Astral Projection

[cire113]

So check this out; Last night i went to sleep at 3am just trying to go to sleep; No efforts at all trying to astral project:


Apparently thought my training and awareness from trying to do it; basically made it happened automatically it was the craziest shit ever! and I have clear memories of it because I projected then returned to my body after about 15-20 seconds...

Heres what happened:


As I lay down to go to sleep i became drowsy and start drifting away fast; My awareness was barely there; It seem that to be able to successfully project not only must the physical body be completely asleep; but the mind but be in a trance and no "thoughts" are occurring; Alot of times while trying to successfully project i am able to achieve the body relaxation but the mind is still there thinking "am i there yet"

So what happened next is for a brief couple of seconds my whole body felt like it was vibrating super intense; It was the first time i really could conciously remember feeling the vibrations;

Next, I suddenly had the feeling of falling; and basically i fell right through my bed and floor and the next thing i knew it for the next 5-10 seconds; I was outside my house going down the sidewalk; It was the craziest thing ever; The the weird thing is the perspective was totally different than normal everyday reality;

I could not hold my excitement and returned back to body; next thing I know instantly I am in my bed ..

 

[rangrz]

rangrz, what part of this...



...is not registering in your oh-so-intelligent brain?

The OP didn't ask for a scientific explanation, nor do they ask whether or not it was real or not. They asked people to share their experiences with astral projection. If you don't have any direct experiences to share, then stop shitting on this thread already. In this instance, no one gives a fuck about your scientific model of the universe, so piss off with your trolling.

My experiences with things that sound like the phenomena being described is that I have had them, but because of their striking similarity to experiences on certain classes of drugs, combined with their general disjunct from the rest of empirical reality, I concluded they are simply artifacts of my brain/mind, produced though mechanisms similar to those drugs. My reflections upon said types of experiences, combined with my knowledge of the sciences, lead me to conclude that they are exactly that, just aberrations due to the way my brain functions.

 

[MrGrunge]

^ Exactly. Even without drugs, the natural serotonergic activity in the human brain can produce all manner of closed-eye visualizations, most often that of a room, object or figure. People in this thread have been equating "astral projection" to lucid dreaming because that's exactly what it is. The CEVs can be incredibly detailed, especially in people who are naturally creative and imaginative, and the ability to achieve these CEVs can even be honed over time. In a sense, it's your brain consciously experiencing itself without interference from an ego - that's why these hallucinations can sometimes be insightful, predictive, or simply frightening.

All the talk of 'astral planes' and 'nth dimensions' is nonsense.

 

[ebola?]

...is not registering in your oh-so-intelligent brain?

The OP didn't ask for a scientific explanation, nor do they ask whether or not it was real or not. They asked people to share their experiences with astral projection. If you don't have any direct experiences to share, then stop shitting on this thread already. In this instance, no one gives a fuck about your scientific model of the universe, so piss off with your trolling.

I think there is actually a little room for critical examination of explanations of these experiences in this thread, just as long as it doesn't crowd out the discussion that the OP intended. Rangrz' quips at no point really threatened to do so until this back and forth began.

ebola

 

[-=SS=-]

People in this thread have been equating "astral projection" to lucid dreaming because that's exactly what it is.

All the talk of 'astral planes' and 'nth dimensions' is nonsense.

Totally disagree, and they are totally different experiences. As I stated a lot of people believe they're AP'ing when infact they're just lucid dreaming, but the two experiences are very different (see earlier post). Closed-eye visuals can be very beautiful, but they're not the same as astral projection. Not even close. There is a distinct feeling/experience during astral projection that sets it apart from other known experiences we can have. You just "know" it is something else; the realization is immediate, complete, and does not need contemplation in order to process it.

 

[MrGrunge]

^ Well then let me ask you this: do you think anyone can "astral project" or is a specific trait of a select few?

 

[-=SS=-]

^ Well then let me ask you this: do you think anyone can "astral project" or is a specific trait of a select few?

