EADD Theology Megathread

[NightsEpiphany]

Oh yeah, they have totally failed to keep Church & State separate, to a laughable degree. I also find 'how politicised religion is' insane & frankly disturbing. Religion is perhaps the biggest political issue, in terms of how people vote & how many politicians present themselves. That in itself is a violation of separation, and it's also a huge distraction from the issues that really matter. Disgusting. I have zero faith in American politics and that's one of many, many reasons I'm thrilled to be in Germany now.

I'm familiar with the French system but I think wearing visible religious symbols in school is fine. I actually think it's good; an expression of individuality. Freedom of expression and all that. Forbidding it is fascist IMO.

I took a (required but highly anticipated) ethics course in prepatory school (mine was on par with many universities, very vigorous academically). I loved it. At university I studied English Lit and I got to explore theology and religion in many courses. I adored Paradise Lost especially, and a course on medieval lit with a focus on female writers, gender issues, and women who walled themselves in tiny rooms permanently, to pursue spiritual enlightenment. Fascinating stuff.

Mein Vater ist Deutscher (nicht der mystisch Vater; lange Geschichte aber ich habe zwei Vatern). Aber mein Deutscher Vater ist mein Blut Vater, und darum bin ich halb Deutsch. Lese mein Profile, ich habe ein bisschen dar erzahlt. Du hast Recht; es gibt wirklich fast keinen Deutscher hier. Schade! Wie hast du so gut Deutsch gelernt?

You're perfectly coherent, btw. I may not be, on a cocktail of new meds. Very drowsy and out of it but I still can't sleep. Fail.

Wow, thats interesting to me. Were they hermits? Had God led them there? Or mentally ill. or... perhaps all three.

Have you got a few titles?

Pagey has the French school system outlawed all symbols? What about Nike? Greek Goddess.

 

[Pagey]

Agreed. I don't really have much to add to that actually, you summarised it perfectly.

Mmh fair enough, although as I said I do think it's a good thing. Arguably France has gone a bit too far to make religion an entirely private affair (with the burka and all that) but I do like how secular the schools are. It prevents a lot of bullying I'm sure.

Did you?! I'm also studying English Lit right now and one of my classes this term actually focuses on biblical contexts in literature so I've been doing some theology. I was just saying a few posts back how much I enjoy Paradise Lost. Funny coincidence.

Ich habe deinen Profile gelesen, das ist sehr kompliziert! Es ist aber sympathisch, dass du so viel gereisen hast. Ich habe Deutsch sieben Jahre in der Schule studiert, aber leider habe ich kein Deutsch in fast eine Jahre gesprochen, also vergesse ich viel

NE, what do you mean? We're allowed to wear brands and stuff if that's what you were suggesting...just no religious symbols. Well as I said you can wear them, they just can't be too obvious.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

NE, what do you mean? We're allowed to wear brands and stuff if that's what you were suggesting...just no religious symbols. Well as I said you can wear them, they just can't be too obvious.

I see more Nike ticks than crosses when I go out. Nike ( the 'Greek goddess') still has a following believe it or not. I googled it because my names Nicky. ( vain I know..but I had a friend called Nicole who told me about it so I was just easily led I reckon).. They held all the Nickys in high esteem lol..

Nike, like Coke and Mac donalds are very much symbols of the consumer society. You could even say Mammon.. Shopping is a religion for some people.. I'm just being pedantic sorry.

 

[Pagey]

Haha well yeah sure they're symbols of consumerism but the discrimination one might face because of their religion tends to be a bit more of a pressing concern than the discrimination one might face because of their shoes.

 

[rickolasnice]

my family if its not Gods will and they have their own will and perspectives which are sometimes not compatible with mine or Gods. So arguments and misunderstandings ensue which at their worst cause rejection and separation.

Thank you.. that's another reason why i believe religion to be bad.. The rest of your reply about Jesus telling people to love him more that their families doesn't really address the passages i gave..

More fire and brimstone that hasn’t come from God. We are not all going to Hell!!

Corinthians 25 says: Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord..

