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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Theology Megathread

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rickolasnice said:
Religion causes more harm than good, imo.
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I'll bite. :D

I find statements like this as obnoxious as ones which claim religion is necessary for everyone. You do realise Christianity is just one form of religion, and even within C., there are many peaceful folks who don't go about hating on others. There are bad apples everywhere.

I think religion is a tool, but those who abuse it or do harm in its name are to blame, not religion as a grand whole itself. I have personally found religion useful, a tool for good in my life, so I do take offense at being lumped in with fundamentalist crazies.
 
rickolasnice said:
Creationists, 99.9% of the time, just don't know anything about evolution.
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Whilst that may well be true in many cases, I do think there's also a hardcore who do know enough about it to know better but simply refuse to accept it cos it fucks with their religious sensibilities. Which is silly, kinda unnerving, and totally unnecessary. If the Catholics are big enough to accept that certain bits of the Bible - specifically the creation bits - are not literally true and that evolution is very obviously a fact then I really don't see why so many fundamentalist-types can't just accept it and move on. There's no reason to be wilfully ignorant just cos you're religious. You can accept basic facts about the world you live in and also believe in... less well-evidenced stuff at the same time.

Thank fuck we don't really get much of that Creationist lunacy over here. Is fukkin hilarious to watch some of their stuff online though - comedy gold. There's one some bloke did about how the dragons mentioned in the Bible are actually dinosaurs who breathed fire cos their nostrils were so small the friction caused their breath to ignite. Truly next-level stupidity <3
 
Notice I said: In my opinion :p I didn't state it as absolute truth..

I agree.. they can be helpful tools.. Unfortunately we live in a world where they always have, are and always will be tools often use for harm. But sorry.. You're right.. I'm MAINLY talking about Christianity, Judaism, Islam and possibly sikhism (although, to be fair, i don't really know much about the latter).. Oh and scientology. (I REALLY, REALLY.. REALLY hate scientology)

Even in the peaceful parts of the Christians branches followers (often poor) feel obliged to donate to the church.. normally going to the elders.. People live a life of restrictions and self struggles because of the stupid things it teaches to be sin.. causing stress and anxiety.

And spreading the word of an ancient book as ultimate truth is harmful in itself (read previous post)

I've also noticed that a lot of christians consider atheists as anti-christs.. not all.. not even most.. but religion gives rise to this kind of thinking that some people are lesser than others.. Gays are disgusting, women are lesser, etc..

A lot of wars have been related (caused by, spurred on by, other) to religion.. a lot of ignorance is spread by religion.. and yeah.. everything else i previously stated.

There's one some bloke did about how the dragons mentioned in the Bible are actually dinosaurs who breathed fire cos their nostrils were so small the friction caused their breath to ignite.
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Fuck me that made me laugh :)
 
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raas_2012 said:
8(

How are Christian values, as preached by Jesus - though technically theres a chance someone may have altered the story in bible creation if it was not divinely inspired - fascist?

C'mon help me out here 1394. I don't want to be apart of a fascist religion...
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Heaven is quite literally a Kingdom, ruled by the supreme leader GOD, the father. They deny me access, it's hard getting a visa for the kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Oedipus#Reframing_the_Oedipal_complex

"...they want to show that the oedipal model of the family is a kind of organization that must colonize its members, repress their desires, and give them complexes if it is to function as an organizing principle of society."

God works this way, our supreme father.

@Shambles, I was having apocalyptic visions at the time so demolish seems a little dramatic now. I meant they seemed to be fucking with you, that is all.
 
rickolasnice said:
^ lol that guy dubbed over the top is cracking me up..
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He's funny as fuck. Well worth a trawl through his stuff. Is mostly similar stuff - taking genuine Creationist vids and both ripping the piss mercilessly whilst also providing actual information on why they're wrong. Aside from cos they're just plain stoopid. Some of the Creationist clips are so insane it truly beggars belief that even they can actually believe what they're saying. Comedy gold all the way =D

Think he does some other Bad Science stuffs (climate change denial and assorted pseudoscience quackery) but it's really the Creationist ones that provide the best laughs.
 
^It's truly mind boggling how these people can make videos about this kind of thing and not do ANY research..

Like the vid i posted earlier of Ray Comfort talking about how the banana is evidence of creationism because it fits our hand so well, etc..

Aside from obviously bringing up the pineapple and coconut..