I think it is a natural function that occurs during sleep every night, so yes I do think anyone is capable of experiencing it and I believe everyone has.. most just tend to automatically block it from memory due to earlier childhood experiences and conditioning of parents/culture. I remember having it happen many times when I was a child and it scared the crap out of me; intensely bright light, colours, patterns, buzzing sensations, and a feeling that I could not relate to any other felt thus far in life.

I will reiterate that it is nothing like lucid dreaming. With LD'ing you are totally in control (depending on level of lucidity).. and the times I've been as aware as I am right now I was able to change anything in the experience, but there was always a boundary there, like I felt confined to myself/always within "me". With astral projection it feels like you're in an ocean or in deep space that extends forever, it feels totally different. In that respect lucid dreaming is always enjoyable and pleasant because it feels safe, astral projection often leaves me feeling confused and like I really have no fucking clue what is going on with reality.

 

[Foreigner]

Lucid dreaming and astral travel are completely different. Lucid dreaming means having full awareness and function within a dream construct, whereas astral travel is a conscious awareness of being outside of your body and able to move within time and space.

The two are connected though in that if you can realize you are in a dream, you can decide to leave your body at that point. The difference between a dream and the astral is that in the dream you are travelling within your own construct, but in the astral you leave that artifice and go into a more multi-layered version of the "real world".

My initial experiences with the astral involved getting up to use the bathroom but realizing I left my body behind, and sitting up in bed after hearing a noise but when I sat up I did so out of my sleeping body. Saying that astral projection is just a different version of a dream is an innocent claim. I've met friends in the astral and we've had complete conversations which we both recall upon waking and comparing notes. Cats can see you in your astral form, so if you have a friend with one, just pay them a visit and watch their cat flip out; then call your friend the next day to ask if their cat was acting up the previous night. There are different experiments you can do to prove to yourself that this is real, it's not just metaphysical mumbo jumbo. That's why I feel skeptics are hard to deal with, because their parameters for validity are all based on physical observations while conscious. If they could just take a leap of faith and try out a different way of thinking/perceiving, they could perhaps astral project themselves and do their own kinds of experiments in that state.

Anyone can astral travel, but the third chakra / emotional body is key to the experience. If you don't have control over your emotional centre then you will never see through the self-created illusion of the dream state and be able to leave. Most people are controlled by their dreams, not the other way around, so they never develop the awareness that they can leave. People who do it naturally or by accident are usually people who are not as emotionally burdened in their unconscious, they have done a lot of inner work, or they are just less attached to the world in general.

Btw... the astral level is not another "dimension". It is another plane of this dimension. Your etheric double (already inhabiting your body) simply departs the physical vessel and travels on its own while still connected to the body. It's relatively close to the physical plane but it's an altered state (meaning it feels different than being awake). You're still aware that you're you and there are familiar aspects to what you're seeing. It does have slightly different rules than the physical plane, like you can be in any place in the world instantaneously without any travel time in between; you can walk through physical objects; you can fly if you so choose. There is still time and space though. If it were another dimension, the situation would be completely unfamiliar. I would say astral travel is tame compared to my experiences with psychedelics.

 

[-=SS=-]

This (post by foreigner) is why the whole topic is so difficult to pin down.. everyone uses language to describe their experiences but often use terms to explain something when it may infact be something different. I'm not knocking you foreigner, just pointing out that there is confusion in relating experiences through language. What you're describing is not what I consider AP, although I know many would say I'm wrong. Maybe they're right, but then that leaves me with experiences I can't find a reference for. What I consider AP is more akin to elements of a psychedelic experience than wandering in Earth like environments.. again, specifically moments of a smoked NN-DMT trip. The colours and forms are very similar, although the smoked trip is no where near as crisp or clear as the sober experience.

Been browsing websites where others talk about their experiences, found one that is very close to what I've experienced, "A tunnel opened up directly in front of me; pulsating, alive. It looked like lightning or a kind of white energy interwoven around the outer edges of a black tunnel. In the center of this thing was a pinpoint of white light; which became extremely dominate within a fraction of a second".

