Heroin H, I don't get it..

[SaosinEngaged]

I'm a long time opiate user, peaking with usage that was in the ballpark of 300-400 mg of oxy per day. I've since tapered and have been only dosing oxy once per day (something I'm extremely proud of, given the excessive prior use) to the tune of 60-90mg in one dose.

Current oxy tolerance looks like this -

30mg - very mild buzz
60mg - decent buzz, no nod
90mg - comfortably high, slight and short nod
120mg - da nodz

This of course, is exactly why I love oxy so much. I know the effect if will have on me like the back of my hand. In 3-4 years of use i have never OD'd.

Enter dope. I've tried it before, but never really done enough to get much of a buzz from. I live in the northeast so all the stuff around here is potent north east powder. The stuff I used roughly 40-60% pure.

Say I do a match head size bump, by ten minutes I feel a noticeable depression in my breathing but no high of any sort. Maybe a slight mellowed sensation. Problem is, at this point I never want to do more because I already feel like my breathing Is depressed and I have no metric by which to gauge the effects. This is my problem, what is normal, what is not? Could I be allergic or sensitive to it in some way? I'd like to have one enjoyable session with it before I give up opiates for good ( and i can only get it once in a blue moon) but to be honest, I'm almost too damn scared of it to really attempt more. (Probably a good thing, but still) and I certainly still have a tolerance to opiates.

Funny thing, even when I do 120mg of oxy, I never feel respiratory depression like what has been accompanying even this small bump. And my pupils are still big. I don't know. H. I don't get you.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Unlike oxy, which is a prescription medication with each pill having a known strength (therefore the user is able to do the exact same dose and achieve the same effects) heroin is all over the map in terms of purity and quality. You say you got 40-60% pure dope but you have no way of knowing that unless you had a lab on hand and a chemist... the averages all say dope in one part of the country is whatever pure but the fact of the matter is you never know. The stuff you got could have been garbage.

If this is where your heroin experimentation stops, you'd be doing yourself a favor...

With opiates and heroin in particular, it can take a few uses before one gets accustomed to its affects and finds the proper dose. The key is to start small and work your way up until you reach your desired feeling. But keep in mind it's much stronger than oxy and the risks are much greater.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Subjectively I think there is a lot more resp. depression when sniffing or injecting H compared to oxycodone (not so when eating oxycodone though, again imho).

However, as Scags says, dope (heroin) isn't a pharmaceutical preparation like the oxycodone you have is. Could be a cut. Could be the rather inherent inconsistency of highly illegal highly profitable street drugs. Could be the nature of your specific body and subtle differences between how you metabolize heroin v oxycodone. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it could also be that you're still in that "honeymoon" phase of opioid use/addiction/dependency (for me this was the first 2-2.5 years since I first realized how much I enjoyed them, although it varies from person to person) - it's amazing how one's body can chance once one gets over this period, and it's hardly all positive... Could be also or combo of the above...

Speaking toward how familiar/unfamiliar you are with dope v oxycodone, I certainly found dope a lot more sedating than oxycodone at first too, with a lot of the positive "opiate" effects much more subtle at the low doses of dope we all should start with.

Generally speaking, especially because when I got into dope I had already gotten used to (not a habit, just familiar) with the effects of oxycodone and similar thebaine derived pharmaceutical opioids (whereas, while very similar, heroin is also very difference).

Compared to others, I always seems to find thebaine based/derived/whatever opioids slightly less sedating/more stimulating (relatively speaking, very slightly) than others, but this could just be me...

 

[SumthinSumthin]

i often use pupilary constriction as a decent measure of how much is too much. I know, not accurately reliable, but after a while and experience you can tell the "normal"-opiate miosis from that of "too much"-opiate miosis. Pretty much all pupil constriction does is tell that you've ingested an overly-analgesic dose of an opiate, as from what I understand an optimal therapeutic dose would not cause complete constriction, just pupil unreactivity to light. 60 to 90mg of oxy is a fairly high dose imo, as I personally get nods right at 60mg, although it usually takes me only about .15 to .2 of insuflatted h to get there depending on quality of product. Thats why it is difficult to provide an answer to this, as dope is always ALWAYS of varying quality.