10 seconds on google: Natural banana

wild_banana.jpg


Gonna have a look at some more of his vids ;)
 
fairnymph said:
I'll bite. :D

I find statements like this as obnoxious as ones which claim religion is necessary for everyone. You do realise Christianity is just one form of religion, and even within C., there are many peaceful folks who don't go about hating on others. There are bad apples everywhere.

I think religion is a tool, but those who abuse it or do harm in its name are to blame, not religion as a grand whole itself. I have personally found religion useful, a tool for good in my life, so I do take offense at being lumped in with fundamentalist crazies.
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YES. Finally someone comes out with some impartial common sense. It's taken 642 posts but it's there.

Too many people are set in their ways of hating on religions, and judge the entire religions on the minority of abusers. So much drivel on this thread that Christians are fascists, biggots, corrupt and the rest... and miss the entire concept that religion can be there just to nurture the good side of human spirit.
 
rickolasnice said:
Notice I said: In my opinion :p I didn't state it as absolute truth..

I agree.. they can be helpful tools.. Unfortunately we live in a world where they always have, are and always will be tools often use for harm. But sorry.. You're right.. I'm MAINLY talking about Christianity, Judaism, Islam and possibly sikhism (although, to be fair, i don't really know much about the latter).. Oh and scientology. (I REALLY, REALLY.. REALLY hate scientology)

Even in the peaceful parts of the Christians branches followers (often poor) feel obliged to donate to the church.. normally going to the elders.. People live a life of restrictions and self struggles because of the stupid things it teaches to be sin.. causing stress and anxiety.

And spreading the word of an ancient book as ultimate truth is harmful in itself (read previous post)

I've also noticed that a lot of christians consider atheists as anti-christs.. not all.. not even most.. but religion gives rise to this kind of thinking that some people are lesser than others.. Gays are disgusting, women are lesser, etc..

A lot of wars have been related (caused by, spurred on by, other) to religion.. a lot of ignorance is spread by religion.. and yeah.. everything else i previously stated.


Fuck me that made me laugh :)
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I did note you said IMO. But, I'm hoping to maybe have you shift your perspective a bit. It's really easy to think of monotheism as representing religion generally in Western cultures, and within the scope of relatively recent history. But humans have been around for a lot longer than a few thousand years and monotheism is a minority view if you consider the entire world's population.

I can't imagine how one would accurately determine all good and harm 'caused' by all religion over all time.

In regards to proselytising, I agree. I think it's okay to want to share your views, but touting them as absolute truth (or the idea of One True God/Path, whatever the Path, and atheism is one)...that's just arrogant. I think variety of religion is like variety in anything else - it makes life interesting and allows individuals to pursue what suits them/what they enjoy. I am inherently opposed to any attempt at homogenising.

I would be careful about lumping Judaism with most other monotheisms, as it really does differ fundamentally. Jews don't proselytise.
 
^No.. they don't.. but they do cut mutilate children in the name of their religion.. And their book of worship is full of evil.. and they, too are guilty of indoctrinating children..

Monotheism is the most popular type.. it's not monotheism I have a problem with, really.. People can believe what they want.. people can share their views with whoever they want.. but people shouldn't project their beliefs as the truth when there is no evidence to support it.. Children shouldn't be taught these things either.. Children should be able to choose what they believe in. Fair enough if parents spoke of their faith as an "I believe this" kinda way but to teach it as "It IS this" is plain wrong. It's indoctrination. It's such a complex book that children can be scared, confused and angry at THEMSELVES because of what it teaches.

I disagree with people shouldn't tout their ideas as truth, somewhat. If there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support your idea, then it's fair to call it truth.. But like I said.. when it comes to my opinion on religion being bad there is no way I could call that truth.. so I don't. 1 + 1 will always = 2, though ;)

To be honest, ok, not all religions are bad. But overall.. i think they are.. Like I said.. keep it to yourself or make it be known it is simply your opinion. People devote their lives to God, Jehovah, Allah, etc etc.. Religion gets in the way of proper education (creationism being taught in school.. i mean.. COME ON!)..

The bible teaches that being homosexual is wrong.

The Quran teaches that women are lesser than men (as does the bible)

And so on.. These kind of books are dangerous when people are told they are the absolute, undeniable truth as told by an all powerful God..

