Do alpha males exist? Is being good at picking up innate?

[psytaco]

A friend and I were having a conversation over drinks discussing whether or not a man's ability to pick up a woman (I guess the same line of thinking could be applied to a woman trying to pick up a man) is largely innate or the result of learning (ie. socialisation). I was of the opinion that for many men, they are born with an ability to pick up women and that learning to be better at it happens throughout life, but that certainly not all men are created equal when it comes to their ability to flirt and interact with women. He was of the opinion that being good with women was something that is entirely learnt - that anyone can learn to be good at picking up women. He is also pretty into the whole PUA thing.

What do you guys think? Is being good with women something you learn or a gift acquired through genetics?

I guess the conversation topic came up after discussing Alpha males in the animal kingdom (both of us come from science backgrounds so we get into these nerdy conversation topics). Many animal groups have a male that is physically bigger than the others, seems to have attained a high level of authority and respect within the group, and gets the most fertile women of the group. Do people think that there are such things as alpha males amongst humans?

i believe there are. Humans are not created equally in terms of physical strength, intelligence, health and attractiveness. There are also some men who seem to consistently get the type of women that are deemed most attractive by society and generally speaking, these men possess the traits I just mentioned. other men who may not be as big, as handsome and as smart tend to struggle a bit more to get the women they most desire. And then there are the men who at the bottom of the heap who may spend most of lives struggling with women and relationships. there are even a very small minority of men who may have had no sexual partners.

I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this.:D

 

[Pagey]

Well...I think there's a bit of both. But I think it''s mostly learnt. Honestly, to me the only thing that's gonna make a significant difference when it comes to picking people up and that's more 'innate', is physical attractiveness. But even then you can work on it a lot. I mean sure, some people are just naturally more attractive than others, but there are so many ways to improve your body and to make yourself look better with make-up, clothes, haircut, style blablabla that even that...
The only other thing is maybe if the person is ridiculously stupid or something.
But attractiveness aside, I think it basically boils down to confidence and charm, both of which can be worked on. Sure, some people have them naturally, but even someone who's got absolutely none at the start can acquire a ton after a while. You just have to work on it.
So alpha males maybe, I guess, but considering we are humans and thus capable of a bit more than lions and the like ( ), that doesn't mean other men can't eventually attain that same level.

 

[Tude]

I think some alpha males were born that way, and some learned it.

 

[Psyduck]

(cf. also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture)

I think the whole thing is based on false dichotomy anyway. As if both Beta and Alpha males are participating in the same game; and the Beta male loses this game. For Beta males it is often not that important to get into bed with as much women as possible. Different people have different interests and develop their capacities. I also think it's a myth that women-chasers are really that confident. Their self-esteem is often dependent on constant validation of others.

 

[Pagey]

^It's appearing confident that matters tbh. Some of them are, some of them aren't, but the 'successful' ones all seem it.

 

[pofacedhoe]

practice makes perfect so get out there and try

a lot of picking people up is about not caring if you fail

 

[MyFinalRest]

From the beginning of the scientific research about it, the media skewed the idea of what the Alpha Male was. In wolf packs, The Alpha Male was the head of a family, not to be seen as some animal drifts around fucking lots of she-wolves.

The parent wolves are the leaders of the pack - the alpha male and alpha female.

The alpha male and female are the oldest members of the pack and the ones with the most experience in hunting, defending territory, and other important activities.

http://www.wolfweb.com/facts-pack.html

So, when we talk about these rambling studs in the bars...we aren't talking about anything scientific.

It's mostly an idea about shallow people culture, and people that have lots of different sex partners are often pretty flakey and shallow. They could hardly be considered evolutionary winners in any way at all. It's just that plasitc ass Jersey Shore culture, and believe me, lots of women would never have anything to do with those "studs" on that show, just like you probably ain't in love with Snooki.

OP, don't get into this shit. You'll end up turning more women off. Generally, whether you're a man or a woman, if you are good looking, have a good physique, and don't smell bad, you will get more attention from the opposite and same sex. The personality variables are too far and wide to even begin to consider. Everybody grows up developing different tastes, and those tastes change often.

These damn girls will go on and on about "confidence," but they all know that one tiny drop of confidence in a guy that looks as good as George Clooney goes a lot further than all the confidence a guy that looks like Michael Moore has. When chicks talk about confidence, it's a heap of bullshit.

