from sleep or wake you up (phones, computers, TV, ect..), brushing teeth, and other grooming. the most important part is the last 15 mins; this part include doing meditation and yoga-like-stretching. dont know any yoga moves? do some regular stretching while practicing deep, slow breathing (in for 4secs, hold for 7, exhale for 8. do this a couple times, then just focus on the air going into your stomach and expanding diaphram and leaving. in with good, out with bad, and think to yourself " inahle.......exhale.....inhale....exhale..inhale.,,,,) then get into bed.

another thing to watch out for is clocks. make sure your clock is hidden and several feet from your bed so that so that you have to get out of bed to turn off your alarm. turn your clock around so that if you wake up in the middle in the night, you dont freak out and think "omg it is 3am, i really need to get bac to bed! i have work in the morning!" this way, when you wake up you can practice your breathing. if you cant fall back asleep in 15-30 mins, GET OUT OF BED!! DO NOT LAY IN BED TOSSING ANY TURNING!! you will condition your brain to associate being awake with your bed, which is bad! your bed is for sleep and sex, THAT IS IT!! nothing else!!! dont sit, lay, bounce, ect.. on your bed unless you are seriously set on trying to get some shut-eye. i found this to really work for me because my nighttime ritual used to be watch tv for 30-90 mins, then try to sleep...and i wondered why i had such poor/little sleep!!!!

once i changed my routine up, eating a sleep-supporting snack, swallowing my multivitamin/supplements/b-complex, brushing teeth/shaving/mouthwash/face-wash/contacts, then 15mins of a little yoga and stretching, and i am good! changing my routine combined with exercise, diet, holistic herbs, and occasional pills and i always sleep well.... bisdes im in withdrawal but that is because of withdrawal.....

i like a fan and air-purifier thing in my room because they make a nice, constant, white-noise-like sound. some people like to have a relaxing sound cd with ocean and jungle and mellow and soothing music and sounds before bed. that is acceptable, just dont play any rap, metal, screamo, intense dubstep, or just in general intense, up beat songs htat get you stimulated. i personally like disposition by tool or aqueous transmission by incubus, chill songs, that are melow, maybe a little trippy, but relaxing... something i can focus on rather than focusing on my thoughts. weed (indica) because i focus on my body high instead of my thoughts and i fall asleep in 5-15mins and sleep like a baby.

 

[JarBag]

How did seroquel not knock you out?? My god.Slept for two days and woke up in some kind of trance the first time I did it.

Careful of its side effects.. I know you can say this of all drugs, but that sheet hospitalized me.

Seroquel for 2 months then going off, gave me insomnia for 7 months. Not worth it..

As far as trying everything... Not too sure what to say but I'm sure some other peeps here can help out!

 

[RobotRipping]

well i'm trying hydroxyzine out now, not near as sedating or fucked up as seroquel but it's definitely not going to put me out at 50mg. I wish i had a decent solution for insomnia, i think sleep hygiene is the most important thing, if you can't get to sleep in bed then do something else and just don't fight with yourself about getting to sleep.

FWIW at first seroquel would hit me like a train and knock me out but after a while i started to get a tolerance to the sedative effects but not the side effects, i made a post about seroquel sleep paralysis which made me quit taking it. I definitely don't recommend it unless you have schizophrenia. it also increases anxiety for me, so hydroxyzine is a better solution, at least my heart doesn't feel like it's going to explode with it in comparison to seroquel.

 

[Foreigner]

In actuality, from an evolutionary perspective 8 hours of sleep each day is significantly less than to what we biologically adapted. ~10 hours is a more accurate and healthy amount of daily sleep. This need not be 10 continuous hours, but 9-10 hours is scientifically proven to be healthier. Can elaborate later if desired.

Not sure I agree with this. Sleep requirements tend to fluctuate according to differing variables. People naturally go through ebb and flow periods where they need less or more sleep. The societal model of sleep has changed a lot over the years. In the Victorian era for example, it was common for sleep to be divided into "first" and "second" sleep, each period lasting about 4 hours. After first sleep, families would get up and do laid back activities around the home, before taking their second sleep.

In my research I have not come across the solid claim that 10 hours is best. What I have discovered is that the monophasic pattern (all your sleep in one big chunk) is unnatural for more than 80% of the human population, but is the enforced model because it was the most efficient for industrialism and modern capitalism. The majority of the world needs biphasic sleep: the largest chunk happening at night, with a nap during the day. After that, there are varying requirement groups in the polyphasic category. Some people are on the extreme end of polyphasic, where they are awake and asleep for 2-3 hours at a time.

 

[toobent]

Not sure I agree with this. Sleep requirements tend to fluctuate according to differing variables. People naturally go through ebb and flow periods where they need less or more sleep. The societal model of sleep has changed a lot over the years. In the Victorian era for example, it was common for sleep to be divided into "first" and "second" sleep, each period lasting about 4 hours. After first sleep, families would get up and do laid back activities around the home, before taking their second sleep.

In my research I have not come across the solid claim that 10 hours is best. What I have discovered is that the monophasic pattern (all your sleep in one big chunk) is unnatural for more than 80% of the human population, but is the enforced model because it was the most efficient for industrialism and modern capitalism. The majority of the world needs biphasic sleep: the largest chunk happening at night, with a nap during the day. After that, there are varying requirement groups in the polyphasic category. Some people are on the extreme end of polyphasic, where they are awake and asleep for 2-3 hours at a time.

Well, you've really elaborated on what I elucidated: that 8 hours sleep per day is not only not optimal, but on an evolutionary scale not common.

And

This need not be 10 continuous hours

is precisely what you expand upon here:

The majority of the world needs biphasic sleep: the largest chunk happening at night, with a nap during the day.

So, where I said I can elaborate later if desired, you've really done this for me, as I see no inconsistencies in your expansion of my brevity.

Edited to add the following:

Not sure I agree with this. Sleep requirements tend to fluctuate according to differing variables. People naturally go through ebb and flow periods where they need less or more sleep.

This is an important statement I neglected to note. Sleep requirements are relative to certain variables, most specifically homeostatic effect which is a necessity to (most usually) restore balance from a sympathetic dominant state due to the exogenous ectodermic stimuli (with endogenous physiological responses) we're all affected by in modern life; work, computers, gaming, commuting, television, medication, exercise, relationships, etc.

In effect this creates a very real upward trend, i.e. more sleep is required than the generic 8 hours. And the only fluctuating would be dependant on acute extending into chronic life-changes - which we very rarely experience until requirement where fluctuation would lead to toward less sleep, other usual variables both acute and chronic during most individual's experience require an increase in sleep demands.

The societal model of sleep has changed a lot over the years. In the Victorian era for example, it was common for sleep to be divided into "first" and "second" sleep, each period lasting about 4 hours. After first sleep, families would get up and do laid back activities around the home, before taking their second sleep.

I'm not concerned with societal models, just biological (neurophysiological) facts and necessities. Most societal paradigms are not optimal for the human biological organism whatsoever.

 

[pasha]

Nice post Foreigner.

I remember reading and hearing every now and then that between 8-9 hours is the optimum. Why has become somewhat of an accepted phrase?

 

[vixin66]

Remeron is used as an anti-depresent, but recently it has been advertised as a sleep aid. If you try it get the generic form, otherwise they will rape you for the cost. I have been on every anti-deppressent out there, I couldnt take remeron because it would knock me out for 16 hours. Trazodon will work, but there is a limited effect time. You need to take it, Lay down, Dont get up, It will put you to sleep. On the down side, it dosent last long before you wake up. if you dont keep your butt in bed you"ll be up for the night.