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Bupe Why is subutex making me tweaky?

slizzo

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
15
My Dr. prescribed it for vicodin dependence and I took a half last night without much problem but this morning I took another half and went into a panic attack. Then that subsided but I still feel tweaky like I'm speeding. I didn't really let myself withdrawal much from the vicodin before starting the subutex so maybe that's why. I read that subutex will precipitate withdrawal, how long will that last? Also how long should I wait before taking anymore in case that I am having some precipitated withdrawal?
 
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Precip WD, the worst will only last 90 minutes max and that can make anyone a little shaky afterward. Precip WD can be intense, tho your situation may not be Precip. When I took Subs I eventually developed what is called myoclonus (twitching muscles, the literature for opiate developed myoclonus is out there if you look for it). Drove me nuts, but glad it did cuz it expedited my way out of sub use and eventually opiates altogether. Other folks have told me that sub can make your limbs feel a little detached and thus create a shaky, tweeky kind of feeling. This can happen especially if you have been prone to other neuropathy or neuro related problems......even carpal tunnel would fall into this category. Unless you plan to be a hopeless user of opiates all of your life, I would try to use that sub in a rapid taper lasting no longer than 3 weeks. I do realize that some folks have to stay on it because then they go back to street life. Sub life is definitely better than street life, but if you are fixen to quit all together, the sub is a great tool when used rapidly.

BTW: If it was Precipitated WD, it would have happened last night when you took the first bit. So I am pretty sure its not that.
 
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Ok thanks. I guess maybe it's not precip because this has been going on longer than 90 mins but yeah it does feel like you say, twitchy, shaky limbs and even some feeling of limb detachment. It makes me feel really amped up and my mind races as well. I'm kinda hoping it will be something that goes away after some time on the subs, like a side effect deal.
 
Yes it could be a rather intense side effect. Keep in mind that on the opioid scale, subutex is many times stronger than vicodin. Some would say that sub is the most powerful opioid out there considering it has the power to tear away strong opiate molecules such as heroin or oxy and replace itself with those. That 'ripping' away of the vicodin/oxy/heroin is what causes precip WD, which I am sure we are now certain that is not what is happening. I don't know what your vicodin habit was, but in many cases fighting a vicodin/hydro habit with pure subutex is like hunting rabbits with a howitzer cannon. Be careful, the effect you may be feeling could simply be the experience of a very strong substance you are not used to. And trust me sub is strong. A person who has never taken opiates could easily overdose from small amounts of sub. How much does your doc have you on per day?

Also, you may not sleep for a day or two. Get busy if its bothering you.
 
Yes it could be a rather intense side effect. Keep in mind that on the opioid scale, subutex is many times stronger than vicodin. Some would say that sub is the most powerful opioid out there considering it has the power to tear away strong opiate molecules such as heroin or oxy and replace itself with those. That 'ripping' away of the vicodin/oxy/heroin is what causes precip WD, which I am sure we are now certain that is not what is happening. I don't know what your vicodin habit was, but in many cases fighting a vicodin/hydro habit with pure subutex is like hunting rabbits with a howitzer cannon. Be careful, the effect you may be feeling could simply be the experience of a very strong substance you are not used to. And trust me sub is strong. A person who has never taken opiates could easily overdose from small amounts of sub. How much does your doc have you on per day?

Also, you may not sleep for a day or two. Get busy if its bothering you.

Ok well when I first started taking vicodin a little over a year ago it did the same thing to me (give me a speeding feeling) only not as bad but as you said sub is strong so that must be the reason for the speeding. Anyhow I was taking about three 7.5/750 a day for a long time. My script for sub says take one tab up to three times a day. I've only taken a quarter tab and it's tweaking me out. Is this speedy feeling something that will go away?
 
I want to add that I took a quarter last night and didn't have too much a problem but this morning was crazy. I have anxiety disorder to begin with so the speedy feeling is not a good thing for me. I don't feel it right now but I feel really crappy and sick. (probably withdrawal). I don't know where to go from here though. I don't want to keep using sub if it makes me feel this bad. I suppose I could call my Dr. and tell him and maybe he'd give me a script for vics to "ween" off but I've tried that and can't control myself.
 
It likely will go away, when users change from their opiate of choice/use, there is usually a 2 to 4 day break in period with sub before they feel stable. It should level out. What I am saying is tho, your comparatively small habit should most likely be challenged with a week of just feeling rotten, good nutrition and plenty of fluids. Also, Not recommended to all, but an occasional stiff drink could settle some symptoms during the first week, it worked for me. You could be done in a week, then have some blah weeks to follow, but not unbearable, just a little uncomfortable. Getting into sub seems more dangerous than naught. I found my sub withdrawal more difficult than coming off oxymorphone (stronger than oxycodone). Like I said, it seems you are hunting small game with a cannon. try the sub for a few days since those can be the worse. I am not a doctor, but if I was I would say 2mg to 4mg max of the sub per day. Its you and docs choice tho. Hope it works out.