Again.. It's only these most popular religions I have issues with (Buddhism, no, not really.. Hinduism, no.. but to be honest I know nothing about it)..
 
Not all Jews circumcise; there is a movement to stop mutilating that is slowly gaining ground. But you're spot on that circumcision is Judaism's biggest flaw. It's actually very much against Jewish beliefs and theologically and historically, it makes no sense at all. Really tragic. In the US, there's an abundance of 'ethnic/cultural Jews', who don't keep kosher, or attend ceremonies/services, or follow most of the most basic principle of Judaism. The one rule they actually follow is circumcision, and less frequently but still more often than not, they do marry Jewish. The way I see it, they attempt to absolve their religious neglect, to compensate for it by circumcising their sons. Which is not only lazy but abusive. I've tried to talk so many Jewish friends out of doing it...it breaks my heart.

The OT/Torah is only a small portion of all Jewish religious texts, and is considered in historical context. It's a holy text but viewed in a very different light than, say, the Bible in Christianity. I've yet to encounter a rabbi who condones the violence and bigotry that occurs in parts. And it's not the word of God; it's (his)stories told by flawed humans that have been altered over time, and which are continually discussed and debated. That attitude is a big part of what attracted me.

I completely agree regarding indoctrination of children; ironically, my mother attempted to indoctrinate me in Atheism. She actually forbade me from going to Sunday School/CCD, and constantly belittled my interest in religion. She still insults me regarding my beliefs to this day. Fortunately I had a really cool dad fascinated by anything mystical, and he fostered my interests and encouraged me to explore as many religions as possible (not Scientology, though!). I'd like to raise my kids, when I have them, in a loosely Jewish but explore a bit of everything manner. And only if they want to.

Considering how many people find religion rewarding, I think atheist parents indoctrinating their children are just as bad as dogmatic believers who brainwash their children. Regardless of religion at all, I think many parents wrongly force their beliefs on their children.
 
Richolasnice you’re preaching more fire and brimstone than a deep south American Fundy.. Struth!


Love me more than your family or burn in hell (this is just one of many parts of the bible relating to this) Jesus never said this. Show me the verse please.

33 “But awhoever 1denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
34 “aDo not think that I came to 1bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 “For I came to aset a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and aa man’s enemies will be the members of his household.
37 “aHe who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 “And ahe who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

God is love. He has given us the option to put our trust in Him or the world (which is ever changing and passing away) The sword he gives us is spiritual.( Ephesians 6.17) In fact it is the Holy Spirit. As we move forward in our spiritual life we start to see the world with the perspective of God and recognize the strongholds of Satan in ourselves and others. Fortunately, I see strongholds demolished in myself through prayer, faith, obedience and submission ... this is wielding the sword. I can’t demolish strongholds in members of my family if its not Gods will and they have their own will and perspectives which are sometimes not compatible with mine or Gods. So arguments and misunderstandings ensue which at their worst cause rejection and separation.
In some cultures the reaction to conversion is more extreme leading to death or the threat of death. In this one its mainly ignorance and prejudice that Christians deal with.

With regard to denying Jesus before men.. If we ‘overcome by the blood of Christ and the words of our testimony’ * keeping schtum might make you more popular but it clearly wont bring victory. I’ve not been called to preach on street corners. I’ll speak to people about God if He moves me to. Mainly just when people ask about my beliefs.

It really can be a battle! Hes not just gentle Jesus meek and mild Hes a lion! So is satan who prowls around seeing whom he can devour 1 Peter 5.8 But Victory belongs to the Lord’ Proverbs 21.31

39 “aHe who has found his 1life will lose it, and he who has lost his 1life for My sake will find it.

Complete distortion there richolasnice. The verse actually says:

He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12.25.



Homosexuals (and more) will burn in hell: (If you've ever desired to possess something (particularly someone elses) you are going to hell. If we did not desire to possess something, we would not have anything. We are all going to hell).

More fire and brimstone that hasn’t come from God. We are not all going to Hell!!

1Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God Wheres the hell bit?

The rich will burn in hell:

Matthew 23Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

See my previous response.

Non virgins are damaged goods: Like Mary Magdalene?

OK.. re-reading my E-mails from the Jehovahs witness he hasn't actually left his source for these claims

I’m not going to comment on anything the JWs have said to you. They use a completely different version of the Bible and radically different ideas about God and the world.

Phew!
 