This implies everything up until this point was a command from God.. including the part about homosexuals, etc.. It says that people that people that have great desire to possess something (USUALLY someone elses) will not get into the Kingdom of heaven. If we did not desire things, we wouldn't have things.

Complete distortion there richolasnice. The verse actually says:

He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12.25.

Depends on what version you read.. my quote was copied and pasted from a Christian website.. what do you think I did? Edited it?

See my previous response.

What about it?

So what you are saying is Jehovahs witnesses are wrong.

How do you know you are right?

And it's not the word of God; it's (his)stories told by flawed humans that have been altered over time, and which are continually discussed and debated. That attitude is a big part of what attracted me.

So how can you tell which parts were God and which parts were not / flawed interpretations? Why, at no point, did God point out bits of the bible and say: I never said / did that. How could an all powerful God fuck up something as simple as a book. Jesus talks of the God in the OT as if it was him / his dad, implying that the OT was true.

 

[rickolasnice]

I'm fairly sure Buddhists & Hindis & Animists, to name just a few, outnumber Christians & Muslims

1) Christians - 2,116,909,552 (which includes 1,117,759,185 Roman Catholics, 372,586,395 Protestants, 221,746,920 Orthodox, and 81,865,869 Anglicans)
2) Muslims - 1,282,780,149
3) Hindus - 856,690,863
4) Buddhists - 381,610,979
5) Sikhs - 25,139,912
6) Jews - 14,826,102

Not even close

Apparently.. Muslims and Christians combined make up over 50% of the world population

NSFW:

Christians
31.5%

Muslims
23.2%

Unaffiliated
16.3%

Hindu
15%

Buddhist
7.1%

Folk
5.9%

Other
0.8%

Jewish
0.2%

 

[fairnymph]

Wow, thats interesting to me. Were they hermits? Had God led them there? Or mentally ill. or... perhaps all three.

Have you got a few titles?

Pagey has the French school system outlawed all symbols? What about Nike? Greek Goddess.

A variety of reasons led these women to isolate themselves. Your guesses are spot on. Some were escaping marriage, others possibly had mental disorders, and many simply wanted to devote their lives to meditation, contemplation, and religious study. Many of these anchoresses were from the upper classes and literate, which is why we're able to study their work. Quite coherent most of what's been preserved. I recall reading a series of love letters to God from one anchoress, really beautiful. Obviously there was a strong asceticism component, denying the earthly realm to focus on the spiritual one.

I wish I had some titles, but my memory fails me and all my old coursework is across the pond. General background: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorite

 

[fairnymph]

YES. Finally someone comes out with some impartial common sense. It's taken 642 posts but it's there.

Too many people are set in their ways of hating on religions, and judge the entire religions on the minority of abusers. So much drivel on this thread that Christians are fascists, biggots, corrupt and the rest... and miss the entire concept that religion can be there just to nurture the good side of human spirit.

Thank you Alas, I am not really impartial, though I like to think I'm fairly objective. I was agnostic until university, and nearly all of my friends and family are atheist or agnostic. I'm constantly defending religion to them...it's like bashing religion and believers has become a popular new sport among educated Westerners.

 

[fairnymph]

1) Christians - 2,116,909,552 (which includes 1,117,759,185 Roman Catholics, 372,586,395 Protestants, 221,746,920 Orthodox, and 81,865,869 Anglicans)
2) Muslims - 1,282,780,149
3) Hindus - 856,690,863
4) Buddhists - 381,610,979
5) Sikhs - 25,139,912
6) Jews - 14,826,102

Not even close

Apparently.. Muslims and Christians combined make up over 50% of the world population

NSFW:

Christians
31.5%

Muslims
23.2%

Unaffiliated
16.3%

Hindu
15%

Buddhist
7.1%

Folk
5.9%

Other
0.8%

Jewish
0.2%

Thanks for posting this, very interesting. Unfortunately, I don't have much faith in the source of those statistics, or in how they were collected. How do you accurately determine that kind of data? Those stats also don't make that much sense if you look at the distribution of the world's population. The Asian continent has over 4 billion people, most of whom are not Christian or Muslim. That's more than half the world's population right there. If you look at religion over all time, the picture really changes.