Edit: I have known folks in your situation get by on 1mg to 1.5mg per day of sub, then quit. They literally took crumbs off the subutex pills or 1/8 inch slices of suboxone strips....... less is more with sub....common knowledge of those who tried it.
 
It likely will go away, when users change from their opiate of choice/use, there is usually a 2 to 4 day break in period with sub before they feel stable. It should level out. What I am saying is tho, your comparatively small habit should most likely be challenged with a week of just feeling rotten, good nutrition and plenty of fluids. Also, Not recommended to all, but an occasional stiff drink could settle some symptoms during the first week, it worked for me. You could be done in a week, then have some blah weeks to follow, but not unbearable, just a little uncomfortable. Getting into sub seems more dangerous than naught. I found my sub withdrawal more difficult than coming off oxymorphone (stronger than oxycodone). Like I said, it seems you are hunting small game with a cannon. try the sub for a few days since those can be the worse. I am not a doctor, but if I was I would say 2mg to 4mg max of the sub per day. Its you and docs choice tho. Hope it works out.

Edit: I have known folks in your situation get by on 1mg to 1.5mg per day of sub, then quit. They literally took crumbs off the subutex pills or 1/8 inch slices of suboxone strips....... less is more with sub....common knowledge of those who tried it.

Yeah right now I'm taking crumbs of the sub too. It's all I can handle. My Dr. (he's my GP) told me that the sub is easier to come off than the vico. He specializes in addiction treatment too. Thanks for your advice.
 
Are you guys sure PWD can't last more than 90 minutes? I thought I have read people on here talking about it lasting longer than that. Anyone got personal experience?
 
Are you guys sure PWD can't last more than 90 minutes? I thought I have read people on here talking about it lasting longer than that. Anyone got personal experience?

I've never experienced it. It could last longer, from what I've heard. I wouldn't risk precipitated WD, so make sure you're well into acute withdrawals before going on Suboxone.
 
Are you guys sure PWD can't last more than 90 minutes? I thought I have read people on here talking about it lasting longer than that. Anyone got personal experience?

Yep. First hand experience here all the way, since I have been thru it several times, and have looked at the literature, plus have friends who have been thru it. Most of the time precipitated WD can only last for 60 to 90 minutes. Actually 90 minutes is on the long end. The reason behind this is simple science, without getting into all the receptor jargon, this is the time it takes for suboxone or subutex molecules to overtake the various dope that is still acting on your brain. That process is like a war going on in your system. The first time it happened to me I was a little shocked by how hard it hit. I might have been 16 hours out from my last dose of dope. I was not feeling very good so I thought it would be ok to take the sub. Wrong. I realized that it was just that I was getting fatigue from not having dope for 16 hours. I was not in full WD, It is best to be in full WD before taking sub. The reason some folks might say it lasts longer than 90 minutes is because it is a very draining experience. You are not going to feel like a spring chicken after a precip WD. The type of dope you are using can also impact this. Oxy or Heroin after 24 hours and you should be fine. But its still best to wait into the 36 hour realm before trying sub and when you do try your sub, start with small amounts. Oxymorphone, which is very strong takes even longer to release itself from your system. My last precip WD was over a year ago, I thought I had learned my lessons. I was at a relatives house and had been using heavy oxymorphone days before and the night before I woke up. I was out of my supply but had suboxone and needed to present myself well that morning. It was twenty hours after my last dose of oxymorph, I took a little sub and went into the worst precip WD of my life. I'm good at keeping myself together but I spent about an hour in the bathroom sweating profusely and could not control my bowels. My anxiety and mood were in complete panic. The build up of heavy use prior tells the tale. Bottom line, wait 48 hours or until you are very very dope sick. If you have to try sub before that, then start priming with crumbs and see how you respond to it. Sub is an extremely powerful opioid. If you are taking sub, you are not clean. As a matter of fact you may even now be dirtier than you were before. Long term sub is only for those who will go back to the street if they are not on it. As I said before, sub life is better than street life. But if you really want to kick, you must also kick sub .....

BTW...... one precip WD to possibly avoid at all cost is if you are using methadone, then try to go to sub. The half life of methadone is much longer than heroin or any of the oxys. If that ever has to happen, wait at least 3 days. As I said before, its a war when suboxone or subutex tries to overtake dope molecules actively working on your brain. I can't even imagine the Armageddon between methadone and sub. Sub will eventually win out, but then you might have your precip WD that lasts longer than the standard 60 to 90 minutes. I shutter to think about it.
 
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Going from vicodin to sub I highly doubt you'd get precipitated wd's unless you were taking ungodly high amounts of hydrocodone. Subs are a thebaine derived synthetic which is known to cause some stimulation.
 
Going from vicodin to sub I highly doubt you'd get precipitated wd's unless you were taking ungodly high amounts of hydrocodone. Subs are a thebaine derived synthetic which is known to cause some stimulation.

You are right about the derived synthetic causing stimulation. Tho, it is absolutely possible to have subutex or suboxone based precip WD even from vicodin. Large amount or small amount, the sub has to attach itself, and in order for that to happen it must overtake the original opiate....thus....you get precip WD. What I can't understand is fighting a small vicodin habit with sub........
 