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I hate typing on this tablet & it really hates text forms. Grr.

Anyway...you were saying you mostly take umbrage with the most popular religions. That was kind of my point in talking earlier about how recent and somewhat isolated monotheism is on a global, all time scale. I'm fairly sure Buddhists & Hindis & Animists, to name just a few, outnumber Christians & Muslims (and Jews are insignificant in relation). And those truly most popular religions have been around a lot longer.

Totally against religion in schools, it's one part of the US constitution I fully agree with. Keep that shit separate. Though the Germans have a good system; in secondary education students can choose between Catholic Theology (most Germans are Catholics, though many casually so) or Ethics.
 
raas_2012 said:
YES. Finally someone comes out with some impartial common sense. It's taken 642 posts but it's there.

Too many people are set in their ways of hating on religions, and judge the entire religions on the minority of abusers. So much drivel on this thread that Christians are fascists, biggots, corrupt and the rest... and miss the entire concept that religion can be there just to nurture the good side of human spirit.
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Yeah I agree whole heartedly there!
 
fairnymph said:
Totally against religion in schools, it's one part of the US constitution I fully agree with. Keep that shit separate. Though the Germans have a good system; in secondary education students can choose between Catholic Theology (most Germans are Catholics, though many casually so) or Ethics.
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I agree. Although I think the US still has a long ways to go before getting to the right state/church seperation...I find it pretty insane how politicised religion is in that country tbh. Just the fact that the President speaks of 'one nation under God' etc...I really don't like that.
I really like how they do it in France - for instance at school we aren't allowed to wear any outward sign of religion. So if for instance you're wearing a chain with the cross on it, you've got to keep it under your shirt. You're allowed to wear it, but you can't show it.
That sounds like a good system in Germany as well - would be interesting to be able to study religion in school. From an objective point of view, of course.
(I'm sorry if none of that made sense btw, not in the most sober state right now :|)

Bist du also Deutsch? Ich habe nicht viele deutsche Leute hier gesehen, und deshalb vergesse ich wie zu sprechen!
 
Pagey said:
I agree. Although I think the US still has a long ways to go before getting to the right state/church seperation...I find it pretty insane how politicised religion is in that country tbh. Just the fact that the President speaks of 'one nation under God' etc...I really don't like that.
I really like how they do it in France - for instance at school we aren't allowed to wear any outward sign of religion. So if for instance you're wearing a chain with the cross on it, you've got to keep it under your shirt. You're allowed to wear it, but you can't show it.
That sounds like a good system in Germany as well - would be interesting to be able to study religion in school. From an objective point of view, of course.
(I'm sorry if none of that made sense btw, not in the most sober state right now :|)

Bist du also Deutsch? Ich habe nicht viele deutsche Leute hier gesehen, und deshalb vergesse ich wie zu sprechen!
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Oh yeah, they have totally failed to keep Church & State separate, to a laughable degree. I also find 'how politicised religion is' insane & frankly disturbing. Religion is perhaps the biggest political issue, in terms of how people vote & how many politicians present themselves. That in itself is a violation of separation, and it's also a huge distraction from the issues that really matter. Disgusting. I have zero faith in American politics and that's one of many, many reasons I'm thrilled to be in Germany now.

I'm familiar with the French system but I think wearing visible religious symbols in school is fine. I actually think it's good; an expression of individuality. Freedom of expression and all that. Forbidding it is fascist IMO.

I took a (required but highly anticipated) ethics course in prepatory school (mine was on par with many universities, very vigorous academically). I loved it. At university I studied English Lit and I got to explore theology and religion in many courses. I adored Paradise Lost especially, and a course on medieval lit with a focus on female writers, gender issues, and women who walled themselves in tiny rooms permanently, to pursue spiritual enlightenment. Fascinating stuff.

Mein Vater ist Deutscher (nicht der mystisch Vater; lange Geschichte aber ich habe zwei Vatern). Aber mein Deutscher Vater ist mein Blut Vater, und darum bin ich halb Deutsch. Lese mein Profile, ich habe ein bisschen dar erzahlt. Du hast Recht; es gibt wirklich fast keinen Deutscher hier. Schade! Wie hast du so gut Deutsch gelernt?

You're perfectly coherent, btw. :) I may not be, on a cocktail of new meds. Very drowsy and out of it but I still can't sleep. Fail.
 
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