Opioids What dosage to jump off kratom

[Benjo Diazepine]

UGH! I ended up taking some kratom yesterday and today. I hope that doesn't fuck this up for me. I'm thinking I was over the hump and this should be a minor setback... I hope.
I really gotta lay of these gabaergics too. Seems I've been trying to quit for a couple months and using gabapentin and benzos like I wouldn't under normal circumstances.

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

We will see. I am definitely sure I want to quit even if that means suffering but reducing the misery should always be an option.
Not this "You have to WD bad to let the opis alone."-Attitude.

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I've always thought that was a bullshit attitude to have. It doesn't make you more of a man to suffer profoundly, although some measure of suffering is to be expected. I definitely think there's a science to withdrawal and one should aim to make it as painless as possible. I've come off methadone twice and both times were very smooth.
Now if you get thrown in jail, well... ya probably better adopt a different attitude!

 

[DickTate]

Now if you get thrown in jail, well... ya probably better adopt a different attitude!

Well then it is good that this will never happen to me
How are you doing today? Any symptoms after the Kratom?

This is my first day without Tilidine and I feel good having switched to 100mg AH-7921. If anything comes over the course of the day I will take one 300mg cap of Gabapentin. Tomorrow: 50mg AH and the day after that Kratom (if it arrives...). Only ordered enough for 4 doses so I want to finish this weekend.

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

Those are some weird euro drug names. I've never even heard of them before you posted. AH-7921 sounds like it was made by Sony. :D
I'm not noticing any w/d symptoms. I've had a horrible headache that's probably related to dental issues.. makes me what to take a couple scoops of kratom for sure! HAHA
Haven't had gabapentin for a while now. Think I'm gonna toss these benzos in the garbage... shit really scares me- how much I've been doing. Wish I had some experience with those opioids you mention so I could be a better help...

 

[DickTate]

AH-7921 is a RC-opioid with less recreational effects than others and Tilidine is a very short acting synthetic opioid also known under the brand name "Valoron".
It is pretty common in Germany and has a high abuse potential because of its very quick action (the liquid preparations are now under the BTM-Law since this year because of this). I always had the retard Tabs which can easily be crushed so they work after ~15 minutes and have a very euphoric, activating rush.

In my experience the strongest rush of all oral consumed opioids I had so far.

However, I took my last dose of the AH (50mg) and will hopefully get my Kratom tomorrow. If not I will substitute with Tetrazepam.
And yeah, be aware not to get a Benzo addiction instead! Good luck on your further path

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

What would 50mgs of AH be equivalent to?
Did you get your kratom? So you've never actually had kratom before then? I never tried it before about a month ago. It's very interesting and impressive. I find the high to be very 'full bodied' compared to opioids. In some ways it's more enjoyable.

 

[EyeHatePod]

How slowly is 'slowly? Wouldn't I essentially be addicted to kratom right now due to cross tolerance? I mean, for all intents and purposes, it is just another opioid.



Funny you mention dosing at night. I woke up in the middle of the night and felt the need to toss and wash a couple grams.
I'm really beginning to think that kratom is NOT a good option to taper, with its unstandarized dose and short half life. The one good thing about it seemed to be the minimal w/d symptoms, but that seems to be a myth.

BTW, what is 'burn'? I see this term mentioned now and then. I'm sure it's not referring to smoking the shit. I found a great way to toss/wash using almond milk and whey protein.. can barely taste the kratom. What a weird drug habit to have! HAHAHA

I agree. I fell victim to the empty promises of kratom being a harmless plant. Though, I have to admit, it's a fuck of a lot healthier for me than what I was doing to my liver with all that APAP in hydro's.

I didn't make it out of the woods, but I found a nice spot where some sunlight breaks through. That was such a lame metaphor for failing at staying clean.

 

[DickTate]

What would 50mgs of AH be equivalent to?
Did you get your kratom? So you've never actually had kratom before then? I never tried it before about a month ago. It's very interesting and impressive. I find the high to be very 'full bodied' compared to opioids. In some ways it's more enjoyable.

Hey Benjo,

AH-7921 is said to have about 80% the potency of Morphine but due to the low oral bioavailability it seems much weaker. Hard to say.
And I had extensive experiences with Kratom before. It actually arrived today so I took 150mg Tetrazepam yesterday and had no wd-symptoms whatsoever.
But this morning I was pretty nervous and awaiting the delivery. Now I ingested 5g of Maeng Da Kratom and feel fine.

The plan is to empty the 25g bag over the next 5 days and then jump off.

Good luck with your further way

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

Oh yeah, I think you did mention that already. My apologies for gaping out.
Good luck! Maeng Da I think is my favorite of the 4 varieties that I have tried.
Curious- are you planing on tapering the dosage at all or sticking at 5 grams a day? Do you think tapering it would help in this circumstance?

I agree. I fell victim to the empty promises of kratom being a harmless plant. Though, I have to admit, it's a fuck of a lot healthier for me than what I was doing to my liver with all that APAP in hydro's.

I didn't make it out of the woods, but I found a nice spot where some sunlight breaks through. That was such a lame metaphor for failing at staying clean.

Yeah, that sucked.
There's an awful lot of junkies out there lying to themselves about how non-addictive kratom is, it seems to me. Do you realize that kratom too has been implicated in liver damage? Still probably safer than APAP though...

 

[DickTate]

Oh yeah, I think you did mention that already. My apologies for gaping out.
Curious- are you planing on tapering the dosage at all or sticking at 5 grams a day? Do you think tapering it would help in this circumstance?

No problem.

I think that tapering would help a little but not very much so I think I will stick to 5 a day (so I can have 5 opioid days again -.-). Before that I tried with Buprenorphine which just fucked my tolerance and after that I went on.