Be Safe!!

 

[down508]

your dope could be low purity, could be high purity, could be inactive. quit while your ahead. if you don't even like the effects whats the point of doing more. whatever you do don't start upping your dose to try to "figure out" the drug.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I'll tell you what you need to "figure out" about H... it ruins fucking lives and if you keep doing it, chances are it'll ruin yours too.

Take that advice and put thoughts of that crap aside. Not worth it.

 

[SumthinSumthin]

^ Yep, what these fellows said, don't mess with it if you haven't already let it get you. Pharmaceutical grade tablets/opiates are one thing, but really man h starts to become something terrible. I've seen a friend spill his "solution" on the kitchen floor of someones house and then he sucked it up into the syringe and shot anyways. Makes ya do stupid things and take the most arbitrary risks. Not really worth it in the long run, as that high or rush doesn't last forever and its never as good as it was before. Quit while you are ahead is the general consensus here. Or at least just stick to oxys (that you know how much you are ingesting, and is not cut with who knows what).

 

[Jabberwocky]

Regarding the extreme some of us will/have gone to while using dope, yup, it doesn't lend itself to the healthiest of lifestyles. This shouldn't be news to anyone though, we all (I imagine) have heard plenty of junkie horror stories, for better (and worse).

Well, it certainly has a bad rap, heroin I mean... certainly playing with fire, but - not that it makes things any better using it irl - in my experience using heroin the most significant damage done has been not the drug itself (in any pharmacological sense) but how the drug and people who use it are marginalized/demonized... Like I said, such an epiphany doesn't make life strung out any easier (and the fact that I'm not such a huge fan of heroin - never was, never will be - might also be telling).

BTW, rereading the OP, I see he/she's been using for a number of years, so the honeymoon thing doesn't apply.

TBH, objectively speaking, I don't think the OP is any better off with a 120mg habit than with a (relatively) small dope habit. The OP would certainly be doing him/herself a favor if this was where the heroin experimentation ended, but at the same time things aren't all that great off needing 120mg of oxycodone to get a good high. Not saying there aren't people out there who'd need 4-10x as much, just that the situation is far from ideal.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I'd like to have one enjoyable session with it before I give up opiates for good

Said every opiate addict ever

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yup, famous last words in fact

Try and stick to one enjoyable session of your DOC, if you can, as that'll be enough of a feat in itself! Good luck OP!

 

[XThexXTank]

Ima have to say 'a match head size bump' is not enough to get high. Ya prob mite feel somethin off that with no tollerance but ya got a bit of tollerance so ya gotta do more.

Idk if yer allergic I mean I don't think so. Also I never really compared the respitory depression from pills n dope. Its an opiate so yeh yer breathin will slow but I m pretty sure you can safely do more w/out havin any problems.

 

[down508]

^ Yep, what these fellows said, don't mess with it if you haven't already let it get you. Pharmaceutical grade tablets/opiates are one thing, but really man h starts to become something terrible. I've seen a friend spill his "solution" on the kitchen floor of someones house and then he sucked it up into the syringe and shot anyways. Makes ya do stupid things and take the most arbitrary risks. Not really worth it in the long run, as that high or rush doesn't last forever and its never as good as it was before. Quit while you are ahead is the general consensus here. Or at least just stick to oxys (that you know how much you are ingesting, and is not cut with who knows what).

ya as insane as this sounds I would totally do that, and I'm really not big into h. back when i was using if i spilled it into an ashtray I would have shot it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ima have to say 'a match head size bump' is not enough to get high. Ya prob mite feel somethin off that with no tollerance but ya got a bit of tollerance so ya gotta do more.