 

[fairnymph]

So how can you tell which parts were God and which parts were not / flawed interpretations? Why, at no point, did God point out bits of the bible and say: I never said / did that. How could an all powerful God fuck up something as simple as a book. Jesus talks of the God in the OT as if it was him / his dad, implying that the OT was true.

None of the OT is considered the literal word of God, according to Jewish belief. And obviously Jesus has nothing to with God either, for Jews. Judaism, with the exception of circumcision, is quite internally consistent. Every religious text must be questioned and taking anything at face value goes against Jewish tradition. What 'rules' Jews follow depend on the community, rabbis, religious scholars, and the individual, not just history and tradition. Of course, there are some extreme exceptions but they are a tiny minority.

 

[rickolasnice]

^As none of the New Testament was written by Jesus..

The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.39% (of which Roman Catholic 16.85%, Protestant 6.15%, Orthodox 3.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.74%, Hindu 13.8%, Buddhist 6.77%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.22%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, non-religious 9.66%, atheists 2.01% (2010 est.)

They are obviously estimates but they are not random guess work.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

^As none of the New Testament was written by Jesus..



They are obviously estimates but they are not random guess work.

It was written by people who knew Him and people in the church... and the early church would have been as strict about what was considered scripture or not as the Jews.

You might also say that since the people who wrote them were Spirit filled then God did have a hand in them.



Fairnymth **

That sounds like a bit of me :D... I'm really interested in the writing of early ascetics like the desertt Fathers. Antony of the desert in particular.

** I havn't got to grips with that multiple quoting thing on here. I'm new.

 

[Shambles]

No. It was not written by anybody that claimed to know him at all. The closest is Paul who claims to have had a vision of him after his death and further claims to have spoken to people who knew him. That's as close as it gets though. And it should be borne in mind that Paul also never "quotes" anything by Jesus at all - he simply pontificates about his interpretations of things he never gives proper attribution to. The actual gospels come much later and don't even claim to be written by people who knew the person directly. There is absolutely zero direct evidence of the existence of Jesus anywhere in the Bible or elsewhere.

You can also say that the OT was written by people "inspired by the Spirit" - and the Apocraphy too for that matter. Which parts you accept is a personal matter. You cannot accept all of it cos it's in direct conflict with itself frequently.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

No. It was not written by anybody that claimed to know him at all. The closest is Paul who claims to have had a vision of him after his death and further claims to have spoken to people who knew him. That's as close as it gets though. And it should be borne in mind that Paul also never "quotes" anything by Jesus at all - he simply pontificates about his interpretations of things he never gives proper attribution to. The actual gospels come much later and don't even claim to be written by people who knew the person directly. There is absolutely zero direct evidence of the existence of Jesus anywhere in the Bible or elsewhere.

You can also say that the OT was written by people "inspired by the Spirit" - and the Apocraphy too for that matter. Which parts you accept is a personal matter. You cannot accept all of it cos it's in direct conflict with itself frequently.

Theres the letters of Peter and the Gospel of John. Both were disciples of Jesus.

Actually, I was reading this text earlier... by John.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.John 1.1

'We have seen His glory refers to the transfiguration during the life of Jesus'.. He's talking in the first person.

He also identifies himself in John 21:24

'24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.'

I've always considered James to be a contemporary of Jesus.. Some even say brother but I havn't studied the dating or authorship of it. The same goes for Jude.

Whats the secular stance on them?

 

[1394]

Here's a complimentary enema with regards from Dr. Gonzo.

He feels bad for people full of shit.

 

[rickolasnice]

NE and raas.. have you read the texts that didn't make it into the bible?

 

[rickolasnice]

What does the H in Jesus H Christ mean? (Raas, Ne - I'm looking at you)

 

[fairnymph]

Holy?

 

[rickolasnice]

^That's what I assumed.. but I googled it and nobody seems to know.. Harod is the one I've read that makes most sense.

 

[Pagey]

^the Lord wouldn't approve I'm sure. Shame on you. Shame on you.