 

[Foreigner]

^ That is not AP, sorry. I know you think it is, but it isn't. That doesn't mean you aren't having a meaningful experience, so I'm not invalidating you. In esoteric theologies and mystery schools, AP is well understood. They've got it down to a science. Just read some theosophy books and you can understand it better. The language I'm using comes from that, and my own way of describing things. I agree though that language can be a barrier since people want concrete explanations for something that is largely abstract. However, AP is not an "anything goes" experience like psychedelics are. The astral does not have unlimited manifestations as psychedelics do, especially when you are still new at it and are close to the physical. Most people start off walking around their homes and seeing everyday things because they don't yet understand the rules of that form. If you aren't seeing anything remotely familiar then you aren't astral projecting.

The astral realm has specific properties. It can incorporate aspects of the dream state if your consciousness is not prepared to interpret an out of body experience as-is, but it is not akin to a psychedelic trip. Although, I've read that if you are more connected to the causal level then you can travel beyond the earthly plane while in the astral, which might mean you would see other forms. I have never done that though so I can't comment.

 

[rangrz]

Do you think it is possible, that in fact, other people *have* had the same "feeling" or "experience" that you have, but the meaning and interpretation they got out of it was different? I.e. That me and Mrgrunge might have had the feeling or phenomena, but when we reflected on it, and thought about it, we determined it was just an aberration of my brain, and fully physical.

 

[Foreigner]

Do you think it is possible, that in fact, other people *have* had the same "feeling" or "experience" that you have, but the meaning and interpretation they got out of it was different? I.e. That me and Mrgrunge might have had the feeling or phenomena, but when we reflected on it, and thought about it, we determined it was just an aberration of my brain, and fully physical.

Of course! It's your reality so take what you want from it and make your own determination

I've just found for myself that through experimentation, AP is a real phenomenon. There are things that happen on psychedelics which I'm undecided about, but since AP has nothing to do with my psychedelic use and there are things too concrete for me to dismiss, I judge it to be AP.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Well, OBE's are a real phenomenon, but stating that AP is a real phenomenon is a bit of a reach. "Astral projection" refers to the metaphysical concept of actually traveling through spiritual dimensions, which needless to say are not proven. "Out-of-body experience" is just that - an inward, subjective experience.

I had one minor OBE on ~3rd plateau DXM. Not a very memorable event.

 

[rangrz]

^

That is essentially my take... it was a real phenomenon and experience. I did feel like that, but my conclusion is that it was just a result of the physical workings of my brain and that my subjective sensory sensation and perceptions during such an experience do not accurately reflect empirical/objective reality in a literal way.

They may reflect something about my emotional state, my mind in general and my memories and experiences in life however.

 

[Foreigner]

^ Well, OBE's are a real phenomenon, but stating that AP is a real phenomenon is a bit of a reach. "Astral projection" refers to the metaphysical concept of actually traveling through spiritual dimensions, which needless to say are not proven.

They're proven, just not scientifically. Then again neither are OBE's in mainstream science.

Does that matter?

 

[Belisarius]

Actually, now that I think about it, I can chime in a personal experience to the whole "dream vs. OBE" argument:

Several years ago, while taking a nap in a public area at my college, I dreamed that I was out of my body. This was a lucid dream in every sense of the word; I knew I was dreaming, knew that my eyes were closed, that I was just wasting time whilst exhausted. Yet, I could "see" myself lying down on the bench, and could "walk" around the upstairs area where everyone else was milling about, doing their own thing--no passing through walls or floating. Strangely enough, even though it was lucid, it was not truly *vivid*; it was certainly not the same crisp sensory experience I would have had actually walking around the student center. It was still amazing, though; I haven't had an experience like it since, nor was there anything before to compare to it.

 

[TheAppleCore]

They're proven, just not scientifically. Then again neither are OBE's in mainstream science.

Does that matter?

"Proven not scientifically", in my opinion, is an oxymoron. I consider something proven when it has been successfully subjected to the scientific method.

 

[MrGrunge]

In esoteric theologies and mystery schools, AP is well understood. They've got it down to a science.

They're proven, just not scientifically.