First time I used H, without any tolerance, I couldn't have done more than this. It was good ECP though. No rush or anything, don't get me wrong, I had no idea what I'd get out of it until like 45 min in (at which point I was good and high, not nodding but very, very high, for the next 12hrs - awesome night, all n' all). Mind you, like I said, not tolerance/habit at the time and it was probably between .05 and .025g of some moderate to high quality ECP

 

[down508]

Said every opiate addict ever

so true. the mind doesn't think "I'm going to do heroin for the rest of my life every day" although I'm sure some people think that, its more like "i'm going to use it one more time before I quit forever because I want to fully experience it". that's classic right there. same reason why people blow through a weeks supply in a night, because when it comes to drugs many people aren't very capable of seeing past their next high. in my opinion every time you do heroin it becomes that much harder to stop, from the first dose to the second to the hundredth. you're going to do what you want to do, but you should at least be able to recognize what thoughts are yours and what thoughts are the drug convincing you to do more. be safe man, it sounds like your probably not doing enough, which is good. it means you will have a much easier time turning back if you choose to do so. you mentioned that you felt like your breathing was depressing, that's because it was. if you felt that at the dose you described (sounded like 15-20mg or less) then you could be very sensitive to morphine and its derivatives. that should give you an idea of what's to come if you keep using heroin.

I'm not someone who's never done h and is just repeating what I've read on here. I've seen heroin do disturbing things to people, myself included. I've lost friends, I've been out cold for the better part of a half hour, suffering god knows what kind of damage to my brain. and I mean out cold, as in so cold that when i got narcaned I was shaking so violently in the ambulance I not only chipped my tooth, but the emts thought I was having a seizure. h is such a good feeling, but such a sickening drug in what it does to people. save yourself the misery, I shouldnt even be saying this because painkillers aren't much better, but if you must do an opioid stick with the oxys, and stick with a dose you know. prescription painkillers come in dosages you can generally count on, and few cause such extreme respiratory depression as heroin (with exceptions of course, fentanyl and i.v. oxymorphone being a few of them). without getting into prices it should be noted that generally heroin is less damaging to your wallet than painkillers (at first), so if you're used to say (I'm just throwing out a random number, doesn't relate to any specific amount of pills or heroin, fill in the blanks for yourself this is a thought exercise) 100 dollars worth of x prescription painkiller at once, and bought 100 dollars worth of heroin and did that at once the chances of you surviving are very low.

anyways all that is just something to consider while deciding whether to do more h or not. realize that pretty much every dope addict on this board has said "I just want to do one last good session before I give them up" before. some of them didn't live past that session, and I'd bet the rest of them had plenty more sessions after that. so whatever you decide I wish you the best. I didn't mean to bombard you, but it's hard seeing someone going down the same path I went down when I got started and knowing there isn't much you can say to change there minds. if you decide to stick with it then you can still greatly reduce the harm you do by asking plenty of questions like the one you just asked on this forum.

 

[SaosinEngaged]

Thank you guys so very much for the awesome, in depth advice. You guys are like a warm blanket to comfort oneself when they're alone and without all the answers (...).

I know how cliche it sounds to say I'm not planning on starting an H habit, but I don't even have access to it. I'd say the opportunity arises for me to get it maybe once every four or five months.

This was more curiosity than anything else. And yeah, I'm fairly positive I'd need more of a dose to feel "good" effects, however I was pointing out that I was feeling marked and noticeable respiratory depression off even a matchhead bump. So, and perhaps I'm a worry wort, it stood to reason in my mind that doing more could become dangerous. I'm really not exaggerating when I say the respiratory depression I felt off a match head size bump was greater than the r.d I notice on moderate to high doses of Oxy. This was alarming to me. And I really just wanted to figure out of this sounds "normal" for the drug, or if I might be sensitive to morphine types (which admittedly I have very little experience with).

I have a very healthy level of respect for this drug, as well as the appropriate fear, for I've no desire to perish before my time. However, I have to say it again, it would be nice to at least have my money spent be worthwhile. I'd like to at least think I can find some reasonably safe middle ground.

I'm still a bit too "iffy" to try again. I'd really like to go ahead and do "two" bumps next time, but I'm thinking about it now and I'm pretty sure I'd give myself a panic attack. I'm not familiar with feeling respiratory depression because, for my body, Oxycodone simply has never done that to me in any real marked way. I've been prescribed Dilauded (hydromorphone) in the past, and even that didn't cause me to obsess over my breathing (and I snorted it, but truly, I hated Dilauded...I think that one's only for IV, at least in my case).