There's seven billion people on this planet, and most of us are a bunch of "Beta nobodies." It's easier for an average dumbfuck to get laid more often because they relate well to all those average dumbfucks lurking around in the bars.

 

[pofacedhoe]

from the beginning of the scientific research about it, the media skewed the idea of what the alpha male was. In wolf packs, the alpha male was the head of a family, not to be seen as some animal drifts around fucking lots of she-wolves.


http://www.wolfweb.com/facts-pack.html

so, when we talk about these rambling studs in the bars...we aren't talking about anything scientific.

It's mostly an idea about shallow people culture, and people that have lots of different sex partners are often pretty flakey and shallow. They could hardly be considered evolutionary winners in any way at all. It's just that plasitc ass jersey shore culture, and believe me, lots of women would never have anything to do with those "studs" on that show, just like you probably ain't in love with snooki.

Op, don't get into this shit. You'll end up turning more women off. Generally, whether you're a man or a woman, if you are good looking, have a good physique, and don't smell bad, you will get more attention from the opposite and same sex. The personality variables are too far and wide to even begin to consider. Everybody grows up developing different tastes, and those tastes change often.

These damn girls will go on and on about "confidence," but they all know that one tiny drop of confidence in a guy that looks as good as george clooney goes a lot further than all the confidence a guy that looks like michael moore has. When chicks talk about confidence, it's a heap of bullshit.

There's seven billion people on this planet, and most of us are a bunch of "beta nobodies." it's easier for an average dumbfuck to get laid more often because they relate well to all those average dumbfucks lurking around in the bars.

qftw

 

[Belisarius]

There are enough people popping babies out to continue the species, which is all that really matters.

 

[llama112]

I think some alpha males were born that way, and some learned it.

Agreed completely.

^It's appearing confident that matters tbh. Some of them are, some of them aren't, but the 'successful' ones all seem it.

Yeah, confidence can really help you be much better at picking up women. Learned confidence, gaining confidence, even faking confidence are all helpful. Practicing as well. For those who aren't naturally good at picking up women, practice will help.

I never really thought of calling them "alpha males" but it does make sense. Some people just exude confidence. I definitely think some people are just "lucky" and they are born with all that. Others have to work for it.

 

[Get2Think]

It's something I've learned over the years but I have always been a good talker and able to approach and talk to anyone. It's one of my God given abilities. But approaching women takes practice and I have also had a lot of failures at bars and stuff when approaching girls only to have them immeditately shut me down "telling me they were going to leave the bar when they weren't."

Before I use to approach girls high/drunk out of my mind and honestly it hurt more than helped. Now that I'm clean I have my wits about me and I'm much more able to gauge a females interest/mood/ and other subtle cues. There isn't a girl I won't approach. At university I always introduce myself to the prettiest girl in the class who I fancy because I just want to and know I can so therefore I do it. I've been able to get lots of numbers and made first impressions but not so much success after that, which I'm working on.

I think confidence is mostly it. And guys are just different. I wouldn't consider myself an Alpha male, well actually... hmmm I sort of am now in sobriety. I dunno if any of that I said helps, but I hope you'll find some interesting responses to your question in this thread.

 

[Pagey]

These damn girls will go on and on about "confidence," but they all know that one tiny drop of confidence in a guy that looks as good as George Clooney goes a lot further than all the confidence a guy that looks like Michael Moore has. When chicks talk about confidence, it's a heap of bullshit.

It really isn't a 'heap of bullshit'. Yeah, obviously if a Brad Pitt lookalike came up to me in a bar I probably wouldn't give a fuck whether or not he was confident, and if the ugliest guy ever did I wouldn't either, but when you take out the two extremes confidence goes a VERY long way. I've been attracted to guys who weren't particularly good-looking when I thought about it objectively, but just exuded such confidence and such a sense of self-worth (not to an obnoxious point, obviously) that I couldn't help myself from being drawn to them. And I've noticed that I've gotten more attention ever since I've learned to hide my utter lack of confidence, and I'm positive the two are related.

Also, why did you say that 'people that have lots of different sex partners are often pretty flakey and shallow'? That's not true at all, I've got lots of friends who've had a pretty ridiculous number of hook-ups and they're anything but shallow. There's no right or wrong when it comes to wanting to have lots of sex or not, someone who only has sex in relationships isn't in any way 'better' than someone who likes to get some regularly even when they're single, and vice versa.