Subs are not easier to come off than hydrocodone. And that is almost a fact. What your doctor might mean is that subs aren't really recreational, so if u do come off it you wont crave the high as much as of you were to use vicoden and then stop. Idk... You may want to look around BL at people's stories with subs, it seems like they have pretty bad, drawn out withdrawals.
 
did I read this right? you were taking 3x 7.5mg hydrocodone and you went on bupe??? and you're supposed to take 3x full subs a day?? that's like dropping a nuke to kill an ant...

back on topic: bupe made me speed when my dosage got lower. I was at 1mg/day and every now and again I'd sniff an 8mg and be going for like 10 hours straight and then just be wide awake for another 10 hours.
 
Subs are not easier to come off than hydrocodone. And that is almost a fact. What your doctor might mean is that subs aren't really recreational, so if u do come off it you wont crave the high as much as of you were to use vicoden and then stop. Idk... You may want to look around BL at people's stories with subs, it seems like they have pretty bad, drawn out withdrawals.

Yep, exactly. The first couple days are easier than hydro or oxy but you pay later in terms of drawn out WD. It can grind on you and make you nearly insane.
 
^I'm not in the mood to go into a big long drawn out "thing" about precipitated withdrawal.....

but, I first went on sub in 2005 I think it was....and I had a script of it pretty much up until 2011...got kicked of the sub by a few doctors for dirty urines etc...

So, I have a lot of firsthand experience with it as well.....The first year I was prescribed it I could jump back and forth from heroin to sub with no problem....I didn't even have to wait to be in withdrawal, I could shoot heroin for a week and then take sub twelve hours after my last shot and go right back on the sub with no WDs whatsoever.....

After a few years of doing this, it got to be that when I took the subs, I'd be half dope sick for at least a day when I started on the subs...Sweating, chills. achey, anxious, runny nose, sleeping very little....

Then it would correct itself eventually and I'd be fine taking the subs.....but over time it just took longer and longer until it got to the point where, no matter how long I waited to take the sub or how little or how great of an amount I took, it took me 2-3 days to not be half-dopesick....I call it "half-dopesick" because it wasn't as bad as tossing and turning in sweat soaked agony like full-blown heroin withdrawal, but it wasn't exactly mild either!!

For this reason, I started to dread having to take the suboxone! I don't know if you'd really call this PWD or what, but I thought I'd note it here. as this has been the experience of a lot people....

Of course, I don't think the OP would really experience any PWD at all given what theyre using, but I'd think twice about using Sub....The withdrawal from sub itself is long, drawn out and shitty....

I personally think a fast methadone taper works pretty well....I'm not talkinh "maintenance", I'm talkin cutting down over a week starting at 30-40 mgs and cutting back to zero by the 7th day....this combined with "comfort meds" that they use in classic detox settings(clonidine, hydroxyzine, ibuprofen) and I'm doing pretty good by day 9, and thats some pretty high up IV heroin habits....I think youd experience only minor WD if any using that detox OP...

Thats pretty much the one they give you at the detoxes where I'm from....Suboxone can be right for certain people in the right situation, but I'm not sure yours is one them.....
 
Subs are not easier to come off than hydrocodone. And that is almost a fact. What your doctor might mean is that subs aren't really recreational, so if u do come off it you wont crave the high as much as of you were to use vicoden and then stop. Idk... You may want to look around BL at people's stories with subs, it seems like they have pretty bad, drawn out withdrawals.

For someone with a small habit and low to moderate tolerance, buprenorphine is very recreational. I'm personally on around 1mg right now and it's a great opiate high just like hydrocodone or oxycodone. This is with a suboxone film taken plugged.

To the OP, I disagree with what your doctor did. It would have been far easier to taper down off of the hydrocodone. You were only taking 22.5mg of hydrocodone a day, which is a pretty low amount for someone with a decent opiate tolerance. If you could really still get high of off 22.5mg of hydrocodone, switching to buprenorphine to taper down is overkill and a poor idea considering your tolerance. Taking subutex or suboxone to get off of opiates is for someone with a big opiate tolerance and problem, more along the lines of someone doing 80mg of oxycodone a day or similar.
 
Wow sub sounds like some crazy stuff. Since I made this thread I had gotten a few more vics. I was trying to get by and see if my Dr. would switch me back to a vic taper (he won't). I ran out of the vics and gave the sub another try this time after waiting 16 hrs since my last vic dose. It did make me feel better but kept me awake most of the night. Then yesterday and today I've been having problems with it. I'm only taking crumbs of the stuff and getting really spaced out, vertigo, nausea. If I try to stand and move around my muscles feel weak and shaky like they won't support me. Yesterday my Dr. gave me instructions for tapering off the sub (which I don't think a taper is necessary with the small amount I've had) and gave me clonindine for anxiety. The only think I do like about the sub is it takes away my craving for vicodin but I'm tired of feeling spaced out and sick while I'm on it. This whole thing is just getting really annoying and I ready to be done with it. I will miss my vic though but hopefully that will go away.
 
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