The idea of the chemical is so very appealing, however the unknown purity and god-knows-what cuts make me very, nigh, extremely apprehensive about proceeding.

I know this is another vague and difficult to answer question, but in general, how rare is it to come across H that a dealer has cut with something dangerous? Such as quinine, certainly Fentanyl (I can't imagine, may as well put a desert eagle in my mouth and pull the trigger), etc.

Thank you all so much.

 

[blight12]

My first H, the shitty stuff smallest line was more then anything else, nod worthy. But nobody can blame you for being careful with the shit. I even get paranoid with a codeine CWE even though 400mg does jack shit, but still enough apac to kill me. H killed my tolerance, just doing it twice.

Honestly, I would more comfortably take stupid volumes of stims but still treat opiates with care. Dont fuk with opiates, the shit terrifies me.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

This was more curiosity than anything else. And yeah, I'm fairly positive I'd need more of a dose to feel "good" effects, however I was pointing out that I was feeling marked and noticeable respiratory depression off even a matchhead bump. So, and perhaps I'm a worry wort, it stood to reason in my mind that doing more could become dangerous. I'm really not exaggerating when I say the respiratory depression I felt off a match head size bump was greater than the r.d I notice on moderate to high doses of Oxy. This was alarming to me. And I really just wanted to figure out of this sounds "normal" for the drug, or if I might be sensitive to morphine types (which admittedly I have very little experience with).

Heroin does cause more respiratory depression than oxycodone. Cross tolerance to euphoria can be higher than cross tolerance to respiratory depression as well, I've noticed when switching to a new opioid, especially switching to morphine or heroin from a synthetic opioid, I noticed far more respiratory depression at doses that were equivalent for euphoria or analgesia. So experiencing more noticeable respiratory depression from heroin than oxy may be "normal" but that doesn't make it safe. There is a small margin or error between high and dead with heroin, that window is more narrow than with some other opioids. I wouldn't ignore the respiratory depression, even if taking more wouldn't kill you the anxiety would probably ruin your high and you'd be afraid to go to sleep.

I know this is another vague and difficult to answer question, but in general, how rare is it to come across H that a dealer has cut with something dangerous? Such as quinine, certainly Fentanyl (I can't imagine, may as well put a desert eagle in my mouth and pull the trigger), etc.

It's really about luck, and also where you're getting it and who from. As you said, it's very difficult to answer as it's not like we can give you a probability figure for getting dope with a dangerous cut. I have had heroin with coke in it a number of times, which was really bad for me because I had a huge tolerance to heroin and no tolerance to cocaine and I was injecting it. One time landed me in the hospital from a cocaine OD. I have had dope that was mostly acetaminophen. I have been sold "heroin" that had no heroin in it. I have had dope with morphine in it. I have no idea if I've ever had dope that was actually fentanyl, it's possible, since if it was heavily cut and therefore not deadly potent it would be hard to tell and I'd probably would've just thought it was some strange short-lasting dope or attributed the difference in effects to my tolerance or something. I've had heroin that was way more pure than usual, which made me stop breathing (luckily I had a friend there who called 911). As for stuff like quinine I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised. Bottom line is you really never know what you're getting or how pure it is, which is very dangerous.

 

[SteeleyJ]

It's pretty much all been said but personally after using quality heroin for awhile I never really looked back......everything except one or two other pharm opiates became something to fall back on but not preference.

Possibly see if you can source another place for dope to get a good idea of the dope you're getting and other dope in the same area.



In the sense of harm reduction though, i say stay where you are....... many a person will tell you once they got on heroin it was the beginning of the end and things went to hell. You've obviously had an opiate habit before with the oxy doses......the morphine types are ruthless man.

 

[Pagey]

Maybe it's also because you were expecting a high similar to the oxy one? Oxy and heroin highs are very different, with the latter being much more subtle I think and giving a less powerful nod. It also affects your breathing considerably more.
If you didn't feel any high at all though, I'm pretty sure you must just have gotten some crap heroin. In any case, take this as a positive initiative not to try dope again...be thankful you didn't fall in love with it, seriously.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

be thankful you didn't fall in love with it, seriously.

Amen to that.