My main problem is learning to live relatively sober days again. No Opis and no benzos. Maybe smoke some weed or drink a beer in the evening. That would be acceptable.
Sadly I was at this point little over a year ago and it felt so good. The stupid idea to use again led to nearly a full year of on and off use, pretty frightening...

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

It's going to be interesting to see how that works for you. In my limited experience I would say a taper isn't needed after only 5 days on it too, but I'm still not positive about that. Like I stated earlier, I just couldn't get a handle on it myself and ended up switching back to hydromorph just so I could tell where I was at.

I went a whole year and a half without any opioids after coming off methadone. It's a hard void to fill. I think too, in retrospect, that I was experiencing PAWS that whole time and that helped drive me back to ops. If I just could have made it two or three years, I think the temptation would have been much less. I can definitely feel I'm running out of time on this; there's only so many times on and off before one is in a semi-permanent state of PAWS and brain functions will truly never be the same.

I've never tried bupe before, but methadone sure fucked my tolerance, even after that year and a half clean I could do three times what I was doing before methadone and still not catch a nod. I wish I knew then what I know now regarding options like loperamide and kratom.. I never would have went on methadone at all. Unless you're an IV user, it seems a bit excessive. Still, it saved my ass at the time from a harsh w/d.
I look forward to your updates...

 

[DickTate]

Me again.

Yesterday I ended up taking 2x5g over the course of the day...today only 5g, tomorrow 5 and it is gone. Maybe a few benzos for the acute phase (got 10 Etiz at hand next week) and then work out, social contacts and just being occupied. If it gets uncomfortable I will take 300mg Gabapentin only if it is really necessary.

So much for now.

 

[DickTate]

Hey, just a short update. Day 2 without opiates. Only 300mg Gabapentin in the morning and I feel pretty good. I exercised yesterday and today helped a friend to move his flat. I had 2 nights of insomnia but a little bud and now a beer may help.

So much for now. I think the stepping down via AH-7921 and then Kratom was pretty helpful. Definitely easier than quitting the Tilidine by itself.

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

Good news! Are you getting any w/d at all besides the insomnia? By insomnia, do you mean no sleep at all or just trouble getting to sleep? I wished I liked booze; it would come in handy right now, but yeah, a couple puffs of hippy hay helps somehow as it seems to in all things.
Me? I had 20 plus grams of kratom left so just kinda fell back into doing it everyday... great willpower OR I'm not really ready to quit. Only a few grams left now, so one more day and I guess I'm back on the wagon. Looks like I'm just going to jump from the kratom this time. Should be interesting.

 

[DickTate]

Good news! Are you getting any w/d at all besides the insomnia? By insomnia, do you mean no sleep at all or just trouble getting to sleep?

Last night was a lot rougher than expected. Chills, sweating and nearly impossible to sleep so I took a very low dose of Promethazine.
Now I feel pretty fine again but I am sure it will come back over the day and I dont want to take the Gaba regularly...
Unfortunately my Etiz are not arriving but maybe it is for the better. Got a job interview in one hour so I will hit the train.

Good luck to you again. It helps to write this down and have someone to exchange experiences

€dit: Etizolam arrived. 2mg sublingualed although I still feel ok without anything. But you know how it is...

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

I so totally fucked this whole thing up. It just seemed too easy and went right back on the dillies. Fucking junkie logic!
I ordered some more kratom and an gonna try this process over again.
Are you successfully avoiding that high lurking around the corner?
For myself, I'm really fearing that methadone will be a part of my future again.. maybe for life. My methadone doctor DID say I'd be back. Fuck me.
Once a junkie, always a junkie-- so they say. I don't want to believe that but reality is being a real bitch.

 

[DickTate]

Hey Benjo, sorry to hear that but I went a similar path after being "clean" for about one and a half week.
Had one last surprising access to Tilidine, then tried a low dose L-Polamidon because I never had that and it had to be tried! 8)
How stupid eh?
Now I have the rest half of a Subutex 8mg and some Etiz and Gabapentin to kick the 1mg I took the last days. But unfortunately no free time anymore so I have to function during the week :/

Will try it next weekend again (considering getting some Kratom again for the next week).

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

You too!? Oh no. That's too bad.
I really thinked the kratom helped a lot which is why I ordered some.. only enough to last a week this time; not a pound like before.
Should get it tuesday or so I'll update here.
Seems like a good thing for you to do would be to get the kratom to switch gears during the week and quit on the weekend, considering you have to stay functional.

Had one last surprising access to Tilidine, then tried a low dose L-Polamidon because I never had that and it had to be tried! 8)

I also had a similar thing happen.. In canada we just the past month got generic oxys which are just like the original that you can insufflate, not like the neos that have been here for the past year or so.
Had to try it again, of course. Did too many, of course.

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

About the gabapentin.. what kind of dosage do you think is good for fighting withdrawal? You just stick with the 300mgs once a day like you mentioned? I can't recall- did you say you get a script for it?
So you really do highly recommend this stuff? Not that I'm skeptical, but I just never feel a thing from it, so am really unsure just what it's doing.
I'm glad I'm not planning on Europe any time soon or I'd be screwed having to try all these foreign opioids and benzos that I have never heard of.
Do you get hydromorphone and oxycontin there?

 

[DickTate]

Morning,

Gabapentin helps tremendously with Opioid WD. I only take 300mg (maybe a second after 6-8h) and had a script for it. Now I'm down to 20 and have to rationate... Just because it doesn't get you very high (for some people) doesn't mean it will not help, in my opinion the difference without it is very recognizable.
I really recommend it or Lyrica but never had the latter and don't suggest to take them regularly.
And yeah we have both those opioids but I never tried one of them.