 

[specialrelativity]

Which begs the question, "do omega males exist?" Omega being the opposite of alpha.

 

[Perpetual Indulgence]

All classifications exist in humans. I think I am an alpha female.

 

[RedRum OG]

I think it's mostly about confidence. Unless you define alpha as good looking, which most are. And that plays an enormous role whether women want to admit it or not.

Not all women are the same, but if you have looks and confidence, you're good to go 95% of the time.

 

[Pagey]

^And same for men no?

 

[Lysis]

A friend and I were having a conversation over drinks discussing whether or not a man's ability to pick up a woman (I guess the same line of thinking could be applied to a woman trying to pick up a man) is largely innate or the result of learning (ie. socialisation). I was of the opinion that for many men, they are born with an ability to pick up women and that learning to be better at it happens throughout life, but that certainly not all men are created equal when it comes to their ability to flirt and interact with women. He was of the opinion that being good with women was something that is entirely learnt - that anyone can learn to be good at picking up women. He is also pretty into the whole PUA thing.

What do you guys think? Is being good with women something you learn or a gift acquired through genetics?

I guess the conversation topic came up after discussing Alpha males in the animal kingdom (both of us come from science backgrounds so we get into these nerdy conversation topics). Many animal groups have a male that is physically bigger than the others, seems to have attained a high level of authority and respect within the group, and gets the most fertile women of the group. Do people think that there are such things as alpha males amongst humans?

i believe there are. Humans are not created equally in terms of physical strength, intelligence, health and attractiveness. There are also some men who seem to consistently get the type of women that are deemed most attractive by society and generally speaking, these men possess the traits I just mentioned. other men who may not be as big, as handsome and as smart tend to struggle a bit more to get the women they most desire. And then there are the men who at the bottom of the heap who may spend most of lives struggling with women and relationships. there are even a very small minority of men who may have had no sexual partners.

I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this.:D

It's a learned behavior, which is why older men are so much better at it. There are younger men who are good at it, because they just don't care about rejection. Older men are better at reading people, which is why they are better with women.

Most men are just swinging at the fences, and the law of averages say one girl will respond positively sooner or later. Whether or not they get a girl they really want is another story. We women have the upper hand in that we know right away if you have a chance. Whether or not we will act on it sooner or later is another story.

It's not easy telling a complete stranger that you think she is beautiful, but I guarantee you that you will stand out among the dozens of other guys who whimped out and went for the easy line.

 

[Pagey]

^That's a good point actually. Going up to a woman and telling her she's beautiful will, at least 99% of the time, be more successful than some cheesy and probably not that funny pick-up line.

 

[psytaco]

^That's a good point actually. Going up to a woman and telling her she's beautiful will, at least 99% of the time, be more successful than some cheesy and probably not that funny pick-up line.

Yep. This is actually one of my more successful ways to pick up girls. I normally drop it pretty early on in the conversation. Even if I don't manage to pick up that particular girl I get the impression that most women are flattered and appreciate the compliment.

 

[psytaco]

Which begs the question, "do omega males exist?" Omega being the opposite of alpha.

I think so. If you think about those guys who seem to have zero social skills (with both men and women), are unintelligent, excessively skinny or obese and spend their life as virgins. I would say they would be your archetypal 'omega' man. Most people at least have sex or a partner. They have the opportunity to put their genes into the gene pool. The omega on the otherhand does not.

It's a learned behavior, which is why older men are so much better at it. There are younger men who are good at it, because they just don't care about rejection. Older men are better at reading people, which is why they are better with women.

Most men are just swinging at the fences, and the law of averages say one girl will respond positively sooner or later. Whether or not they get a girl they really want is another story. We women have the upper hand in that we know right away if you have a chance. Whether or not we will act on it sooner or later is another story.

It's not easy telling a complete stranger that you think she is beautiful, but I guarantee you that you will stand out among the dozens of other guys who whimped out and went for the easy line.

LYSIS: That is a good point. I forgot about how people get alot better at picking up as they get older (well to an extent - I think once a person reaches the age where they begin to lose alot of their physical attractiveness it gets harder).

I definately do think that the ability to pick up and socialisation in general has alot to do with learning. However, I do believe that like intelligence there is a genetic component too. Like most things, I think it is an interplay between nature and nurture.