Uh huh...

 

[-=SS=-]

^ That is not AP, sorry. I know you think it is, but it isn't.

Actually, it is astral projection. What you're experiencing (and the masses of others) is either a mild OBE experience, a lucid dream, or more than likely both. Once you realize how good the mind is at constructing things and fooling YOU (you are not your mind) then making a clear distinction between an OBE and dream becomes difficult. It is difficult to tell the difference unless you get an obvious sign. This I know through personal experience.

You shouldn't take what you read in books as gospel. I know what the actual difference is because I've experienced a variety of different experiences and I'm able to compare them, and then look to others testimony and evaluate. I never said an AP is an "anything goes" psychedelic experience, it's not like that at all. But walking about your home etc is definitely not AP. With AP you are no where near anything resembling physical reality. With OBE's you don't get blinding bright light, complete ecstacy as you leave the physical behind (or complete terror), and visions of colours and shapes that make no sense at all as they pass your point of awareness. The tunnel experience has been had by many people, just google it.. a tunnel which seems to be pulsating or alive, you fly down it, and there is an incredibly bright light at the end.

There's a lot of books and newage fluff on the subject. But that's all it is, fluff. It is no substitute for your own investigation. You should look into hypnosis.. you'll get an appreciation of just how powerful the mind is at deluding the self and how convincing it can be. But again, the difference between an OBE and AP is massive. OBE's and lucid dreaming is incredibly easy to achieve.. I told my 16 year old brother about it and even he was able to do it after a few weeks of holding it in his intent. AP is something that happens to you, you don't get to choose when. In that sense an AP experience could be construed as a spiritual or mystical experience.

I've been trying to find artwork but I can not find anything that is convincing enough. Actually the only thing I've found that resembles it is the wormhole CGI animation from the film Stargate. AP is a little more geometrical and the colours are more crisp/saturated, but it's actually not a bad representation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hit__CaybfY

EDIT: The colour representation and forms in this is getting closer to it:

 

[Foreigner]

"Proven not scientifically", in my opinion, is an oxymoron. I consider something proven when it has been successfully subjected to the scientific method.

Sorry to hear that, but if that's your epistemology then I respect it.

Uh huh...

Haven't you ever heard the expression "got it down to a science" before? It doesn't mean they're actually doing rigorous lab testing, it means they have come up with an applicable model to facilitate and explain the experience.

Actually, it is astral projection. What you're experiencing (and the masses of others) is either a mild OBE experience, a lucid dream, or more than likely both. Once you realize how good the mind is at constructing things and fooling YOU (you are not your mind) then making a clear distinction between an OBE and dream becomes difficult. It is difficult to tell the difference unless you get an obvious sign. This I know through personal experience.

You're preaching to the choir. I was having OBEs before I ever sought a model to explain it: and that's all I'm describing, a model. I never said the books were gospel, far from it as I believe people should get as far away from the new age ways of thinking as possible. I just find that the theosophical model works for me.

I agree that the mind is powerful, but I completely disagree that an OBE is simply mind or a very vivid lucid dream. To project into a different location and witness discrete events which are later verifiable is not mind. How can I possibly know such details from a place that I'm not physically at, yet have witnessed as if I'm there? There is something else happening. Just because I can't prove it scientifically does not make me wrong. You and others act as if I have no proof that I'm really and truly projecting, that it's just a vivid dream, etc., yet you equally offer no proof to your counter assertions. If it's just mind then prove it. The fact is, you can't.

Here are the pitfalls of pseudoskepticism that repeat over and over in topics such as these:
1. Denying, when only doubt has been established.
2. Double standards in the application of criticism.
3. The tendency to discredit rather than investigate.
4. Presenting insufficient evidence or proof.
5. Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof.
6. Making unsubstantiated counter-claims.
7. Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence.
8. Suggesting that unconvincing evidence provides grounds for completely dismissing a claim.

Anyway, I'm not going to keep defending myself from empirical attacks. I've stated my understandings and they are not likely to change. I just thought I'd share where I'm coming from. Some people out there will take it and some will leave it.